Virtua Fighter vs Dead or Alive discussion thread

You honestly think VF string delays are just as universal and just as extended as the ones in DOA?
Well, since I've only ever played DOA2 and 3, I can't discount the possibility that Team Ninja tightened up DOA gameplay with the later games.

 

No I didn't say they were universal or just as extended. I said you were exaggerating about the length of the delay - "x2 for every DoA character". I'm not attacking you or anything, I just think that it's really not as long as you're claiming it to be.

 

"My strings are more delayable than your strings" is one of the most pointless lines discussion I've ever seen. Both games include strings that are heavily delayable, though DoA is more string heavy so you notice them there more.

I don't really know what could be gained with a full-on DoA x VF game. The VF characters are fun in DoA, they added interesting playstyles to the game. However, what could really be gained by trying to meld both systems together? Trying to meld both systems together would be an unsatisfying compromise on both ends, because while both systems are already very similar, the differences that they do have include entire sub-systems (Critical Stun either exists or doesn't, universal reversals[holds] either exist or don't), or are specific to the overall design philosophy of the characters(general safety of DoA attacks compared to VF, different startup frames on throws in DoA).

CvS2 was a great crossover game because SNK and Capcom games were similar enough in overall design philosophy for the character designs to co-exist with each other, and the -Ism system managed to port what game-specific mechanics existed from respective company's games. There doesn't seem to be this potential in whatever hypothetical DoA x VF that could exist.

 

The games share so much in common with each other, because Itagaki was/is such a fan of VF. It's just VF is further on, with it's engine, where DOA likes to keep it simple mechanic wise, and is still behind the curve (gameplay wise, and no, this isn't a bad thing perse Emporer Cow is doing tutorial vids and all the stuff he goes through has already been in VF.

I don't mind as I like the VF-type fighter, fast paced with a quick back and forth flow and it brings something different too the table compared to the space heavy games. I just think, the game would be too similar to each other and differences are minor.

 

It could encourage some of the DoA players to try out VF like how DoA5 has for some VF players. Expanding the number of players is surely a good thing.

 

Well I know that this hasn't been commented on for like 2 years but if they were to make a game like this (which is unlikely) I say DOA counters, VF gameplay, DOA stages and online, DOA story. Although this is very unlikely, this is how it should be done. Also the closes that we will get to this is VF6 has some DOA characters.

 

-Lmao, long time no see guys!

-You are actually over simplifying the mechanics here. Unlike previous DOA'S in the series, The active frames of DOA5 Defensive holds(DH) were reduced. And are pretty much on par with your average VF5 reversal frames! So it is no longer as easy to be successful in hold completion. However, with this said Aoi's reversal system and the general DOA5 cast's Defensive holds(DH) are similar in gameplay application, but differ in overall use. Aoi being a Reversal expert in VF, allows for her counters to be used as a distinct aspect of her gameplay! Since the rest of the VF cast do not have the same usage of the Reversal system, it is only "more" difficult as it only being character specific as opposed to it being system wide. Since that is the Case in DOA5, you are forced to embrace the Defensive hold(DH) system from the very start. Virtually eliminating this "pseudo" skill barrier you state that will hinder DOA players from successfully adopting VF-Style gameplay. In all honesty DOA5 being a very easy to pick up and play game, hides the true difficulty it takes to properly play the game. For Example...The Aoi reference that is being used...Simplifying things for a bit here, unlike VF having one expert reversal character, Take a look at the daunting task of every single competitive player needing to effectively utilize DOA5's DH system!!! Unlike Aoi, all DOA5 players must be adept in using it at least in some moderate degree due to the fact that There are staggers that Force you to utilize them. So in all honesty, no knock to VF, but there is a higher degree of gameplay knowledge (Skill set) required of that of a competitive DOA5 player!!!

-You are looking at the mechanics all wrong! If lets say there was a merger of VF and DOA, all system mechanics must be investigated and thoroughly thought out! If VF mechanics are dominate, The DOA Cast will have to lose out on having DH as a system mechanic, and need to be tweaked to in force VF style Stepping and most importantly the total revision with the whole negative/plus frames on Guard!!! This right here is the most significant gameplay difference between the series. DOA cast will need to adopt the greater use of hit stun along with the reduction of staggers. This will allow the DOA cast to utilize more defensive techniques like fuzzy guarding, Side stepping, back dash etc... Just like how the included VF cast in DOA5 had a significant reduction in hit stuns(and there inherent gameplay attributes) in favor of heavy use of staggers, Defensive hold and stagger escape techniques!!! So this is not simply a thing with VF being too skill intensive or any of that nonsense for DOA players. It is all about finding a proper balance with the DOA cast if such changes were made. I honestly would not see any competitive DOA vets having much difficulty if such changes were implemented. in fact, It would be totally easier for a DOA vet to transfer to that of a VF style revamp than vice versa. Honesty, it is borderline cumbersome dealing with DOA5's whole stagger/stun system. Unlike in VF, a simple Guard cannot be used. a player is first forced to recognize the plethora of staggers/stuns, there frame advantage, DH escapability, Stagger escapability non escapable. wether or not to employ a DH or Stagger escape to limit your opponents options. Am I required to do both! When I either stagger escape or DH, how many frames am I now in safe disadvantage and now am I able to open up (whats already inherent in VF) fuzzy guarding, side stepping, back dashing etc.

-As you can see, The DOA player is not dealing with the so called stigmatized "DOA simplicity" here and requires greater effort to be effective. If those players could not put there finger on exactly why they loath DOA's stagger/stun system, this is it!!! For a game that have such an easy entry learning curve, shit like that throws you for an uncanny loop, and is virtually not required by any other competitive 3D fighter to be successfully competitive. So the way I see things, implementing a more VF style will actually simplify(for the most part) what is required of a DOA player to be competitive. However such a change will drastically effect lets say grapplers like Bass and Tina! Me being a Tina player, many of my most damaging set-ups come about from staggering my opponent and limiting their defensive options to only a DH. Unlike in VF all Tina Throws get a significant boost in Hi-Counter Throw damage revision. This is very significant in the total amount of damage that she inflicts and how effective she is as a character. replacing those staggers with VFs more common hit-stuns remove those types of damaging setups and replace them with virtually nothing. also allowing the player on defense to be in a far safer less riskier situation!!! unless she is given many situations on hit that would allow a strong nitaku situation....ugh I still dont see the damage being anything close to that of DOA's. anyway this will be more of a daunting task on Am2's part than it was on Team Ninja's!!! seeing how the changes for the DOA cast is far less favorable lol.

 

Wow, I didn't even know there was a thread for this. I personally hope this happens. I think it would be awesome!

 

Yep.... imagine the wonders it would do for my Vanessa. ofcourse right now thats just a dream.