yet more movies

I'm sure the K part wouldn't be a combo, but Kage's punches seem to have lost range and perhaps slower. He didn't have that much advantage after the PPb+P, if at all. The PPb+P also worked against the Wolf, not sure how many times though.

alantan, thanks, that was an interesting bit of insight.

 

I think it's only the first... not for KD's. Of course 90% of the time if you got a KD, you got a MC also so there's the yellow flash.

 

Re: PPb+P, it's hard to tell due to the graininess of the flick, but in the newer movie listed in VF4 movie warehouse, Kage does a PPb+PK vs. Akira and it looks like the second punch hits and the helix misses. I could be wrong, it's hard to tell.

 

> I checked: b,b+K+G -> TT d+P -> d+K is closer to d/f+K+G.

That's all fine and dandy, but I was responding to what you originally wrote, dink:

"Oh cool, I was wondering about how there was no dodge animation. The d+P looks almost as if it could take off as much damage as the d/f+K+G! (Or no?)"

And so, again...no.

> What do you mean by cat?

Spam, like your post about the speed.

 

Uhm, I was agreeing with you...geez, people can be so sensitive.

What's the male equivalent of PMS again? Oh yeah, where's your cat.

 

These movies are GREAT for Kage users. Basically, a Kage won the tournament, unless the site renamed the files incorrectly and the semi-final match against the Jeffry is a final one (semi -> Jeffry vs Kage, Jeffry won; final -> Kage vs Wolf, Kage won).

Pico's Kage defeated BunBunMaru's Wolf in the final match of the preliminaries on Oct 7.
Part 1 of the G2 Tournament had Jeffry in 1st place, Rudder 's Jacky 2nd, and Pico's Kage in 3rd (bleh) on Oct 12.

Good matches to download and watch, though I get the feeling that the overall level of competition was a little lower than we've seen in the Kanispo clips(?). Anyway, archived all three clips under "Hibarigaoka Field Tournament" in VF4fx.

 

offtopic, but I've meant to ask since forever: when I close or move the cute little html windows on your media page, is there a way to make the site remember the fact that I did so?

 

Unfortunately, nope. Unless I were to code cookies into the HTML and pass along window info to your browser.

(Might be worth looking into if I have the time, but I just found out that SVGL has ver.B, so...)

 

Just some clarrification. after a b,b,K+G the opponent CANNOT tech roll.

Opponent also can't TR after a follow up d+K from Kage. That's the end of the combo.

But after a d+p(instead of d+k), opponent can TR. I think it's because d+p sort of "float" the opponent a bit.

I dont think a df,K+G is used to punish a Tech Roll cos you cant TR after the first b,b,K+G. In fact after a b,b,K+G , opponent goes down "slowly" which was why there was enough time to turn ard and do a df,K+G.

BTW, a b,b,K+G -> G, df,K+G and a b,b,K+G -> d+k causes almost the same damage with the first combo slightly more, i think the difference is less than a high punch.

Folks, please correct me if i'm wrong. i'll be damned if i used Kage for so long and still do not understand how it works.

 

I actually I am 99% sure I can TR your follow up d+K cuz I ate that like so many times.

Anyway my original post did not mean using the b,b+K+G to punish the tech roll. Okay my english not very good. The point is if you use d+k as followup, basically your opponent do not need to TR as you cannot do anything else. In fact, even if he TR he recovers around the same time as you so there is NO advantage.

d/f+k+g recovers VERY fast and there is the threat of further followup if you do not TR I think. The whole point is that Kage is in a stronger position after d/f+k+g than d+k and maybe better than d+p (never seen that move often)

 

Yeap, against CPU i think it can get up immediately after d,k but i need to confirm that's a TR and not a normal recovery.

 

bb+K+G
After this move you cause a crumple allowing enough time for followups. d+K is the easiest, but you can hold G to turn around quickly for a follow-up. The easiest IMO is DP. The df+K+G requires better timing. Finally you can do ub+K+G but it doesn't always connect, perhaps it is stance or range dependant. If you do d+P the Opponent can TR always.

df+P
Slow execution but it is Kage's main float starter and damage move apart from TFT. D,f+P only allows follow-ups when MC on LW or wall hits. The uf+K is only really useful for wall hit combos or a uncounterable quick attack. You can no longer d+K+G into ff+K or fF+K. Basically Kage needs to throw a df+P into the mix to do any kind or real damage against aggressive types who TE the TFT, ie everyone. But alas the slow execution and low priority of df+P limits its uses.

Here are some df+P combos
df+P - P - d+P+K - d+PKK
df+P - PPK (Wall Hit) - ub+K+G (upto MW I think)
df+P - PPb+PK (LW)
df+P - PPPb+K (WH) - DP (Doable on everyone I think)
df+P - P - d+P - ub+K+G (Stance dependant do DP if unsure)

Currently I think Kage is alot weaker in VF4. He doesn't have enough crumple and float start attacks, and the ones he does have are not as useful. TFT is weaker, less damaging and toned down Ring Out, and the multiple TE mean people generally get out of his best throws, the TFT and SE.

Also combos like TFT - Knee - P - db+PPb+PK (WH) - DP take less than Jeffrys f+K - KKP or Akiras SDE or HCB+P - b,f,f+P+K. In fact I don't think there is any TFT combo that takes 50% as easily without a wall/ light character and finger dexterity!

I'm not suprised Jeffry won the tournament, followed by Jacky. Heck even Kyasao has 3000+ wins with his Jacky, and he's one of the better Kage users.

Let me know your thoughts Kage followers

 

General question: is back dashing with your back towards the opponent still executed the same way as VF3?

I think the fact that Kyasao's Kage is the strongest is a big testament of where AM2 wants Kage to be. The one thing that I've always loved about Kyasao's Kage in VF3 is how efficient and clean his Kage is...he rarely "pokes" at all, especially compared to the many PPP, PETE, heelkick and CDP VF3 Kages out there. VF4 Kage seems like a Kage where his normal moves aren't good enough to mash/poke like you can with Pai and Jacky...you have to play the ninja more carefully, and this lends perfectly to Kyasao's style.

 

"General question: is back dashing with your back towards the opponent still executed the same way as VF3?"

Yes if you mean buffering the back dash into the turn around animation. No if you mean holding guard taping b,B then releasing guard. Hitting the guard button at all will turn you around in VF4.

 

You're on crack, dude. Kyasao pokes with the best of them. Always has. Hell, he does it in the VF4 movies he's in - PG,PG,elbow / PG,elbow / d+P,elbow / PG,elbow,throw all are done _repeatedly_. Watch those movies (they're at VF4x, ikebukuro tournament) and then try saying that he "rarely pokes" again. Uh huh. Riiiiiiggght.

 

Rich, I have those clips too. I also have/seen Kyasao in almost all the VF3 tapes he has appeared in. Hmm, damn, I've even played the guy PERSONALLY in Kani-spo Japan...several times. I do think I know him pretty well.

And, obviously he does some "poking," if you can even call the flowcharts that he does that. But compare him to other Kages...Skeleton, Yamiyodare, etc...much cleaner.

 

The latter is what I mean. How do you back dash with you back to the opponent then?

 

> if you can even call the flowcharts that he does that.

Putting a PG or two before almost HALF the moves he does is NOT poking? WTF!

 

You do it with the first method I mentioned or you dont do it in VF4. Although I'll admit I could be missing something. I have played VF4 very exstensively since it showed up here in Omaha and it seems almost every button and or attack in VF4 turns you around.

 

OK Rich, just for you I went back and watched those clips again. In the Yamiyodare clip, he only P(G)ed once or twice in the entire match. In the Joh clip, he did P(G) -> elbow a lot more in the first two rounds only, but it's kinda funny how the P often MCed and how the elbow often staggered eh?

That's about as factual as this discussion is going to get, I think. Based from what I've seen and from the times that I've played him, I'm sticking by my statement.