Zero frame throw?

Like i said, i dunno how much grab animation actually has to do with 0f throws. I used to mostly think of them as "throws that will never clash", but i'm not so sure about that either. In the jacky example above, if i delay 6k+g perfectly, i can get it to clash if i do it right before (or right as?) the throw would have hit. Buffering it never clashes.

I think in order to test whether long-range throws can be 0f i'd have to finally get around to wiring up my second controller to the arduino. The idea would be on frame 100 (or whatever) player 1 pushes p+g, and on frame 101 player 2 pushes d+P ? I can do that but it will be a while before i have free time to do some soldering.

At any rate, I think for the original question, the practical application remains the same - find situations for your character (or motions that waste exactly 10 frames) in order to do throws that can't be fuzzied / are harder to throw escape on reaction.

 

I'm not understanding this too well /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif

Anyone explain why I can get a zero frame back throw after Akiras 43p+g? Is it cause my opponents are expecting the guaranteed 3k or dblplm follow up so they don't input anything or is something else happening?

 

ha it still seems like we're all in this together in terms of trying to understand/explain 0f throws.

For that matter why is it you get a 0F throw after a K~G? KoD what do you mean by waste less than 10 frames. You mean putting yourself at +10 frames or -10 frames? concept of wasting frames doesnt' really make all that much sense to me.

 

K~G has nothing to do with it. Its just one way to waste time (not very good one). The point is that after a connected (hit or blocked) move by either player there is a 10 frame window within which 0f throws cannot occur. So in order to do 0f throws you must wait until that window is over. How you waste 10 frames is up to you. K~G is too slow to be used in those tight delay-10f-to-combo-throw situations, but can be used to make opponent evade fail,kill fuzzy etc.

For example Eileen has P+K which is +12 on normal hit. After a normal hit you can delay exactly 10 frames and do a 0f throw on your opponent which will "combo" because its 0 frames and the throw will hit that 2 frame window when opponent is still under hitstun. K~G cannot be used for this cause it takes much more than 10 frames. Just try dash and do the delay by feel.

ps. I didnt know backthrows can be 0frames.. Akiras RBC is +11 according to movelist, so theres one frame window to do 0f throw I guess.

 

ah I get it now. If your opponent isn't doing anything 10f after a hit/garded move then you get a 0f throw?

 

Hypothesis was that throwing as you turn from backturned ignores the 10f safety window, ie it's another exception to add to the list. I had the throw command completed on the 6th (or 7th frame depending on how you think about it). 2 frames of d+g, + 2 empty frames, + 2 frames of p+g, + 1 empty. Yet it was still a zero frame throw. Or at least a throw that didn't normally clash, had no grab animation, and couldn't be ducked at -5 /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Srider mentioned this in regards to kage 4k at least a year ago as I recall, and I think he got shat on for it.

 

No, I'm not forgetting to add 6 frames for turning. The 6 frames for turning starts with the initial 2g input, you don't turn around automatically.

B == backturned F == front.

1234567890
BBBBBBFFFF
GG--GG----
DD--PP----

Also, if the throw was active on the 12th or 13th frame, you'd be able to duck it, which you can't.

If you want to think about it as backturned lets you buffer a throw in that will automatically come out at the end of the 10 frame safety window, thats fine, but the result is the same.

I'm doing 2 frames because in general 2 frame inputs are much more reliable than 1 frame.

 

10 frame safety window preventing YOU from doing a 0f throw starts when YOU leave stun, not at when your opponent leaves stun. If I walk up with lau and do 3P+K at close range and its guarded, I'm at -15. If I throw immediately after leaving stun, more than 10 frames have gone by since my opponent left stun, but it will not be a 0f throw. I have to delay in order to get the Of throw. (cpu opponent just standing there and guarding for example)

As far as I know, 2G turns you around faster than G does. Or maybe its just ingrained habit from doing 1 motion to start either fuzzy or 0f throw from backturned.

 

I. afaik most characters cant just do P+G from backturned unless its actually one of their moves, they'll get a backturned punch or something instead.

II. I don't know if throwing from a crouch is instant or not. I don't think this is a good context to test it, let me know if you think of an isolated way.

III. In this situation, I'm usually fuzzying anyway, so a throw after fuzzying will naturally beat a throw attempt whiff. Dunno about doing it as fast as possible, can test it later.

As for technical vs practical . . . I don't play kage or jacky, but from the little bit I've played lau, P4P gets me 0 frame throw from backturned very reliably. People don't fuzzy it, the way they would with jab ~ throw, and its a hell of a lot easier to input than jab (waste exact frames) throw.

Like I said in my first post when this thread got resurrected, exact mechanics (exception to the rule, or reliable way to waste exactly enough frames) are interesting. . . but however it works, it's more important to know that it does work, and where it works.

 

Just watched a video with edo vs haijin

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif CH > turns around > TOO YAWWWWWWWWWWWWWW 0f throw.

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1:30

 

you actually can still fuzzy in ver C while backturned. with eileen you can do it after her 4K+G or K+G which leaves her backturned.

 

If you are playing people with very good defense then 0f throw becomes important, imo.

 

How does that work? You duck under a throw and get up just in time to eat an elbow to the back or to the side? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

 

doesn't look 0 frame to me? :?