Wolf's weak points (Formerly in FT Wolf Thread)

Re: Additional points, and use of Screwhook in combos...

In another word it's only possible in theory and not applicable in game. So i ask you Mr. Wizard... why are you arguing against something you practice yourself?

 

Re: Additional points, and use of Screwhook in combos...

he doesnt practice it, he only gets away with it.. /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

Re: Additional points, and use of Screwhook in combos...

myke, I don't know what kind of gay sex agreement you had with ass-9 but a man of your statue should not be agruing for agruement's sake. The fact that you said " I get a way with it " means that you practice it. The same could be said.. O well b+p is hard to TR therefore we are gonna count as a real combo because we can only avoid it 1/2 of the time.. It's the same arguement just switching sides. ok? How can you even start to compare the DFS with anything Wolf has is beyond the realm of reality.. I'm not even going to go to the stats of the move, but god ass-9 must be a real good cocksucker to get your brain all out of wack.
Ass-9 , SiYkO, Jerky, Myke and Kiwe and the rest of you motherfuckers who never played Wolf yet insisting on adding your two cents here, why don't you go practice your pseudo-intellectualism and suck each other's cock somewhere else? Make a thread named "why's Kage so weak" or some shit. I just realized all the fags on vfdc play kage.

 

Re: Additional points, and use of Screwhook in combos...

I thought it went without saying that if you could get your ass kicked by one anticroucher move (low throw) you could loose to another (mid attack) as long as it's timed well enough. The obvious problem Dandy as I see it between mixing up between KG-Cancel > throw and lowthrow would be you would get your ass handed to you everytime the opponent chose to attack you (abare) and not be purely on the defence after the TR with everything from a to a launcher.
Btw shouldn't we differentiate between "real" fuzzy gaurding and simply moving between high and low (can be pretty confusing for newcomers)?

Myke; I find it intresting as hell to force ppl to time their midattacks better. Is there anyway to actually practice this quick "fuzzy" from TR's in training?



/KiwE (Btw Dandy plays Kage aswell Sunshine Shang).

 

Re: Additional points, and use of Screwhook in combos...

Thanks Myke for helping me explain the fuzzy guard thing out of QR/TR...I wasn't sure I had the strength to sway the unbelievers. Not like there are benefits anyway!!

A few things:

- Catch throws are especially brilliant in QR/TR games because they have a longer throw window to overlap the moment that opponents stand up. Most catch throws, however, are slow enough that you can react instinctively...thankfully, Wolf's + is fast. There is no fuzzy guarding in QR/TR, and there is certainly no chance against Wolf's catch/stunner nitaku game.

- C'mon Dandy, don't tell me you can "see" the execution phase of a stunner and react on sight. If you do, let me congratulate you ahead of time as the strongest VF player on the planet...because that means you can't get hit by anything slower than a stunner.

- BK, let me ask you this: if stunner executed at 1-frame, do you think it's a good move? Assume damage potential and recovery is the same. Well, that's essentially what a stunner at a QR/TR situation is--timed right, a 1-frame attack that the defender must guess.

- Shang, you are both irritating and funny as hell. VFDC certainly won't be the same without you. My Wolf is what it is. I think these posts already show the difference in philosphy between the two of us. You want a Wolf that can attack like Akira. I'm happy with Wolf as Wolf.

 

Re: Additional points, and use of Screwhook in combos...

[ QUOTE ]
Ass-9 , SiYkO, Jerky, Myke and Kiwe and the rest of you motherfuckers who never played Wolf yet insisting on adding your two cents here, why don't you go practice your psuedo-intellectualism and suck each other's cock somewhere else? Make a thread named "why's Kage so weak" or some shit.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've already created the AOL chat room *giggle* Let's go boys! ~ ~

Seriously, shut up and grow a pair.... enough of this "pseudo" (*e*udo, learn how to spell) machismo based on the fact that you can't play Wolf the way YOU want to...

Jesus, it's like trying to quiet down a younger sibling. You are older than me correct? Fucking act your age for christs sake.

Edit: Oh yes, yes... forgot to add: PWNED~

 

Re: Additional points, and use of Screwhook in combos...

kage sux cuz in teh walld stages TFT is underpowrd

 

Re: Additional points, and use of Screwhook in combos...

ass-9 when people call you a fucking moron do it find it irritating or funny? here is something funny... i doubt you can get 25% vs bk, dannyj or myself with your "i'm happy with wolf" wolf. Keep on hiding behind your kage and your "i paid for vfdc" tag..

And jerky, I know you are still mad about our last nyc trip, I know you are still mad because you didn't place as high as me in evo, I know you are still mad because my 3rd tier character (aoi) raped u, I know you are still mad because i made a fool out of you at spotlite's. well, i'm not sorry, because getting you to play vf is harder than pull teeth. if you suck that's because you are lazy, you lack committment. blame yourself. and please go learn b+p tr, siyko can tr that shit 50+% after just 10 min of testing.. so please do the world a favor and just S T F U.

 

Re: Additional points, and use of Screwhook in combos...

Shrug...I guess we'll see!

 

Re: Additional points, and use of Screwhook in combos...

[ QUOTE ]
ice-9 said:

Shrug...I guess we'll see!

[/ QUOTE ]

Ass-9 finally STFU thank god!
OWNED!

 

Re: Additional points, and use of Screwhook in combos...

KiwE - kg cancel throw/low throw is not a mixup! Not an effective one, anyway. They are bothare used to beat fuzzy guard, because you can't stand up in time against the low throw, and the kg cancel makes you react and stand up against a high throw. An abare player will not fuzzy.

You guys are talking about fuzzy in total theory. I'm talking about fuzzy how real people do it. You're saying that if you want to fuzzy after a TR, then you have to be crouching for at least a frame after you recover. Not true. Maybe in theory, but not in the real world.

If I'm TRing and trying to fuzzy, I'm watching the opponent. If I see them dash in and do something, I'm going to stand up, even if my TR recovery wasn't finished yet. I'm not going to be paying attention at all to my recovery out of the TR.

So IRL, if I'm fuzzying out of a TR, I may actually release before my TR is over, if I see the opponent doing something.

 

Re: Additional points, and use of Screwhook in combos...

[ QUOTE ]
ice-9 said:
- Catch throws are especially brilliant in QR/TR games because they have a longer throw window to overlap the moment that opponents stand up. Most catch throws, however, are slow enough that you can react instinctively...thankfully, Wolf's + is fast. There is no fuzzy guarding in QR/TR, and there is certainly no chance against Wolf's catch/stunner nitaku game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude did you read my post? You can stand up into that catch throw with the same timing as fuzzying a 14/15 frame move, and it will whiff! The opponent has to be totally scared shitless of a mid to stand up that early to be caught by the catch throw.

Sraight up catch throw is not going to work against fuzzy, unless the person is just timing it and not paying any attention to what you're doing. kg cancel catch would work, but then you might as well do kg cancel throw.

Straight up catch throw is much better suited to beat backdash or EDTEG, since those make you stand up immediately and you can't escape catches.

 

Re: Additional points, and use of Screwhook in combos...

Dandy:
at this point it's obvious that ass, myke kiwe and their alikes are not in this for any kind of discussion. It's a pretty simple point, unless they can time the toekick that it becomes unblockable at the of end of the TR, you can fuzzy it. Saying you don't have to look at the opponent when you are TRing is the most retarded thing I've ever heard from someone with the amount of experience as ass-9. From a practical point of point f+pg is only useful beating dodge throw escapes. Yes it will beat some attacks that execute in stand position, but it's really not worth it even for wolf's standards. While ass-9 glorify the awesomeness of f+pg, it really isn't THAT good. If you missed you are pretty much fucked, and if it lands you chances are you get a 50 point reward. As find myself repeatly need to repeat myself but if escaped wolf takes damage and is at -1. Against people who fuzzy guards well you are going to end up whiffing the f+pg over the person's head many times, and you are pretty much dead when that happens. The only strength of wolf when fight TRs is he strong low throws, good reward big risk. The problem occurs when people just focus on beating your throws, stupid shit like wake up buffered backdash, this will fuck up a lots of your shit. etc etc. So basically the msg is still the same.. fuck all you motherfuckers who think you know some wolf shit yet never played wolf seriously in your life. Keep jerking on Kage's cock cuz that's all you are good at.

ADD: ONLY A FUCKING MORON WOULD DO F+PG ON TR ALL THE TIME... a fucking moron like ass-9 who is a 7th dan in Japan!

 

Re: Additional points, and use of Screwhook in combos...

[ QUOTE ]
- BK, let me ask you this: if stunner executed at 1-frame, do you think it's a good move? Assume damage potential and recovery is the same. Well, that's essentially what a stunner at a QR/TR situation is--timed right, a 1-frame attack that the defender must guess.

[/ QUOTE ]


1. how does this affect your choice game? it just means the opponent makes their choice sooner.. or not even that, just make a choice period.

2. what i meant anyway is that both those variations if failed give big reward for the opponent, and that is a common danger to wolf. i'm not saying it's unusable.. i just mean on the whole, it's less wise to structure a wolf gameplan around a 2 choice setup with that much risk.

3. i'm not even sure why you posted the info about the toe stunner when i clearly agreed that it can be an effective wake up move for the occasional mix-up. just like any risky hit with big reward.

4. i'll declare (again) that i wasnt even talking about TRs in the first place, i thought the discussion was on get-up risers. but i reckon some of the fundamenals can still have some relevence on it.

btw, i have no beef^^*

 

Re: Additional points, and use of Screwhook in combos...

Delaying standing? I don't follow. I was talking about going from +[] to [] before the hit frame of the mid attack.

This will block it, no?

 

Re: Additional points, and use of Screwhook in combos...

i'm not totally familiar with the TR rules... and your use of 'guranteed' low throw scares me. You can still attack out of it, no?

I see what you're saying about a well timed mid attack, it is within the attacker's power to connect with the 17th frame of the TKS, or the 8th frame of a throw, against the same part of the opponent's techroll, making fuzzy guarding only applicable with yomi or watching the animation. Nothing like fuzzying at -2. But what confuses me is when the opponent goes from to . What are the rules during this time? Everything still the same as crouching?

Like.. Kage does (guarded) and hold [n]. I should know this, but will a throw connect? Will a low throw?

Also, what is this talk of unblockable after TR? First I thought it was possible to get an unlblockable mid after TR, then i heard no, and tested and couldn't do it, so accepted it as a no, now yes? /versus/images/graemlins/confused.gif /versus/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

Re: Additional points, and use of Screwhook in combos...

If Kage's + is blocked and he holds , a low throw will connect. A normal throw will not. It takes several frames to go from crouching to standing, I'm guessing 6 or 7.

But guarding against attacks doesn't work the same way. If I'm holding + at the 13th frame of your elbow, then shift to on the 14th frame, I will block the elbow. It's the same with blocking lows. It may take 7 frames to go from standing to crouching against a throw, but I have until the last frame to hit + and guard a sweep.