What a reality check! Jacky, general VF4 pointers please.

I think the shuffle step kick recovers longer too. I remember in Version B the iaigeri > knee was virtually guaranteed, whereas now in Version C iaigeri > elbow can be struggled out of, though rather difficult.

AFAIK, iaigeri elbow is not strugglable. I tried Iai-->knee on PS2's training mode and it registered as a true combo.

I'm not sure but I think the regular SS kick(not Iai) is now throw counterable.

 

-Spinning Knuckle (4P) crumbles on Counter
-Smash UPper (2_3P) from 19 to 22 damage. No counter-attackwhen guarded.Normal hit doesn't knock down. Counter hit knock opponent on his butt
-Dash Hammer Kick (66K) Normal kick knocks opponent on butt.
-Spining Rosepin Kick (K+G2+K+G) Longer recover time.
-Spin Leg Slicer (2K+G,K) - 2nd kick is special high, and a direct attack (no spin anymore)
-Hit Spin Kick P+K,K counter hit has gone from rather disadvantageous, to advantageous (doesn't say for who though. )
-Slide Shuffle (4P+K+G) moves come out quicker
Short Slide Shuffle attacks come out instantly
Input time for Punch, launched during 'Paksao Kncukle Paksao' (don't know the name of that move -- weird katakana) takes longer.

Looks more like they tweaked him, rather than made him better or worse. I'll let you know if I find a different list.



AND
p,p,u+p/ b+p,p/ f+p,p etc... have all become special highs.
The 3 moves I've listed here are incredibly useful, if you haven't realised.

Even if we consider the fact that b,f+k+g, p+g and BK have been powered down, its still obvious that he received way more power ups than power downs in Ver.C.

Anyway, you don't sound very convincing with your arguments when you have not played Jacky. Maybe thats why you have trouble beating Jackys. /versus/images/icons/laugh.gif

 

I might've played him once, just to piss off a friend of mine, and prove a point -- (one I've brought up here). I've gotten better against him (beat a 10-dan Jacky who's relatively well known around here) but I'd say it's 50-50. I've got bigger problems w/ Lau I'd say.

I've never played Wolf, Jeffry, Lau (more than twice), Sara (more than 3 times), Akira, ... or (forgetting) and I don't have near as many problems smoking these guys...

 

Thats strange. I tried elbow(stagger)-->elbow and I found that the CPU will always struggle out of it(the 2nd elbow does not knock down and the damage counter resets).

Then I tried Jacky's uppercut(counter), b+k+g and it registered as a true combo?! Can't be...It seems that the CPU will NEVER try to struggle out of sit down staggers, but it will always struggle out of normal staggers.
Maybe the training mode is indeed bugged.

But then again, I've only played the PS2 version a grand total of 3 times - once at Jeff's place and twice at Pinkgirl's place(she just got a PS2 a few days ago), so I haven't got the chance to fully explore all the options in training mode yet.

Anyway, thanks for the suggestion, I will give it a try when I have the time. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

 

I'm sorry, I thought you actually played Jacky. LOL, I should've just ignored any comments for which you might have about Jacky.

P.S- Your ideas of Jacky's useful seemingly abusable unfair moves "ARE THROW COUNTERABLE" was my main point.

Now go have fun beating your imaginary 10th dan Jacky's.

Don't get me wrong, I just don't think this Gaijin Punch guy has a clue of Jacky's potential and if what he is saying is true, then my respect for 10th dan players has decreased immensly.

 

Here's my 10th Dan jacky records:

Shibuya:Sancha Akira (Jacky 10th dan). Beat him w/ Lion & Aoi
Jakushi (Jacky 10th dan) Beat him with Shun last night. Once out of 3 times.

Don't really feel the need to prove my honesty or anything... feel free to drop by and watch.

 

GaijinPunch, where are you located? I will probably make a trip to Tokyo sometime in July, and it would be great if I could meet up with someone who can speak English and play VF4.

 

I'm not asking you to prove anything, it's just plain and simple. You sound as though you don't know anything about the characters you don't play. You have balls talking about Jacky and not playing him at all. Why don't you find another thread to talk in. Your thoughts on Jacky seem to piss me off and possibly any other serious Jacky player. I may take you up on that offer sometime soon, I'll pm you and let you know when we're coming. Some of us Fl. guys are planning a trip early 2003. Possibly see you then. later.

 

Ice-9: I live in Tokyo... a quick tricycle ride over to Shibuya. Air Jacky stopped by the other day and we got to hook up and play a little.

Now, as for pissing you off blonde_one -- why do I have to 'know something' about the guys I don't play. I'm not meaning to piss anyone off, but if it happens along the way, well, I guess that's the way it goes.

Here's my point: Jacky is an extremely 'rewarding' character if you just sit there and block, especially a low attack. Yeah, you can say that ANYONE is, but here's some examples: (I'm generally speaking w/ a Lion Vs. Jacky round, as he's my main guy, so keep that in mind)

1: Blocking a low leg sweep or something. You get the knee or elbow of doom, which takes off quite a bit of damage.

2: Auto-inashi -- 'nuff said. Does anyone really NEED this to win w/ him?

3: Evasive attack & 66K -- not so bad, but if it hits, there's basically two things that are going to happen w/ most Jacky's: a throw, or P+KPK -- guessing game, and not enough ways out.

4: 6K+G, then the pounce. I wouldn't have a problem w/ this if the pounce was a bonus -- IE, not guaranteed. Unless I'm doing something *TOTALLY* wrong, there's no way out of this. (Same w/ Sarahs). Takes off about as much damage as a good throw.

5: His voice, but I don't think there can be anything done about that.

I'll do my bitchings about Lau in another thread.

 

I don't mean to nit pick on u...but case in point

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Blocking a low leg sweep or something. You get the knee or elbow of doom, which takes off quite a bit of damage.

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I think this is a rather bad example..any one that gets his low sweep guarded is bounded to eat damage...if u're complaining abt the it, we might as well complain abt Jeff's knee->kkp...50% gone...

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Auto-inashi -- 'nuff said. Does anyone really NEED this to win w/ him?

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I have no qualms with Jacky having this ability...if u need to complain..might as well complain abt Lei's 100% tech roll combo...or Lei auto reversals..or Vanessa's sabaki n auto inashi..or Lion's Sabaki etc etc etc

The inashi follow up punch does not really give him that much of an advantage...if u compare his inashi to the list above, Jacky's inashi is really weak n risky. More bonus if Lion is ur main...after Jacky's inashi punch...lion's sabaki attack is a great answer to start your counter attack.

If u're falling for the inashi..it just means predictability on ur part n luck going to the Jacky player that decides to take a gamble.

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Evasive attack & 66K -- not so bad, but if it hits, there's basically two things that are going to happen w/ most Jacky's: a throw, or P+KPK -- guessing game, and not enough ways out.

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realistically, defensive skills will really be tested here. Yes yes I know it's a nitaku situation in fav of Jacky...but realistically, u might as well complain abt Akira..who has better nitaku follow ups. And yes, I noticed MASK and many Jacky players have a real healthy habit of doing 66K n abusing it at first chance...but once again, if the character of ur choice has a move that puts u in an advantages position, would u complain abt it?

I can complain abt how Lion's CD throw->46K+G combo takes off good damage and go on complaining how it is unfair that Jacky does not have such an opportunity as well. But why bother? I would much rather spend time figuring out what lion is gonna do after 46K+G.


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6K+G, then the pounce. I wouldn't have a problem w/ this if the pounce was a bonus -- IE, not guaranteed. Unless I'm doing something *TOTALLY* wrong, there's no way out of this. (Same w/ Sarahs). Takes off about as much damage as a good throw

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How can u realistically bitch abt this combo when light weight characters have to put up with Akira's yoho, p, shoulder ram, p, double palm? Esp in light of the damage being as u said..."Takes off about as much damage as a good throw".
I wouldn't worry at all if the damage is abt as much as a good throw. In fact, I'll be thanking my lucky stars!


And yes, I do agree that Jacky's voice is rather gay...i much prefer his voice in the test version.

What really annoys the tits outta me is when I think of newbies who might read this thread n go away with the impression of Jacky->cheap/needs little skills to play a good Jacky/over-powered

Dude, it's no secret that Jacky in his latest form is fairer than he's ever been. In VF4, it takes good yomi and defensive skills to win with Jacky.

 

Well, it seems we're just getting into a battle of opinions here. There are a few Akira moves that seem a bit to strong w/ me as well, but case in point -- using Akira takes some serious skill, at least to pull off a lot of his moves.

I'm not trying to knock other Jacky players. To beat any skilled player takes skill.... I just don't think it takes as much w/ Jacky.

Also -- wtf is Nitaku?

 

Well, sure Jacky doesn't take as much time to master. He's a "Beginner" character. What did you expect.

However, he is missing quite a lot of tools, he is just very specialised in powerful and balanced striking and throwing offense. Just take a look at his defensive tools, Niet. Nothing, except a high risk, low damage reversal.

He got nothing special. Nothing that you can use to trick your opponents. Just straight up offense. Period. If you haven't learned yet to counter that kind of offense, sorry. He simply uses the basic guessing game, and Jacky players just happen to learn how to play this game a lot faster, since they rely on nothing else to trick opponents. Jacky is the best character to learn offense. Yet, if you can take advantage of his defensive flaws, he's all yours.

 

The term nitaku is Japanese for two-choice. It is used to denote the opportunity for either a fast attack or throw. Specifically, the opponent must guess between defending against an attack or throw. However, nothing is guaranteed though.

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To beat any skilled player takes skill.... I just don't think it takes as much w/ Jacky

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Ah...I'm not going down that road.

 

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1: Blocking a low leg sweep or something. You get the knee or elbow of doom, which takes off quite a bit of damage.

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Thats just basic Risk REWARD, your still a ballsy idiot. Don't sweep unless you see me start to evade.

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2: Auto-inashi -- 'nuff said. Does anyone really NEED this to win w/ him?

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Hey in a high level match if you go neutral you deserve that inashi. IMO.

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3: Evasive attack & 66K -- not so bad, but if it hits, there's basically two things that are going to happen w/ most Jacky's: a throw, or P+KPK -- guessing game, and not enough ways out.

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A throw maybe, yes, but p+k,p,k? For one Jacky's beatknuckle can be sidestepped to "ONE" side. For two, if your any good you can throw escape to that side, thats not that hard to remember everytime you get hit by it. Plus if Jacky throws his sidestep move out, ITS THROW COUNTERABLE if blocked. You still don't know anything in my book. I mix up elbow, throw, or just plain wait to see what my opponent does after they're hit with it.

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4: 6K+G, then the pounce. I wouldn't have a problem w/ this if the pounce was a bonus -- IE, not guaranteed. Unless I'm doing something *TOTALLY* wrong, there's no way out of this. (Same w/ Sarahs). Takes off about as much damage as a good throw.

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Jesus christ man, this move is SLOW and not to mention EXTREMELY Linear!!! If your getting hit by this move, Your doing something terribly wrong. Not to mention it leaves jacky at a MONSTER disadvantage, can someone say THROW COUNTERABLE? i think I just did.

I'm going to give you some advice, don't bitch about characters you don't play. And re-evaluate your skills. peace.

p.s.- Trashcan your statement has made you my new hero, well spoken. later.

 

Dude:

It's a fucking game man -- don't lose your kewl. I'm sorry that your short & curlies are getting all twisted b/c I'm knocking your character, but shit -- it's going to happen. I get it all the time, even when I use Shun -- arguably the weakest character in the game!

 

I don't appreciate that post at all. Lion players don't have to try as hard as the rest of us. Sega gave him an unfair advantage(sarcasm). LOL, what!?!?! How many moves does lion have that are throw counterable, not many, how many sweeps does lion have, a lot, what throw can lion hit you with, do a decent amount of damage and still force a guessing game. Oh I almost forgot lion's FC, f+p goes under EVERYTHING, yes it is throw counterable, but Jesus how many moves have that property. I could talk for a while about how Lion sucks, but I didn't until now, cause I don't play him. I have a respect for the players. I guess I'll have to break Forward throw all the time playing against lion. No biggy.

I feel that if someone is talking about a character being lesser or greater than the others, it makes the game look lesser than what SEGA intended it to be. I like all the characters, and if my brain could handle it I'd become Tetsujin with all of them. =) no harm GP, there just seems to be this aura surrounding jacky as a easy beginner character. I hate that. Cause I play jacky, and I don't play him like a scrub either. When you inferred that I should go and p+k,p,k my friends to death. I felt there was a condescending tone to that. So I retaliated. sorry.

 

um...wait a sec. this is getting a bit out of hand.

suffice it to say, everyone has characters they find annoying or "unfair." I bitch at my friend all the time about Jacky, and he bitches all the time about Lion. It goes with repeatedly getting beaten by that character.

I'd say they're all fairly even. There is a lot that gives Lion or Jacky advantage over other characters in certain ways, but that has more to do with style than anything. sometimes a player just has certain holes in their style that allows a low attacker like Lion or an aggressive attacker like Jacky openings to do some damage.

 

um...wait a sec. this is getting a bit out of hand.

suffice it to say, everyone has characters they find annoying or "unfair." I bitch at my friend all the time about Jacky, and he bitches all the time about Lion. It goes with repeatedly getting beaten by that character.

I'd say they're all fairly even. There is a lot that gives Lion or Jacky advantage over other characters in certain ways, but that has more to do with style than anything. sometimes a player just has certain holes in their style that allows a low attacker like Lion or an aggressive attacker like Jacky openings to do some damage.

 

>>everyone has characters they find annoying or "unfair."

Yeup. Hence the Shun comment.

Let's just drop it -- it's going no where but in the wrong direction.

In all honesty, I've got more problems playing against Pai, as there are only like 5 people or so in my area... unfortunately, they're all quite good, and my Track record with her is extremely low, so I generally get my ass waxed. When I'm done learning her (FYI -- I destroyed a 7-dan Jacky w/ her the other day... the one I could never get w/ Lion) I'll take on Jacky and see what can be seen.