Wolf's weak points (Formerly in FT Wolf Thread)

Re: Wolf: Final Tuned

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Jerky said:

Edit: mod delete my post. Continue with the thread.

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Jerky you might as well just say: "I got owned, Mod please erase what I said that made me looked like an idiot noobie!"

 

I want a squeeky toy to name it Shang.

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Explain to me why tks is better than jacky's hit throw in ANY WAY fucking noobie!

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And I said damage and speed which is correct, hence you are clowned right?

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do you realize it only reverses highkicks???

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You didn't believe me when I said it was 52dmg on the irc, which was the point. Just as you didn't believe you could exakt recover akis reversals correct to bring down damage right? Is it fun trying to change focus of stuff all the time?

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You cannot throw if you block the 2nd P of the screwhook retard!! But you know what? you can duck that shit so easily and you get a free fucking 70 point combo

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And yet you've been whining about it being -10 and harshly tc counterable (first part) cause of that for a long time, right? Seriously Shang; how often do you get thrown after getting the first part (which is all you need) blocked although it's -10? Why not apply some of your "safe cause it has a followup" logic to your own char? It's not as you cannot hitscan the move either (who has a 14frame semicircular mid that isn't counterable?).

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Jeff is weaker than wolf? Right~

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If there's one thing ppl normally are in agreement on it's placing Jeff, Goh and Brad at the lowest in rankings - something you know.

Good try of covering up you fuckups thru aggression, something you're used to (contrast of being a small fucker irl I guess). Other then that it's BS that people don't use Slam combos in Japan (just look at alot of the popular Aki combos). Wolf can do 100+ dmg in combos (doesn't matter). Wolf has crouchthrows in 3 directions with potenial of 75dmg (doesn't matter). Wolf can do 100dmg with a throw (doesn't matter). Once again here's your medal:



/KiwE (Expecting Shang to win next years evo with Aki)

 

Re: Wolf: Final Tuned

While I don't have anything constructive to add, specifically, at the moment, and while I won't argue that Wolf isn't as bad as you say he is, there's something I want to point out.

Shang: You say things like "Pai's sidekick is better! Kage's has TFT!" etc... etc... saying "Wolf isn't good, because somebody else has something better." That's my summary, anyways. The thing is, you can't look at it as individual moves. If you compare his move of type A, with character 1's version of move type A, and then his move type B, with character 2's move type B, we're not getting anywhere. Sure, there are people who have better moves in given situations. What you aren't looking at (at least, it doesn't seem that way) is the sum of Wolf's moves. I'm not sure if people know what I'm getting at when I say that, but I'm not sure I can explain it better. Wolf has solid throws, and decent striking attacks, and a smattering of other, very useful (if occasionaly situation specific) tools. Other people might have more powerful tools in specific situations, but all of Wolf's skills in combination make up a very powerful aresenal.

I dunno, maybe I just confused everyone with that post, but with the way you've been trying to approach the nature of why you think Wolf to be "weak"... I think that's the point you've been missing (or at least evading).

In other news: That picture is really, really funny.

 

Re: I want a squeeky toy to name it Shang.

hey dumbfucker... go learn how screwhook works, hitscan your ass, can i see if he is going to duck or not? How often do I get thrown after screwhook? NONE! I eat an auto 70 point damage combo when the 2nd P whiffs!!! Kiwe you are such a fucktard along with Jerky, all I'm asking is 1 combo where the JP uses b+p to cause a slam hit, CAN YOU COME UP WITH ONE? and wtf are you talking about Akira slam hits? Jerky isn't talking about b,f+p slam you retarded piece of shit, he is talking about a slam hit from a float. And for your fucking information.. screwhook is NOT a mid ATTACK. You are such a dumbfuck it's beyond fucking belief.
Find me 1 clip of wolf using b+p slam hit in a combo. fucking retard

 

Re: I want a squeeky toy to name it Shang.

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screwhook is NOT a mid ATTACK.

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Screwhook is specialmid monkeyboy. Go learn your movelist.

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hey dumbfucker... go learn how screwhook works, hitscan your ass, can i see if he is going to duck or not?

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If you can't see the difference on a MC (where you should do both parts) and when it isn't (like doing a screwhook after a 2p hit and opponent evading) maybe you shouldn't complain on ppl who don't exact recover. Go practice wolfs absolute first series exercise or something and learn the difference in hitsound and flash on MC.

I'm done clowning you, this thread has derailed from FT info on Wolf to "Why should we all cry for Shang before going to bed" enough. Fuck you and the ghey horse you rode in on.

/KiwE

 

Re: I want a squeeky toy to name it Shang.

Hey, at least he does not play shang

 

Re: I want a squeeky toy to name it Shang.

Kiwe, I've seen more times of the movelist than you have saw ur mom's pussy. While you might have fell asleep one too many times in english class, let me remind you I said "IT... ISN'T... M-I-D". Can you explain the differences between M-I-D and Special M-I-D?
You obvious have spent more of your life jerking cock, Yourself's or Other's than actually played the game. So please take your cum filled breath somewhere else okay? If you want to continue this conversation how about at trying to play an actual human player with wolf for once? How many times have you used wolf vs. real comp? and what's the difference between special mids/highs and mids/highs? Can you answer?

I doubt you can.. but here you go anyways..

 

Haha, nice try.

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Shang said:

Yes I fucked up but if I try to be aggressive about it and do some cock/cum/pussy reference (like I always do) and go GRRRRRRRRRRRrr maybe nobody will notice

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How sad Shang. It's still mid and you fucked up. It's <font color="white"> MDP = mid punch class </font> no matter how you try to put it. Go check the movelist again. "Uhm yes it's high but it's a gaurdbreaker!" "Uhm yes it's high but it's special high so it's not high!" Hahahahaha. Fun stuff!
First the "Anyway Wolfs TKS is better then jackys!" and now this. You're just priceless.
Sorry man, nice try to cover up - specially loved the "wolf against real comp" sideline as if it had anything to do with screwhook being mid. You crack me up monkeyboy - nice try!



/KiwE (Can the thread go back to actual FT discussion now?)

 

Re: Haha, nice try.

KiwE,

Do you know what it means for a move to be special mid? It means that if you hit it on a crouching opponent, it only stands them up but it causes no damage. Although if you do the second hit fast enough, the second hit is guaranteed, but otherwise Wolf is at -4. I can understand the application for the lpc here, but since people playing wolf knows that, it becomes a rather unreliable guess. Screwhook in Evo sucked because it can't beat a lp in certain stances, and if you hit the move normal hit, the second hit is not guaranteed, and it leaves Wolf at -3. So it's kind of pointless to say you need to hit check as Wolf, because it's a given. The point is, if the opponent can hit check, then Wolf is at a very high disadvantage when using this move. If they made the second hit a special high, or if the first hit staggers on normal hit, then that may make things a little better for Wolf....

 

Re: Haha, nice try.

Let's take a poll which hit throw would you rather have:

1, mid punch class 18 exe, -6 block, -2 hit, +2 counter that does 18+35+13 ground kick damage(-1 drink).

or..

2 mid kick class 17 exe, -12 block, -6 hit, -3 counter that does 17+45 (both player grounded after).

you must be a FUCKING moron... A FUCKING MORON to pick #2. A FUCKING MORON? a FUCKING MORON..

At this point you have made it very clear that you are clueless about wolf, about special high/mid properties. Calling screwhook a guardbreak is about as retarded as fucking a your dad's pussy with your mom's dick. "special high is a high" LOL! I can't wait to fuck u up with jacky's f+p,p... you fucking moron!

 

Additional points, and use of Screwhook in combos...

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2 mid kick class 17 exe, -12 block, -6 hit, -3 counter that does 17+45 (both player grounded after).

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As you know, this has been fortunately changed in FT. Wolf remains standing. Additionally, the hit throw can be performed on an opponent's back. So there are some definite changes that make this hit throw more attractive than it used to be, I suppose. (btw, the frame stats you listed, Shang, have not changed in FT - just fyi)

Also, with regards to using the screwhook for combos (e.g. + - - ). kbcat and I were talking about it and one of the main reasons to use the screw hook in combos - as opposed to b+P - is continue the pressure and play out the oki/tech roll game. Sure, the b+P can be tech'ed, but in all fairness this does not happen with a high consistency rate, even amongst skilled players. Untech'ed, the b+P combos do more damage, provided you pounce, and they can also open up pick-up or ground throw options. I just think that it's an interesting point, seeing the consensus (to a certain extent) in the thread has been that Wolf has a sub-par oki/pressure game. Why use the screwhook over b+P in combos then, if not to apply pressure through the tech-roll game? Is there another benefit I'm not seeing? Damage wise, would PPP not be a better choice over screwhook-P?

<font color="yellow">.cheers.</font>

 

This is ridiculus.

How dumb can you be if you think I called Screwhook a gaurdbreak? Did I call it a specialhigh aswell then? Learn irony or seriously stop hitting every branch of the stupid tree on your way down. You asked how "in any way n00b" the tks was better then jackys hitthrow and you just listed atleast one yourself (I said two) - you're a retard. Nobody said it was better all in all, "any way" means just any way.

Srider; that's great but I think most people know what a special mid is. It's still a mid attack (and Shang saying it wasn't was wrong) though wether or not Wolfs stats when hitting a croucher with it isn't good or not (mind you 22 dmg and a free knockdown is better then probably every other specialmid in the game isn't it?). The second hit is just a threat on normalhit making it more safe. Shang keeps downplaying Wolf saying Goh has better Oki which is just dumb (which you yourself should know) and for the sake of argument. And then some people try to downplay his throws aswell... that's bad.

It would be borderline murder if Wolf knocked down on all hits (as you suggested staggered on normalhit) with a circular tool at 14 frames (just think about it man) or the opponent couldn't duck the second hit if first was normal (as nothing is garanteed against wolf - no not even a throw due to the pushback if the opponent gaurds it standing). Totally safe 14 frame semicircular with pushback? How uncommon is it with fast moves that are diss on normalhit in VF even (everybody isn't Aki) in the game of VF? Specialhigh would arguably be better though but if opponent can duck secondhit on reaction there's no point of him doing 2p instead of something heavier. *shrug*

The hitscann issue was to scan if you got normal hit or MC, that's what's important to notice. Even if you MC with first one you don't need the second hit if you have the skill to do after (which many Japanese do). Once again; the second hit is a threat if first is gaurded or normalhit. Screwhook is an important part of Wolfs game - it wouldn't be used otherwise. Nobody goes around comethooking 1p all the time (although it's safe) so there must be something good with screwhook right?. 14 frame semicircular which knocks down / combos on MC and knocks down a croucher (with nice oki and 22 damage). How often do you even get this on normalhit seriously exept if you happen to catch a evader (in which case you should just be happy your less counterable then if it was a clean evade)? In FT he gets his new safe midkick with range and that's great, as I said in the beginning of this thread. Bottomline and which is said often; Wolf is highrisk and highreward, no that's not a Joke. Change char if it doesn't fit instead of whining your ass of or making retarded avatars cause nobody is crying for you.

P.S Shang; The groundkick after Jackys hitthrow isn't garanteed - learn to deal with it.

/KiwE

 

Re: Additional points, and use of Screwhook in combos...

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Llanfair said:
this does not happen with a high consistency rate, even amongst skilled players.

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dude, mashing pkg when the punch BEFORE the b+p hits you.. you'll get out of the slam 100% of the times. It's not hard to do at all. you just have to do it way early than you think. And let me tell you even if you can TR this combo 1/3 of the time good wolf player will stop using it. You can find out the reasons yourself, but for me if you can TR b+p twice, I will never use it on you again. That's how sucks is it if you know how to deal with it. Llan please redefine your term "skillful player", and don't be jerky. Go to training mode for 15min and it will set u free. You play Pai, that even more reason to learn this.
I don't think ppp does anymore damage than p, screwhook. similar damage and the TR game is much better with screwhook, only use ppp when it's a ringout or wall hit.

 

Re: This is ridiculus.

Nobody hitchecks to see if screwhook hits crouching and follows up with the 2nd hit. Get out of theory fighter land.

Also, stop listing "semicircular" as a positive property of screwhook. What does being semi circular do for the move? Jack shit. They evade into it and get hit, they are at advantage. And saying the 2nd hit is a threat is a fucking joke.

And special mid != mid. If screwhook was mid, this arguement wouldn't have happened.

 

Re: This is ridiculus.

please learn how to spell "guard" and "guaranteed" before further posting.

Dandyj: thank you.

 

Re: This is ridiculus.

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Also, stop listing "semicircular" as a positive property of screwhook. What does being semi circular do for the move? Jack shit. They evade into it and get hit, they are at advantage.

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You get 20dmg and you're at -3 as compared to a having a garanteed 14/15 frame launcher against you. Yeah I consider that "jack shit".

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And saying the 2nd hit is a threat is a fucking joke.

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Do you see many Wolfs being thrown after a singel screwhook as he's -10? Are you saying he would be safer if it wasn't there? That's a joke.

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And special mid != mid. If screwhook was mid, this arguement wouldn't have happened.

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This argument is happening due to Wolfs different stats after various moves, if it was a specialmid that gave +100 frames this argument wouldn't have happened. It's a attack that hit's mid (and mC those who recover mid with ease giving that guaranteed secondhit nobody hitscans) and MC's in midlevel, it's a mid attack. Get over it or call it high for what ever I care.

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And let me tell you even if you can TR this combo 1/3 of the time good wolf player will stop using it. You can find out the reasons yourself, but for me if you can TR b+p twice, I will never use it on you again.

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Do a small dash and as your heavydown. Tomahawk chop will come if they QR (which isn't a bad thing) making it a automatic nitaku situation.

Shang; Thanks for the spelling tip. I was kinda hoping for a cock reference though.

Wouldn't it be better if ppl who wanted to see actual FT info on Wolf could be spared all this discussion of Wolfs Evo moves?

/KiwE

 

Re: Additional points, and use of Screwhook in combos...

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Llan please redefine your term "skillful player", and don't be jerky. Go to training mode for 15min and it will set u free.

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I'll use myself as the example, then. I'd consider myself to be a skillful player. I've done the training mode, and even then I find I can only tech the b+P in matches *maybe* 20% of the time? Maybe it's just me. Worry not, I understand what you're saying, and I too would stop using it if my opponent tech'ed it twice in a match. Something I didn't mention, which adds to your argument, is the fact that the b+P combo is stance dependent (closed stance only on normal hit, both stances on MC), and it only does 12 points more damage. Taking all this into account, perhaps it's not the combo of choice. But a nice variation, nonetheless.

A quick test in training mode in Evo, PPP does 1 point less of damage than the screwhook. So, you're right, but it's minimal difference. But you'll have to elaborate on why you think the screwhook is better for the oki/techroll game (I've always found techrolling screwhook-P tricky due to the spiraling effect).

Here's an interesting comparison:
Techrollable combos for oki:
+ - - = 69 points, no stance req.
+ - - = 70 points, no stance req.
+ - - - + = 71 points, no stance req.
+ - - + = 71 points, no stance req. (looks cooler)
+ - - = 73 points, open stance only.

Interesting - why not do PP -> Shoulder? You're up close for the tech, and, albeit minimal, more damage. Better yet, for those who are stance savvy, the KK offers a bit more damage - and adds a nice change of scene to boot! /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

<font color="yellow">.cheers.</font>

 

Re: Additional points, and use of Screwhook in combos...

It's simply a better situation in VF in general to get the opponent headtowards you. Amongst many things you can evade / reverse midkicks (wolf takes no damage when reversing Sidekicks like this), easier to interupt rising kicks in general with an attack etc and many cute little tricks are applied in positions like this and sideways that can't be done otherwise.

Btw; You can also get in a extra before the screwhooks in certain situations (MC against LW closed stance) so it's his max combo sometimes aswell to end with them.

/KiwE

 

Re: Additional points, and use of Screwhook in combos...

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It's simply a better situation in VF in general to get the opponent headtowards you.

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LAMO! /versus/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

Re: Additional points, and use of Screwhook in combos...

Well.. I think people likes to use Shrm > p > Screwhook because it works all the way up to Akira. However vs. Akira in open stance and the heavies a standing p will miss after normal hit. So people will do d+p > reverse hammer. The shrm > p,p / pp > shrm combos do not work on some of the heavier characters I dont think. Anyways, general you want people to wake up with their head towards you because their raising attacks are pretty much linear and sucks. Also the timing of TR is a bit different when you are falling spinning. It's probably worth 1 less damage. The problem with b+p is that if he is able to take a TR you will end up doing very little damage and a pounce that misses, which means you are pretty much dead. You can avoid this by enter the command for the pounce as a +, however you lose all initiative with the back hop. + doesn't work (please stfu kiwe) The key to TR this slam is to mash the buttons very very early. It's quite easy. Hiro's wolf notes has many good wolf combos and infor.