What Strategy Gets Under Your Skin?

I have played VF for a damn long time (ten years - since VF3) and have mastered the art of killing mashers. I never lose to pure mashers anymore. Occassionally I will lose to a slightly evolved masher - ie someone whose game is not sound but who attacks and blocks in such a random and unpredictable way that they can take a game from me (especially if they play Brad or Eileen- two characters that I don't know for shit). The online mode is really a boon to these players because you have less time to figure out a player's shtick.

I think that less skilled players generally have this in common: they respond the same way to the same shit. Their responses might be different, but often times if they do something in one circumstance, they will do the same thing the next time that they are in that circumstance.

The easiest way to exploit this is to use two old favorites: P and 2P

If you land a P(G) try a throw. If it works then the person is likely to fall for this move again. When he catches on, do P(G), floater and float that ass.

The same works for low punch, but since the advantage an a sac punch is smaller, you probably want to mix the throws with whatever fast mid hit that your character has from a crouch.

 

I still lose to mashers on occassion. Usually happens when my offense gets broken by me making a mistake or my opponent blocking correctly and I am put on the defensive.

I often find that mashers swing when they get up which I can usually punish with a big combo. When I screw that up is when I am in trouble. If I can't stop the mashers attack from there they have a good chance of beating me.

I saw this sweet cross up tactic on youtube today that I can't wait to try. Hopefully it will keep me on the offensive which is how I usually win my matches.

 

you know what grinds my gears! those low jab, runaway and stutter step players. I feel like I'm chasing bugs bunny with a plan to lore me into a trap. They wait for you to make and rush in or try to throw you out the ring.

 

I've been experiencing this one quite a bit lately...

Turtle/Step Jacky.

How it works:
The round opens up and Jacky performs a fairly quick low backhand (or a chop, something of that sort). He then hops back and moves back and forth in an almost uncertain fashion, occasionally throwing out high-reach kicks and low attacks. As you go through the rounds you realize the person is not so much uncertain as much as they are purposely trying to maintain distance from you.

Once you finally move in on him, he finds an opportunity to step/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif you and follows up with pressure while you're at the disadvantage. Then everything is repeated from the start again.

I just wonder if this form of Jacky-play is ever truly necessary, as one known VFDCer informed me that he needed to "bait" my otherwise "mashing" Eileen in order to win. But I'm almost sure that I've been owned by other Jackys from within arms reach.

 

You (and I and everyone) have been beaten by Jacky players who come right and at you beat that ass. Those players are different from the back dashing, slide shuffling, evade P+K using players that you describe in that they have skill.

If someone says there are no shortcuts in VF they are not totally correct. There are ways to play that mitigate somewhat a player's lack of VF skill. DM abuse, low punch spamming, backdashing constantly - these are the ways of the chode.

There are ways to deal with these "techniques" but they require more skill than it takes to use them in the first place and that kind of sucks. Learning to deal with these clowns will make you a better player in the long run provided that you do not get too pissed off in the meantime.

 

Sounds like you dislike it whenever someone plays just a small bit unorthodox.

 

There is "unorthodox" as in being unpredictable and doing moves in situations that someone does not expect, and then there's the style described above which is not so much unorthodox as orthodox weak. There are a number of people who play this way, so it can't really be called original or clever or anything.

It is a way for a scrubby player to win more games than he would otherwise. Losing in general, and especially in VF, is frustrating. Losing to players who are not very good is even worse. Thus my disdain for these players' style. That said, it is a part of the game and so I/we must deal with it. I love VF5 overall and am thrilled that I can play it online. That doesn't mean I am not up for a good rant when it is called for.

 

I know next to nothing about fighting games and play styles on high level. But do none of the high level players turtle? I find that hard to believe, I know it's annoying but if it works (...).

I also get the idea that he just bashes everyone who doesn't play 'interesting' enough for his tastes.

 

When you say "turtle" do you mean machi stlye with constant backdashes and always using safe attacks or do you mean people who block attacks?

As far as the above mentioned orthodox weak style, it is less uninteresting and more aggravating and lame imo because it can basically be done without thinking and without regard to who you are facing.

 

Has anyone found success in implementing OM's against backdash happy folks? If they play like that my usual plan is to OM to get close or to try to "out-bait" them by throwing a quick whiffing move and then get on guard right away.

 

Runaway Jacky's not so bad. It's so obvious what they're trying to so (bait you for interrupts) that all you gotta do is outwait 'em and punish them when they attempt to initiate. Boring, but the style doesn't really gain them any advantage unless you keep charging at them.

 

Any strategy that only works because of the lag of online play. Yeah yeah, it's a part of playing online, but still, every time I get hit by a heavy pounce that I would have teched if it weren't for lag, every time I get hit by a combo I would have dodged were it not for lag, every single time I see the screen blip because of lag, I die a little inside.

 

Try tech rolling a little earlier and hitting the command 2 or 3 times. Annoying I know, but it works. I have gotten a lot better a tech rolling since I got a fast connection.

 

Finally. And I was beginning to believe that no one but my younger brother saw things the way I did, lol.

The problem is that not many people truly aspire to play like the elites. They'd rather not articulate the styles and strategies of proven champions. Instead of concerning themselves with the way chracters should be played, they've found contentment in lackluster improvisation--for the sake of "winning." I don't know if it's laziness or people just not caring. Incompetence can always be a possibility.

A simple trip to VF.TV will show anyone how Jacky should be played. And I understand... people are not going to immediately be skilled players from watching these matches. But one thing's for certain, they sure won't see any turtling going on--not from Jacky, or any other character.

 

Any character can be played the way you want it. This is one of the great things about VF is that everyone has their own style and it comes through even if they are playing the same character.

 

If they manage to beat you using crappy skills then you are showing them it works. And if it's in the game, and it works it's fair play. Even if it looks like crap. (IMHO). A truly skilled player won't let em get away with it.

My bet is that if they try to play fancy they will lose more due to moe risk and thus wont like it. BUt style comes with time, once they get a feel for the char they'll see what he is capable off. But if they see that you can be beaten using crap skills then they have no reason to resort to more interesting play.

and there is no one way to play a char.

 

I agree with you to some extent. The idea of 'if it works, use it' does make some sense. But then again, how practical can that approach be in the long run? The same can be said of button-mashing-Lei Fei noobs. Sure, it works well against all other noobs but anyone with a little bit of experience will easily own you if you try it on them.

All said, at the end of the day these exploitations are nothing more than bad practices on the part of those committing them. Not only that but it does paint an image of "this guy can find no other way."

I fought this one Jacky player in particular and he was able to muster up a win against me using his turtling strategy. I sent him a message that read "You turtle a LOT!" Long story short, he joined another one of my matches and tried to beat me without turtling--I'm guessing, to prove a point. He got owned horribly. I reckon that had he initially practiced not-turtling early on in his learning of the game, beating me without it would be more probable. Of course he can continue to play by his preference. But I highly doubt it'll get him very far.

 

Sure it won't take em far but that's for them to realise. I can only imagine how it must feel if someone who just lost to them proceeds to tell them how they should play. I bet it wouldn't be taken very seriously.

and i just realised that doesnt rhyme at all, I must be really tired.

 

Rhyme? Lol, no, nothing in that post rhymes at all.

As for the "cheap" online strategies, the problem is that three rounds often isn't enough to realize what they're doing, find the proper counter, and apply it fast enough to grab the win. In a best of three match, these guys wouldn't ever win. But when it's just three quick rounds, it can be hard to pick up on these silly strategies quick enough to stop them.

 

lol. Hope you're not looking for a music career.

Well, it's almost never the case that someone beats me with a weak strategy and I don't get some wins in as well. But if their ego is so huge that they can't take a little criticism, I don't know what to say. After all, I'm not trying to hinder their game--I'm trying to help them become more efficient.

From my experiences with fighting games, I know the winner is not always the better player. An exploit strategy is limited to what it can do. And although it may get the better of me at first encounter, by no means do I believe that makes the other player "better." In any case, my first thought is "I sure hope this is not all he has." Unfortunately, 9 times out of 10, that's exactly the case.