What Have You Learned? / How Have You Progressed?

Re: What Have You Learned? / How Have You Progress

LOL... Long as you know your ready to go the balls... nobody can tell you shit.I pray we can get fs and everybody starts from jump. Along with some good coding internationally. how would you feel if vf went the doa route with all online games having win loss and rank?

 

Re: What Have You Learned? / How Have You Progress

 

Re: What Have You Learned? / How Have You Progress

Jhow... I don't want to call you out on this, but I'm going to have to.

I remember an instance specifically, 3 years ago, VF5 still going strong with ranked matches. About 4 of us had similar ranks(within 1 level), just different titles. I was in ranked matches, it was Denkai and I going at it for a bit cause our ranks were the close(but different titles): Sarah vs Shun.

During the whole time, I was chatting with Denkai over aim, to know when one of us weren't in a match already so we can keep it going. Rod/Konjou popped up online and Denkai told me not to play Sarah so Rod wouldn't download me and figure my Sarah out at the time, so I was picking Kage and whatnot. However, one time I picked Jeffry and happened to be hosting, and then Jhow showed up to play, we were the same rank, I was surprised and also worried cause that was like one of the first times I ever picked Jeffry. I picked him cause I was expecting to lose some matches to people that didn't have similar rank to me(like some kyus), because I wanted to keep my win % below 70% because I wanted to become the only Protector rank at the time.

We played the match, I almost got away with winning it. I told Denkai about it(the loss), then we ended up playing again, this time I was using Sarah vs Jhow's Shun, and lost again. Jhow ranked up. I told Denkai about the next loss, and now Jhow was on similar rank as Denkai, Denkai said was basically saying he was going to avenge me and play Jhow. Then he said that Jhow always avoids him in ranked whenever he uses Shun and only shows up to play when he's using Jacky.

First we needed to make sure that Jhow wasn't in a match already, so I told Denkai when I was playing against Jhow again, I lost... again. But we knew Jhow wasn't in another match just yet because when it was ending Denkai hosted up with Shun. Jhow no shows. Denkai hosted up again afterwards using Jacky and Jhow showed up, funny though is that he lost that match anyway.

Denkai has told me plenty of times about how players would avoid playing him in ranked matches. That's why he jumped at the opportunity to play against me, because my rank was finally similar to his, and I was willing to play against him and not run away, win or lose(which oddly enough we ended up not messing up each other's bar because we would take a match back from each other, and him being a rank up the bar didn't move as much as it would with same exact rank).

We though it was silly at how people would want to be competitive, yet would avoid opponents if they're using characters, or playing in a way they don't think they could have a chance winning against.

I took my loses from Rod and Jhow, and got my rank taken down to real low. Glory had popped in a couple of days later and he took the last little bit of my rank bar I had left on that level and had moved up cause he was at the tip. After that, I ended up dropping mad matches to I think Wasted Wish's Lei Fei, having no idea what to even do, but I wasn't scared or trying to protect my rank, because I have an inherent weakness to Lei Feis.

After that, I thought it was so stupid that people sit there and try to protect their rank by other means that have absolutely nothing to do with the game itself. Like trying to dodge certain opponents or certain characters from opponents, or never ever hosting up the matches themselves and just go on the prowl picking and choosing favorable matchups instead. I just left ranked matches after that, and didn't care anymore. Then the game started dying down anyway.

This is just a summary or synopsis of what happened, but I have a good recollection of it because it was hilarious and lame at the same time.

 

Re: What Have You Learned? / How Have You Progress

Online Rank is spoiled, and not reliable. It's just a simulation of arcade scene but lacking too many contents to actually make those competitive matches become nearly perfect to enjoy. For instance, a simple kick option to avoid all bad connection, or any punishment for puller. Pursuing the highest rank must pay off something you do or do not expect, and the best part to enjoy is the process, not the result. I believe once FS comes out, Rank will be vivid again.

What Rod mentioned above was about "how to punish your opponent in guarantee", and it's a very good illustration for those who love VF, but don't realize or might never consider about this basic point. Let's get the way straight back, VFDCers!

That's actually a very good idea! Wow, DOA steps further than VF

 

Re: What Have You Learned? / How Have You Progress

how about suggesting to Sega, to put 'Dunce' items in all the matches.

 

Re: What Have You Learned? / How Have You Progress

And a lag simulator for practice mode

 

Re: What Have You Learned? / How Have You Progress

Speaking as someone with a fair amount of experience on DOA online, that is a horrible, horrible, idea. It would lead to rank whoring like you've never seen.

 

Re: What Have You Learned? / How Have You Progress

@Slide

I think I remember the instance you're talking about, which is surprising considering it was over 3 years ago. I will admit, while I will not avoid, I will PREFER playing someone's main character. No one can strip me of the fact that I was one of the most rank intensive players online. Like I mentioned yesterday, I stalked the rank lobby in the mornings for over a year, maybe two.

Here are my thoughts on that day - sometimes you have to pick your battles (both figuratively and litterally). Maybe it's just not your day, maybe you're having fun with the amount of other characters to play, etc.

My Shun vs Shun matches with Denkai could always go either way. It was practically a stalemate. And I will admit, I definitely don't enjoy mirror matches with that character, regardless of who is using him. I can tell you for sure that I was not maliciously avoiding him, nor have I ever avoided anyone, EVER! I love this game too much for that BS.

I'll just be honest in saying that I enjoy playing Denkai's Jacky much much more, which should be a compliment considering it's his main character. The battles to me were intensely more fun. And that goes for anyone, I will always much rather play your main character!

 

Re: What Have You Learned? / How Have You Progress

Not even.. Cause if you don't deserve that rank from rank whoring you will be exposed... On top of that in DOA you can make a room where you have people that must meet a rank qualifi cation rather than play all classes.. For instance in Doa Dabadseed was a SS and i was a A+ know if i win i will i get a full 1000pts compare to his was 250?.. He had to fight his ass off to maintain that with no real reward just a risk. It's almost as is hes walking around with the Number 2 headband for the rest of is life. While it had its holes it made the matches more meaningful cause you can assemble a room of people with rank that can actually raise you up regardless.

Oh yeah Jhow.. no matter how you cut you WAS PICKING YOUR FIGHTS!!!

 

Re: What Have You Learned? / How Have You Progress

Nope! I will maintain that I was choosing who to have fun with at the time when many people were online, and also people that were high ranked. If anyone is trying to call me out that I didn't want to play Denkai, it makes no sense considering I was the one that helped him get to Conqueror.

 

Re: What Have You Learned? / How Have You Progress

Let me put it to you this way. In DOA4, virtually everyone who had the SS rank got it by pulling on matches they were about to lose. The rank basically became a joke, because if you had it, it was assumed you were a cheater. I guess you could make it so you always lost points if you pulled, but people would just find other ways to cheat. At least in VF5, people who didn't want to have to fight with their shitty record on their shirtsleeve could stick to player match and save ranked for the serious players.

Edit: Ok, you know what? Actually come to think of it, there were two reasons why ranks were meaningless in DOA4. One was the pulling, and the other was people building points in private rooms. As long as you penalized people for pulling, and didn't allow private rooms to affect rank, getting rid of player match might work. But then people might just use private rooms as a substitute for player match, which would more or less defeat the purpose.

 

Re: What Have You Learned? / How Have You Progress

There was a glitch to get an SS rank as well in DOA4. People would glitch the rank and then pull whenever they lost.

There was a UK player called Messy who was good but always pulled if I was about to beat him so he didn't drop a bunch of points.

I did like the lobbys in DOA4 though. They were really neat.

 

Re: What Have You Learned? / How Have You Progress

Jhow, you kidding me? That still doesn't negate the fact that you picked and chose who you wanted to play against, as far as character selection. And yes, at that time you were avoiding Denkai's Shun. Also, at that time Denkai's mains were both Jacky and Shun, and his Shun was much stronger, that is also why he was using Shun vs my Sarah at the time in ranked because it gave him the best chances.

Ranked became a joke for the longest time, because people would just constantly avoid players. Or they would only want to play against someone with similar rank they believed(sometimes wrong) they had an edge against. Soon as people's bar got threatened, they'd disappear and look for some unsuspecting player they could prey on.

It's not challenging oneself. It's just using favorable easy circumstances, taking the simple and lack of challenging way out. Under the guise of interesting excuses. You think the Bulls in the 90s would've been fulfilled competitively and challenged themselves if they requested the Clippers? It's preferences and favorable choosing, it's the same stuff SRK top players do at many tournaments with switching brackets around for favorable matches to reach top 8.

You wanna know something? I didn't like battling against Shuns at the time either, was afraid of it. I felt like I was just constantly getting exploited, but I still went at it anyway. I wasn't going to just run away from my challengers until I felt like they were out of breath.

EDIT: It's just like with Air Jacky all of a sudden saying he never ever plays hard and just let's go of playing. Because if he were to play harder and still lose the same against the same opponents, then it would probably bust his ego. It's easier to say he wasn't playing and just letting people win. That way his loses won't mean anything and his ego can still meet quota.

 

Re: What Have You Learned? / How Have You Progress

In principle maybe. In practice, they were usually way too big, and often had major lag issues (one player could lag the whole room under certain circumstances). I really like how in VF5 ranked you can just play one match after another, even if you lose. Waiting for matches really sucks.

Not everyone did that though. In fact, I think overall people who did that were the exception. As for me, I usually challenged the highest ranked person I could, unless there was someone specific I wanted to fight. I always enjoyed fighting against better players a lot more that players at my own skill level. I like the challenge. I almost never fought anyone I knew I could beat consistently. And despite that, I still maintained a win rate of over 60%.

 

Re: What Have You Learned? / How Have You Progress

Slide, it sounds like you really want a confession and you're not going to get one, because it's not true. I still don't understand where you're trying to go with this. If I avoided Denkai, why would I have ever played him toward the end when he became Conqueror? And it wasn't just one session either, it was many, many non-avoiding sessions that led up to him becomming Conqueror that took anywhere from 6 months to a year. The reason it took so long is because everytime I was demoted I had to search for Japanese players to SLOWLY rank back up. In the end I was happy to contribute my rank to someone who deserved to be promoted.

It's too bad more people can't acknowledge or set aside their ego to say things like this: Old post from smb

And here is a private message from smb that I know he wouldn't mind me sharing:

Congrats on Slayer! You definitely deserve it. I see very few people working as hard and risking as much as often in ranked as you do. Sometimes i wonder how you do it! When i was playing and trying to rank up, after 2 or 3 rank matches--that count towards promotion/demotion--i'd be mentally and emotionally exhausted and have to call it quits for the night. (i hope i wasn't one of the people you were referring to about hiding with rank, i think some people may get that impression b/c they'd play me 2 or 3 and i'd usually get the better and then be out., but again, its just b/c i'd become fatigued, same thing used to happen to me when i'd play SOME SERIOUS CHESS, lol, one or two games and i was DONE.)

Plus the fact that you are humble and always approach the site/game in a dignified manner (unlike some who play the look at me game) makes me even more happy for you. Like konjou said, push on through to conquerer man, it'd be awesome to see a mortal (as in not yosuke) that i sorta know get there. And that you are doing it your own i think is cool. So many people on this site have a presuposed idea as to how the game is meant to be played, and try to downgrade someone if they are winning outside the bounds of those unspoken rules. I think that if you are bending the envelope on what is possible to make your success, thats where the real imagination lies. And if someone wants to complain that it shun, i'd argue its just you utilizing every tool shun has, and making the most of his charactar specific traits.

looks like i got off on a tangent,
congrats dude, even tho i'm in a state of semi-retirement and frustrated with the ranking system b/c everytime i'm about to promote a puller resets me, I can still take pleasure in your success, because you are one of the VFDC good guys.

 

Re: What Have You Learned? / How Have You Progress

You help him get to Conquer cause he Pwned your ass no matter what character he used. Don't try to sugar coat shit Jhow. you realized he was the only person still playing back and forth with you so you could'nt run from him anymore. When you worst fear was Finalized you accepted the fact and just played. I Give you credit beause you want to play rank while everybody else did'nt. Ranks never matter though so to me it think Dudes know the pecking order of who they can beat.


DID i forget to Mention Denkai Specifically said his Shun Got him to the conquerer Rank a bit quicker because he face problems against certain people who was familiar? Your Shunanigans did'nt affect him because he used shun and knew EVERYTHING you Do and Don't Do.

not to Mention SMB is one of the dudes who did'nt want to put that rank up. That Rank shit is Bogus i just want the fucking game to be live again. From here on out you a Conquerer JHow. You are the people's Conquerer and Slide is Right about that Bullsit Air Jacky tries to prove. I've seen him fight his hardest online then when he gets broken off a something proper he results to slacking. BOTTOM LINE JHOW You already know wassup.

 

Re: What Have You Learned? / How Have You Progress

Thanks SDS for mostly the props I guess. First though, Denkai never owned me, but yes, beat me. Second, he might know Shun very well, and even my Shun because he uses him, but he doesn't know everything I do. This is where I will pat myself on the back - no one uses Shun like I do, and I pride myself on that.

Please everyone know I'm not trying to fight or diss anyone. I never do that.

One last thing I have to reiterate about the whole Air Jacky lack-of-trying thing, and I'm glad you brought it up again SDS since that is where all this talk started a few days ago. I only have one question - how come so many people never knew he was doing it? SDS you were one of the few that did catch on immediately, so kudos. But Air Jacky did in fact prove a point. His thoughts were that people weren't progessing, weren't taking VF seriously, and would keep playing him as long as they were winning. I'd say he found a way to figure this out to be true considering the vast amount of people that never seemed to get it, and even some that actually had to ask if he was trying.

Again I'm not dissing anyone for this, but to me it is a HUGE eye opener, and admittingly rather interesting.

 

Re: What Have You Learned? / How Have You Progress

One thing I don't like is insinuating some kind of deficiency in a player to ask Air Jacky if he's trying. If he's never shown anything but "half-assed" play (by his/Jhow's standards) so how would anyone know what level he was at? The assumption that people give a shit to notice is a bit of a stretch for me.

I use a lot of gimmicks online too but I don't claim that I'm hiding my power level DBZ-style. It's more that I find online play insufferably dull at times. I take the L and move on.

I still like Air Jacky's idea of exposing flaws in people's game, but it's hardly a knock on a player if they have to ask someone else if they're trying.

 

Re: What Have You Learned? / How Have You Progress

I don't care about a confession. I said something because your posts come off a certain way, to those that don't know the whole deal. You helping Denkai get to Conquerer is all well and good, but the stories before it got that are a lot different, so if you want props I can give you props, but many others here that's been posting would've played him too, even before the comp in rank got scarce. But ranked died a long time ago, some people are online at different times so they'd never be able to have their rank bar move again, up or down. You playing Denkai at that point was pretty much like the "if you were the last man on Earth" situation.

It's mad weak if you got to play against players from a far off land, to get your rank bar to move. You'd have to be on at odd times, and the conditions are very far from ideal, relatively speaking even for an online match. It's just random trading of titles, not a show of game strength or competition.

It ends up just being about a rank title, instead of being about actual strength in the game.

 

Re: What Have You Learned? / How Have You Progress

Somebody puts up a fight, loses, and then all of a sudden decides to be a punching bag to make the other person "lose" because they refused to acknowledge. You wanna know what that's called? It's called tanking.

I'm sure others not just me and SDS, noticed that Air Jacky would throw in the towel in the middle of the fight. If you're paying any attention, you could pick it up the very second it happens. Maybe some people just don't care, or felt so insulted that they continued to just hit buttons on him. But somehow, since he admits to doing this to people, they all somehow "lose".

I played Air Jacky and didn't want to play him anymore, because he disconnected on me and got upset that my Jacky was moving around too much. I remember doinog 6P backdash 6P backdash 6P, a number of times and he would do absolutely nothing.

Air Jacky must be playing a different game. Join up against someone, and not do a thing and see if the opponent either catches on, or not. If they don't they "lose". If they do catch on and decide to just screw around back, he disconnect.