Virtua Fighter 6

I don't know which way SEGA should go with VF, but I do think this part is true (although I think VF isn't flashy enough for arcade fighting fans, not necessarily too realistic).

 

I don't think it should go anywhere, or it will be just like every other fighter in the market.

 

i'm gonna agree with others that would like to see juggles go. this wouldnt necessarily mean combos would go too. just that launchers would be more like heavy stuns that open up your opponent rather than lifting them like they are filled with helium.

this could be a chance for combo hits to look their best: a jab in the middle of your combo would smash into the side of their face, or a hook shatter some ribs to lengthen the stun for additional hits. at the moment, a jab in the middle of a juggle has little impact visually, it just pops them a little higher into the air (strange). its something i've always wanted from "virtua" fighter, i want to "feel" the impact of each hit. not necessarily in a flashy way or photorealistic. just impactful.

that said, i dont want it to be too real. like my favorite kung fu movies, some hits can have an exaggerated effect. the heaviest attacks could send your opponent flying 10 feet back, or even launch in the air(from which you could juggle, just not a super floaty juggle).

sorry if i've posted a bunch of stuff somebody already said. didnt read the whole thread yet.

 

Agreed, it is all just marketing. We're on the same page there.
Also, I know, the Sega's goal was not necessarily do give the fighters real moves, but more so believable moves (that is, moves that could possible be real).
So we also agree on the fact that Virtua Fighter was not meant to be true simulation.

On the other hand.,. Femto I don't know how far back you go, but one of my first video games was Wasps for the Commodore Vic 20. And I remember when Mortal Kombat first became available for the P.C. and back them when you compare the MK graphics to the Wasps bitmaps from the Vic 20 to us we felt like MK was like fucking real! LOL
of course we look back at MK 1 now and laugh at how we could have seen those graphics as almost real life. But compared to VIC 20's squares and asterisks and circles jumping around the screen MK might as well been High Definition 3D. So to us gamer's back then the better the graphics were the more realistic it was anyway. So when you add 3D plus some believable looking moves into the mix Voila! we've got a Martial Arts Simulation! Yes I know it was all marketing, but it was also a feeling by those of us who started out with pixel bitmaps as the main characters in the game. So Femto I understand what you're saying and agree about 90%.

But Virtua Fighter distinguished itself from Tekken, from Street Fighter, from Mortal Kombat etc, by not having fire balls, lighting, flying characters, disappering characters, super punches, fighting kangeroos and panda bears. Sega intentionally left that stuff out, when every other fighting game had one or more of those elements. Sega intentionally made a fighting game that had believable moves (if not real moves), they intentionally didn't have those super long combos, and magic attacks,etc. Even the stages in Virtua Fighter are believable places (if not taken directly from real places).

Because Sega left out all of that fantasy stuff, but included believable, if not realistic stages , with no fighting pandas, and the styles for each fighter was at least based on a style that could be real (some of them are) Its obvious that Sega wanted the gamer, to have a sense of realism that went beyond just the fact that the game was 3D , the realism included the stages, what the characters were wearing, in addition to the moves each fighter had and the names of the fighting styles. Femto, again I don't know how far back you go, but VF was as about as close to a Fighting simulator (without actually being a fight simulator) as you could get back then. Virtua Fighter never did fit in with the other Arcade fighters it never did!

I agree, that the speed difference between the fighting in UFC 3 and VF5FS is considerable, maybe you wouldn't but I'd gladly give up to speed in exchange for a UFC type physics engine.

I like arcade fighters, but I also liked pac man,and my Vic 20 wasps game, Arcade Fighters are no longer state of the art and with respect to UFC Undisputed 3 it is.

 

I'll agree with the juggling removal, too. Combos are good, but keeping someone 'floating' by jabbing them is silly. 'Launchers' could just be turned into 'stuns/dazes' where the opponent is still open to direct, unavoidable damage, but they'd stay on their feet (or drop to their knees/to the ground etc) rather than floating like they're on the moon. There'd need to be a revision on how combos work (at the moment, it's the height of the float that determines the following combo), but it could be changed, and I think it'd look better to an outside perspective on the game. I'm sure the long-time pros would be less inclined to support this though - juggling has long since being a staple of this game.

P.s. lol at the retro 100% life Lau combos.

 

Hit impact is accomplished via good animation and effects. SF4 is, again, the king of the current crop here. Good hit-blocksparks, audio, good animation (SF and I'd say VF are very good at this), and hitpause. Hitpause is big. It gives that roundhouse kick the "oof" feeling and makes hits feel less like characters are swinging at empty air. This lack of weight to hits is quite prevalent in 3d fighters - best avoided in Soul Calibur - and Mortal Kombat. Mortal Kombat is just horrid on that front. No hitpause, the animations for the most part don't have any feeling of gravity to them. (One dude's hook throw has. It's the only one I can remember)

Hitpause causes on-hit option selects though, dunno if people want those.

 

Well, if we're going by realism, I sure as hell wouldn't be wrestling a guy on the ground for 10 minutes in a fight. I'd pick up a brick and smash it over his fucking head.

 

I play VF because it's the best on offer, but that doesn't mean it's perfect or that there are things that would make it even better for me. It's not like we're saying 'zomg chanj da gaime 2 B dis wai ore i kwit!' - we're just speculating on what changes/additions/modifications would be favoured.

Realism is only one factor in making an enjoyable game; UFC games might have more realism, but the gameplay, pace, mind-games, etc are all totally different to VF. Do I make sense?

 

No wonder Lau won the first tournament.

I enjoy VF more than any other game right now, and really want them to change as little as possible, but while we're re-inventing the wheel

I agree that juggle should be toned down. Not removed completely, but as is they're kind of silly. The only problem is, I can't think of a solution that wouldn't result in the game being less fun. Also...

Maybe this is over-ambitious and or stupid, but I think it would be kind of cool if you could only finish off opponents with attacks that have enough force to knock them down. Otherwise, they'll be stuck in a 0 health mode, where they'd be a little more sluggish and easy to KO, but maybe they could also gain some desperation attacks? Nothing stupid, like X-factors or anything, just very high risk, decently high reward kind of things. I think it would be good for spectators at least. Ending the round with 2p is never fun to watch, and if the 0 health player made a comeback that could be entertaining.

 

If they can produce Cgi images like this & and fluent realistic movement along with the already detailed backgrounds then that'd be ok for me. On the downside this would put a hella strain on the console's GPU so something has to be compromised

 

Pure shit :/ I hate that "comeback fashion" among today's fighting games... It's not entertaining, it's just fucking stupid. It should be harder to win for those who are losing, not easier. The comeback is great when it's made by series of right guesses, but not only one which in some sort of freakin' "rage mode" just saved the match for the loser.. That's what is not fun.

 

Gargos had it in Killer Instinct 2. You had to uppercut him to finish him, which was kinda annoying but you should have been trying to Ultra that bastard anyway.

 

This thread just keeps on giving.

 

There are several reasons why most of us prefer VF to other fighters:

1) It is in general balanced (any fighter you pick has a equal chance at winning or losing)

2) It has perhaps the most complete fighting engine available today

3) The fighters are unique with (relatively unique and deep) movelists

4) Its no nonsense realism (lack of fireballs, lighting, kangaroos, and super powers)

The problem is, VF was introduced in an age where launchers, floating, combos were almost by definition main staples of arcade style fighting. So Sega had to include some aspect (notice not as much as the other fighters, but they did include it to some degree) that was in the early 90's, but we're now in 2012 quickly approaching 2013 (unless Mayan prophecies come true) The whole launching, floating thing is not consistent with the rest of VF's no non sense realism, and its obvious. If you have a freaky Yoshimitsu, or Kangaroo, or girl with buzz saws for hands who can remove her head, then you know right off the bat, any thing goes So you expect to see flying, magic, super powers, floating, disappearing, etc. But in Virtua Fighter you have believable fighting styles, believable characters, believable stages, very good 3D graphics that give you a sense of realism, animations that also immerse you into the fight and then BOOM! (launchers and floating). IN 2012 that launching an floating really sticks out because every other aspect of the game has evolved with its realism, the hair, the flowing of the clothes, etc. Back in 1990's with the 3d blocks launching and floating didn't stand out so much. But Today, when you can almost reach out and tap Vanessa on that ass, Launching, floating, and juggling look out of place. It doesn't for the other fighting games, because they all are full of unbelievable shit anyway. Stuff that can't possibly be real (exhibit A, Tekken's robot girl that has buzz saws for arms and can remove her head and use it as a bomb) In those fighters Launching, Juggling, floating, fits right in. But as Virtua Fighter's realism has evolved, it is now more realistic than ever , the launching, juggling and floating sticks out, as almost a contradiction to everything else you are seeing in the game.

I have a major emotional/psychological investment in VF. If I add together all the matches I've fought since VF4 I'm probably over 50,000 matches (including against CPU). I can't begin to even imagine how many hours I've put in to this game. I love the game. But my friends we need to let it evolve and become the game that it was always meant to be. Its trademark, its claim to fame has always been a realistic no nonsense martial arts extravaganza. Removing Launchers, juggling, and floating would be a natural evolution for Virtua Fighter 6.

To ease the transition in Virtua Fighter 6, Sega should give you the option to fight in simulation mode or arcade mode. We know it can be done because in VF4 Evo in the underground tournaments Sega allowed us to experiment with low gravity stages, and high gravity stages, super combos etc. Arcade mode would allow the players that crave the launchers, juggles, and floats to keep on doing their thing. Simulation mode, would allow those of us that want to have that full realism immersion to be fully pulled into the
kung fu movie we always wanted to star in

I play UFC and VF there are things that VF has that I wish UFC had, for example a real like counter part to Akira's style, and a little bit of Lei Fei's Kungfu. On the other hand there are things that UFC has that I wish VF had (like hit physics, perhaps stamina)
I play both fighters. Both are at the top of their genres. When you get deeply into both of them you see how much VF needs to just cross that line, and leave the limitations of being a arcade fighter. VF has far, far, far more potential to grow both as a game concept and in sales/ customer base as a true martial arts combat simulator. I think that was Yu Suzuki's sub conscious vision for Virtua Fighter and IMO I think that is the ultimate destiny for Virtua Fighter (if it is to survive into the next gen of gaming consoles) Virtua Fighter simply cannot compete with Street Fighter, Tekken, or Soul Calibur as a arcade fighter (where the customer base is measured in the hundreds of thousands maybe and occasionally crossing the million player mark). On the other hand as a martial arts combat simulator in the world of UFC, and Fight Night Champion, where there are millions players Virtua Fighter would fit right in, with a few adjustments.

I think Virtua Fighter 6 should take the plunge. Add a simulation mode. Give the player the option between arcade mode and simulation mode (UFC does this already). and be done with it.

 

Wait, wait, for all of you people saying that juggles need to go: If they turn launchers into heavy stuns or something of that nature, how would this game not turn into DOA without all the parry/counter nonsense?

I'm no DOA expert, but once you get "stunned" in that game, your in a stun-state that has a preset amount of damage allowed before you just fall over or get launched. The only way to break that stun would be to successfully guess that next attack and counter.

If VF turned launchers into stun-starters, wouldn't that be extremely irritating to see your character get punched in the face over and over and over because you can't do anything to get out of stun state? Or is my analogy wrong? Would the game then turn into those god awful Street Fighter stun combos where someone (Cody, Gen, etc) can jump in, then jab you in the knee five times, then end with a silly special move, all because the recovery on his punch is quicker than the recovery of the person getting punched?

I don't like either prospect. VF is a realistic ARCADE fighter. It's realism is defined within the confines of an arcade environment. It's designed to be eye candy so people walking by suddenly get the urge to spend money on it.

Juggles, although in the terms of realism look ridiculous, are great eye candy. Removing them would be a tragic mistake.

 

I wouldn't have it so that you can jab into a 5 hit combo or anything. The game would run much the same as it does now, where 'launchers' lead to guaranteed damage - the difference would simply be that the person getting 'launched' would kinda stand there dazed or stumbling (like crumples now?) and take their guaranteed damage without being completely in the air in a horizontal 'laying down' position.

I mean, a messy, unpolished way to think of it would be to imagine that all your 'launchers' now give head/gut crumples, and then the combos just go from there. Usually, from a crumple, there's a lot less 'floating' and it doesn't look as ridiculous as the Jeffry knee into a 6-hit combo.