Virtua Fighter 6

Personally, I would like to see the tracking nonsense removed. Even as a string-spamming Jacky player, it feels wrong that I should be evaded and still rewarded for continuing with my string and landing a counter-hit. I think delayed strings should track, but not fastest-timing inputs. I also think failed evades shouldn't be 'cancelable' with dashes.

These changes would add a bit more risk to everything, and would grant bigger rewards for reading your opponent correctly. Delaying a string would have more value as it would beat follow-ups from evades, but you risk getting counter-hit if your opponent simply guards the first hit rather than evading (unless you're fast enough to hit-check every single stage of all your strings, which would be impressive). Successful evades would be more rewarding and not susceptible to string-mashing, allowing them to be utilised and capitalized, but the risk of a failed evade is also bigger, since you can't cancel it and are likely to eat a launcher, but then, if you didn't evade, your opponent has lost their advantage by delaying for nothing.

Bringing back the 'evade-attack' thing would be agreeable, maybe as a way for an evader to beat out delayed strings. However, I'd have them be less damaging than previously - kinda like a 'poke' from an evade - you give up your chance at punishing your opponent after evading them, but you protect yourself from a delayed string. They'd need to be at least throw/punch counterable to prevent them from being spammed over and over (forcing the attacker into having to delay a strike to break the cycle), and I'd have them be neutral on normal hit, and maybe like +6 on counter hit, rather than the free knock-down. I'd also make them linear and have a lot of recovery frames, such that scouting an evade-attack and doing an evade of your own would net a nice big launcher (since you'd have to be evading from the disadvantage, which would be a nice bonus to prevent abare-spam, since disadvantage evade would have two useful applications then).

On a separate note, I'd like to see less ring-outs and less wall damage. Getting TFT'ed over a low-wall from the middle of the stage just isn't fun, and that kind of dominating, looming presence can ruin a whole fight. There's no reason for any character to be able to rack up over a hundred points of damage just from flicking their opponent into a wall at the right angle. Ring-outs should only be a threat from fairly close to the edge, and should rarely be a threat to the person on the inside - they should be an advantage to the fighter who has maintained their presence and managed to negotiate themselves into a favourable position - not a 'zomg Wolf's gonna grab my legs and hurl me from the ring if we're not squarely in the middle'. I don't mind certain characters having a bit more ring-out potential than others, but it shouldn't even be an issue until we're getting close to the outer border that most rings have.

Walls shouldn't allow players to modify entire combos to double the effectiveness of their launchers, nor should they allow people to rack-up 80 points from any old move that happens to knock you backwards. They should allow a little bit of extra damage (or maybe allow a guaranteed heavy pounce if you hit the wall), and again I don't mind certain characters being able to get a bit more out of them than others, but it's not fun, and it's not good for gameplay, when you just sit there watching one guy getting blasted against the wall for ten second's worth of guaranteed damage.


I'd also like to see less 'advantage-on-guard' stuff. I don't mind some attacks having these properties, but they should come with a heavy penalty (low damage, slow start-up etc) and be quite obvious that they are an advantage-on-guard move. It's not good for the game when newer players, or even more experienced players who simply don't know the properties of a specific character, get bamboozled and beaten out by elementary tactics like abusing advantage-on-guard attacks because they don't know which attacks are advantage and which are not.


Just some more opinions - take them as you will.

 

I disagree (respectfully) with everything genzen wants changed. FS is the closest to perfect VF has ever been (blasphemy I know). And that other guy just didnt know how tracking works( i bet he didt know about evade-nothing vs. evade-attack) They want some things to do far less damage, but then also want other things to be far more punishable, dont those cancel out? EvadeDashCancel is legit tech. It should go Nowhere. Remove it and you may as well play MK

 

The basic mentality for my wishes is to reward guessing/conditioning your opponent's actions, and to limit the amount/effect of 'one-size-fits-all' approaches, particularly defensive techniques that cover a huge array of offensive options - I'd prefer defenders to have to predict/read their opponent's advances, be punished for incorrect choices, and gain advantages for correct ones. Being able to guard all high and mid strikes and break 33% of throws (one of the remaining ones being a weaker one) seems to easy just to fall back on. Being able to evade all linear strikes, crouch high strikes, crouch throws, and guard slower circular attacks just by cancelling an evade into a crouch-dash guard covers far too much, in my opinion.

I know that strong defensive techniques that bail you out of most situations are a favourite amongst VFers so I don't expect much support in advocating their limitation, but it's something I would personally prefer.

 

I'm fairly new to fighters - only been playing them a few months so far (but I sure love them!) In VFFS I play Eileen. So, my comments are from a newcomer's perspective... take them for what they're worth:

I don't understand why ppl are complimenting VF5FS's graphics. They have been reasonably described as 'dated' - quite unimpressive to me, better than VF5 but still not great. Textures, shaders, etc. seem poorly done. As a newcomer to this series, I find the music so aggravating (piano and that stupid flute thing) that I turn it off entirely. I feel that the stage BG's are uninspired. I don't necessarily need BG interaction a la DOA5, but they seem uninteresting.

I admit that I would like a Story mode. I guess Japanese gamers don't care about it, but we do not immediately relate to the characters and it would be nice to have something interesting said about each of them. If it's going to be a typical fighter story, however I'd just as soon forget it.

All that said, I think the fighter genre as a whole needs some revitalization. DOA5 may be leading the way in that regard with good graphics and more accessible gameplay. I doubt it's as serious a fighter but it has the potential to generate more interest in an industry that tends to strike me as sort of mentally dissociated from the rest of the gaming world.

- James

 

The bail-out defensive techniques being gone would lead to more randomness in high-level play, which may not be a good thing to some folks. Either that or it would just encourage more abare.

I still prefer FS's graphics to TTT2's.

 

I don't care for ANY tracking crap in any fighting game---and the floaty juggle horseshit can go away too.

However, I think people are just splitting hairs over the differences in the versions.

As was already mentioned, we all have our favorites, and those who prefer certain versions are always going to be most vocal (in some cases, asininely so) about theirs.
That's just life.

I went back yesterday and played a bit of regular VF 5, and actually enjoyed the subtle differences between that one and FS.
I will probably break out my PS2 and play a bit of VF 4 Evolution and have a peek at the differences there as well.

I know most may not agree, but it is kinda cool when a fighting game series evolves and players can just go back and play previous versions to get a different "flavor" of the same game.

Usually, with fighters, once a new version comes out, it makes the older ones obsolete because many times it is hard to go back to an older version due to the many improvements in a newer version.
That is true with VF to an extent, but for the most pare, one could go all the way back even to VF 1 (I own the 32X version!!), and still play a nice, enjoyable fighting game...tracking hits and levitating jumps be damned.

 

The graphics aren't great thanks to the lighting and textures taking a hit due to DL limitations on XBL. This is nothing new to VF as VF5 is the closest to arcade perfect as we've ever gotten on console.

That's the thing is that people argue about which version is better, while all the VFs are awesome there are certain things I like in each version. Im going through Quest and Licence modes from VF4:EVO, VF5 and FS currently and each one brings something cool to the table.

After having a better understanding of the game, I could see how 5 is too much as you have a lot of movement options on top of MTE, where you can break anywhere from 50%-100% of breaking throws. Myself, I prefer movement options to throw options if I had to choose only one, but at the same time, buffering 2-3 TEs is just as fun as figuring out the opponents step patterns.

Wondering which direction AM2 will take with VF6 is fun, haha!

 

I just got done playing 5 right now and the textures look better than FS, and that's looking past the graphical effects that changed from the stages. Most noticeable was the skin. Maybe I'm noticing it because of the zoomed in camera view in FS?

 

Yeah or maybe it's just denial. I have no doubt FS on Console is as close as possible to it's arcade counterpart. The problem is arcade FS itself looks inferior to VF5 vanilla. Why? FS went this pastel colored route. In VF5 vanilla, All the colors look more realistically lit. It is lit more consistently with what you would see in an actual room in real life. And the textures in vanilla are of a much higher quality. I could see the difference even in the brief time I was making that string evade punish video.

Even a layman can see Vanilla looks better. I brought FS over to a friend's house and he has a 50inch 1080p TV. He casually played VF5 with me back when it first came out for PS3, and he immediately commented that the graphics in FS look poor compared to Vanilla. I had to agree, because when you look at El Blaze and the characters on screen,it's abundantly clear that the textures are of a lower quality compared to VF5. FS looks like you're looking at VF5 with smudged glasses. The textures are fuzzy and less clear and detailed.

Having that crappy plain looking Pai stage as a backdrop didn't help matters either. In Fs everything has exaggerated color tones and lighting, it looks very unrealistic. Due to the downgrade in graphics my friend deemed FS not worth a purchase. It seems they wanted to make everything more colorful with almost cartoon tones to attract more brainless little kids.

I hope VF6 is realistically lit. I hope VF6 has less tracking strings (Thank you, Genzen, at least somebody here isn't drinking the Sega cult Kool-aid). Take out the counter hit for failed evades and backdashes. If Sega wan'ts to make a dumbed down game for dim witted n00bs, they should make another Sonic The Fighters and stop fucking up VF. Lastly I also hope VF6 actually brings some innovation
and new features to the gameplay rather than downgrades.

 

To clarify, I don't agree with the sentiment of 'dim-witted n00bs' and other such derogatory terms and antagonistic remarks - my comments and my position is my own, and not a reflection of anyone else's.

I can't say I've noticed much of a difference in graphics from vanilla to FS. I think FS looks shinier (in the literal sense - there's more 'shine' on things), but the only things that stand out to me are that, for some reason, Kage's arms and fingers look really weird, like they're filled with putty or something, and then the stage that has water on the ground that is kicked up when you move around... that looks like static reception from a TV with no signal. Other than that, both games look fine, and I don't find any of it to be a distraction (aside from the occasional Sarah-upskirt, maybe).

 

The graphics of the characters in 5 are smoother than in FS probably due to that FS is only a digital version & not as much detail was able fit in there. I wouldn't say the graphics of one is "better" than the other, just a little different. Kinda like a Snapdragon processor clocked at 1GHZ vs a Tegra processor clocked at the same speed. If FS was a physical disc copy of the game then yes the graphics would be a lot better than in vanilla

 

I think this just sh*** on everything i just said but this might help.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vf5-final-showdown-face-off

 

Anyone getting beat by a "dum-witted n00b" in this game sucked in the first place, which is 97% of western VF. Heard this shit when VF5 dropped and before about VF4 not being hardcore as VF2. Shit never changes other than the West still sucking at VF.

 

Eat your words, BBS is a Stormlord!

 

I was going to say, I've been playing the arcade version pretty regularly for the last couple months, and I didn't notice any difference in how it looked. Tekken 6, on the other hand, one glance at attract mode and the difference was immediately obvious.

I don't care for 'over-realism' in games anyway, so I'm fine with how it looks. If the game were super realistic, we wouldn't have the awesomely bright fire on El Blaze's pants. Some outfits are obnoxiously shiny, but that was true in vanilla as well. Also, I hate realistic lighting in night time stages. Especially in 2D fighters, but that's irrelevant I geuss.

 

First, what, from an intrerested outsider's perspective VF5 does well:
- Good animation
- Decent, if a bit bland art direction. Dated tech is not an issue, they just need to emphasize character over technical excellence. Technical excellence is so overrated it makes me sick. Good art direction wins on any day of the week using one toe. (this is only in regards to visuals, though)
- Input buffers in combos
- From what I have heard, the netcode
- Lots of yomi

- All characters actually play VF. This is a bit of a personal thing, but I think it's a damn important one. In SF4, there are a handful of characters that just play something that's not Street Fighter at all. They spam burnkicks or are walking mixups that just need to press a button to get in, totally forgoing the footsies/zoning/spacing kind of thing that defines the game. Akuma, and Gen, for example, is a good Street Fighter character for setup lovers: They have to play the footsie game a bit so they can score the KD or jumpin and only then can they go nuts. Having that common feel and common area of contest is important, and also keeps matchups in the realm of winnability. (The most extreme examples in Magic, for example, can completely bypass the game's resource system and rarely even cast spells. They then convert all the unorthodoxness into a combo win or a dominant board position. Not healthy)


Official Coffee Wishlist:
-Better music - the current one is horrid. From what I have heard onstream, the old tracks beat VF5 soundtrack by a mile
- More visual indicators. Now, I'm biased because I think SF4 does nearly everything very well, but look at that game. Smooth animation, and most importantly: Lots of simple, clear visual cues without much extraneous noise. VF5 has good animation and no noise, but the indications for stuff happening are woeful. Much more pronounced hit- and blocksparks and the already mentioned ghosting effects would be good.

- A consistent tone. SF4 is as amazing as it is because the tone and art direction works. It has the right combination of seriousness and caricature. In VF5:FS the lurid startup comments go to the same place the music - the trash bin. They're just bad. The combat, on the other hand, gives me a feel that's largely realistic but a bit exaggeratedor movielike for entertainment - delicious. Except...

- The juggles. Somebody please fucking kill the juggles. Again, tone consistency. In SF4, the juggling works because it's a couple hits, the game has a decent amount of high air already, and the juggling has a feeling of weight to it. In Vf5, it's just jarring. It feels completely out of place and looks utterly silly. You're floating a person with fucking jabs from the side forgodssake. A launcher into some meaty punch or kick seems nice and more impactful than some lurid physics-defying string anyway. Similar thing with wall bounces. Seem to be a tool for Kustom Kombo Time and again juggly wailing on a poor sod. Have folks being NAILED to the wall by something big and meaty.

- The custom costumes. If you want to have relatable characters, these are a complete killer. Complete customization will erase any trace of recognizability from characters and end up in ridiculous, completely immersion-breaking costumes. Tales of woe from a Soul Calibur 5 lobby include a match between Sephiroth and a Shaq-Fu who is dual wielding axes. The next day, James T Kirk. On another day, Tokido. In the previous game in the series, the goddamn motherfucking Death Star. IN A FANTASY SWORDFIGHTING GAME. PLEASE NO, SPARE MY EYES THE HORROR. People buy products to fulfill jobs. That kind of atrocity invalidates the game's job in the long run. Again, preset colour variations and some alternatives are quite fine - SF4 players are quite known for trademark costume colour choices. The character remains identifiable as himself, yet still very much yours.

- Most characters seem quite combo-heavy. A bit more space control and single-meaty-hits type people, perhaps? Changing Akira is probably sacrilege, buy Bajiquan's single strike philosophy might be a good fit?

- Finally, the reason I have not yet played this thing: It is not on the PC. The current HD Twins' game libraries are largely crap apart from Dragon's Dogma and VF5 (SF4 and Dark Souls are on PC), and the future consoles are from what I can see doomed to die anyway (4k resolution? Augmented reality? In an upcoming sweet fairy godmother of a depression? ARE YOU MAD? Plus the movie QTE "deep emotional touching bullshit" story stuff). So PC support just might be an idea. PC gaming has also, at least traditionally, been more cerebral which might be a good fit for VF. Finally, the only competition is SF4. Sounds like a good way to grab some customers to me.

EDIT: And yes, 2P is kind of odd.

 

Lol, that dude isn't beating anyone good.