Virtua Fighter 6

woooow seriously?! Well DAMN! LOL! Why they stop doing this? it worked for 4. It wouldve worked for FS too. advertising through ign for example.

 

There could've been a big fan base if SEGA would release revisions outside of Japan, and in a timely manner. Nothing like telling people about the game, them getting excited, then saying "it's only in Japan"

Once SEGA gives a fuck, we can too.

 

Am I the only one that just wants them to remake VF4FT's system and tweak the existing movelists around it at this point? I'm having trouble seeing how Sega would end up doing better if they continued down the path FS laid out.

 

VF4Evo was the bomb i kinda was hoping they'd do that as well and bring some things over from VF5 R and not FS. FS seems like a watered down American version of R anyway.

 

The thing is the frame data they have know with FS is a nice balance between 4 series and early 5 series, not too fast and not too slow. I wouldnt mind 4's frame data and would actually prefer it, but I would still like 5's stepping and side turned game intact for 6, as well as low throws off stomach crumples coming back.

EDIT: I see people post that FS is watered down and not real VF(lol), but never an explanation that proves FS is a noob's VF. Maybe it's because I have offline comp now, but FS is where VF clicked with me and the thing is, I go back to EVO and 5 and have much better results than before, and yes I completed 4 and EVO training modes and still sucked. Why? Application. Not sure why the application failed to click but it has, for VF and other fighters recently.

 

I dislike it because of the number of very (relatively) low risk defensive techs. The game isn't designed around being able to do ECDTEG. If your character doesn't have a good and reasonably fast mid or low (half-)circular, then you've already got a problem. Easy TE is well-intentioned but sooo dumb when there are only 3 throws, and neutral P+G still sucks for most chars, and they did not bother to adjust the throw damage at all for the new life count. 33/33/33 makes sense, but don't let people be able to buffer the TE to infinity in light of all this, wow.

In VF4 being able to time a delay launcher could shut down evades, unlike in FS where you're lucky to hit a properly executed ECDTEG with a small move. Not having to deal with fuzzy past -2 also ensured that the opponent was forced commit to something more often (EMTEG, TEG, abare, backdash) which the entire cast had tools to punish consistently.

 

A good feature that i think would be beneficial would be like a match recorder where you are recorded but instead of just being able to watch the replay you can fight yourself and capitalize on your own flaws over and over that'd be cool. You can watch yourself get better overtime.

 

Didn't they try something like this back in the VF4 days? It was something along the lines of train your own AI or something. I don't remember it being all that great as the AI would try to mimic and learn from you, but would still fall for the same stupid stuff over and over.

 

They probably did but im sure i was waaaay 2 young to remember. But i hope they could bring it back-not having the AI do anything on its own per say, but just have it record your moves from start to finish of a match and maybe throw in something like where it learns your habits and favorite moves etc.

 

That mode was different than what was being suggested. You basically just beat up a dummy, and then watched it go through kumite trying to mimic your attack patterns. It was kind of neat in its own way, but definitely unrefined.

To add a little bit of whining / suggestion to this thread; make customization in the arcade version less of a scam, oh my god, please. I'm not even saying don't make it a scam, just make it LESS of a scam. I'm poor, and shouldn't be spending all my money in the arcades in the first place. You shouldn't have to pay money to use the slot machine thingy, buy new colors, AND equip them, in addition to other stuff I haven't even bothered with. You get all of two minutes on one of those consoles for 100 yen, it's kind of insane.

 

Wow i haven't played the arcade version lol thats weak that you have to pay to EQUIP the item! damn! & 100 yen i'd rather go to a 100yen shop & blow my money that way. There should be an option to either buy items or unlock them through some type of mode, but u should never have to pay to equip an item thats ridiculous

 

In VF4 being able to time a delay launcher could shut down evades, unlike in FS where you're lucky to hit a properly executed ECDTEG with a small move. Not having to deal with fuzzy past -2 also ensured that the opponent was forced commit to something more often (EMTEG, TEG, abare, backdash) which the entire cast had tools to punish consistently.[/


Even in ECDTEG the opponent is still vulnerable from the CD and the fact they are guessing on 1 TE. The TE has to be held for 2-3 frames and the guess has to be right on top of that. EDCFG is a better option since you negate the throw entirely without having to guess, but even that still has it's holes.

Using neutral throw is just like using your weakest throw option when there was MTE. It's there for the mix-up to throw off your opponent and if you can make it a viable threat through the use of something like Oki, for example. That's VF isn't it? The goal of any fighting game is to not be predictable.

Gonna disagree on that Throw damage example you gave. That is just way too homogenous for the entire cast.

The punishment is still there and you still have to commit the things you mentioned.

 

Unadjusted throw damage does matter, even if it is homogenous in terms of damage amounts, since it makes the option of doing a throw less rewarding for every character in the game. Since there are characters that are balanced around being able to specifically have higher or lower damage from throws, this skews the balance in favor of characters with stronger strikes.

In VF4, remember that you had a specific window to buffer a TE. Throws also did a lot more damage proportionally because the lifebars were 200, not 220. You had, at a minimum, 4 throw directions. Since it's still the case that sometimes a throw did less damage but had greater ringout potential or okizeme potential, or had a simpler motion, making it easier to buffer. So with more throw directions available to you and more opportunities to land a throw, you had more options.

Just as a quick, specific example: Wolf had +, which would often have an extra frame tacked onto the input because of the motion, it also did 70 damage, roughly 1/3rd of the opponent'ss lifebar. Then, in FT AM2 added Snap Meyer at + -> , which could be buffered quickly and had an entirely different ring and oki position. + was preferable in most cases where you had time to buffer the throw or CD, but you at least had these options available to you on what was basically Wolf's 3rd best throw direction.

As for defensive techs, let's set out what they all negate:

ECDTEG negates the following options at around -5 to -8 (?):

-high circulars
-throw delays
-one immediate throw
-any immediate linear attack
-slower (oftentimes more damaging) delayed linear attacks (guarded)
-most catch throws

What is it vulnerable to:
-specifically timed, fast delay attacks (i'm guessing 14 frames is the threshold of consistency here, depending on the disadvantage the opponent entering the ECDTEG was in)
-mid and low circulars
-the throw they didn't break (you only have 2 good directions now, they'll take one)
-wait it out and take the frame advantage

So, you know the opponent is good at doing this, and you're looking for it with the above options when you're + frames. We're thinking strategically now, your opponent knows you're looking for ECDTEG - With most characters, literally every one of these responses to beat ECDTEG can be beaten by abare except waiting it out, and depending on the type of risk the opponent is willing to take, they will actually have strong (read: rewarding) options versus an opponent conditioned to look for ECDTEG. They can launch your throw attempt, or use a quicker attack to beat your slow circular and your delay attack if the launcher doesn't work for that purpose. EDIT: My point is - the changes to the flow of the game in VF5FS serves the defender, especially when compared to VF4. It's not that offense is less rewarding than defense in this game, but that your offensive approach ultimately has to be a lot safer in VF5FS on the whole. It sort of cripples your offensive options, in other words.

As for something like backdash in disadvantage, shared between VF4 and VF5, again - think strategically. If you can stay close to the opponent because you have stronger, less risky defensive options, why not keep doing that? Why risk getting CH when you can just fuzzy at -4 in lieu of backdashing? It's still strong to punish a whiff off a backdash, don't get me wrong, but it's not any better or more consistent than it was in VF4 - and now there's a chance where for simply inputting it you will eat a counterhit! WTF?

 

I'd like to see VF6 go in a more simulator type direction.

Do away with the stupid looking floaty bullshit that every other fighting game seems obliged to have, and instead, focus on making the movements feel more impactful, with more relevence to weight, momentum, and placement of hits...like real martial arts would.

Incredible meta games within the game matches could exist.

El Blaze hits Taka Arashi or Wolf with several round kicks to knot up the big mans thighs...not doing a whole lot of damage at first, but begins to slow the big man down, meanwhile, he ALWAYS has to be vigilante of that powerful blow from the big man that would knock him senseless and has the potential to end his fight quickly.

Or Sarah hits Jacky with a nasty rib punch, cumpling her brother sideways...he can't really react right away due to the pain, but he does have a few deflects that can try to fend off his sister as he tries desperately to recover from the nasty blow

Or even Jeffry McWild grabs ahold of Lion, but instead of some canned throw animation, LIon has the chance to not only release himself from the throw, but possibly, if he is fast enough make some small strikes back at Jeff during the throw attempt to try to disrupt it...being careful however, that McWild can do the same, take small shots at Lion (at the cost of his full throw animation of course) with the idea that if he can subdue Lion enough, he can then attempt his full power throw once again.

Just small examples. All may not work within the framework of the game, but I think most of you get the idea.

Things like the above would probably make the game more difficult as the depth would be unprecedented, but for the initiated, it would be MOST satisfying.

Perhaps in the options have sliders or dip switches where one can turn on/off 'cumulative damage' during a match.
You know, for the sake of beginners.

Yes, yes I know, "But people, especially noobs don't WANT something overly difficult to play"...
Well, which is why I suggested the sliders or dipswitches. Look, general sports games have been doing that for years now.

Also, seeing as how, outside a niche hardcore group, the game isn't being accepted by the mainstream anyways and it likely won't unless Sega decides to go some DOA or Tekken route (i.e. more button mashing, insane speed, and over the top stuff) that caters to the spaz crowd.
Which I hope, BTW, NEVER happens.

So why NOT simply go in a bold direction and see who follows? What have they to lose?

And some other changes, I know story really isn't important in fighting games, but you could still have background for each character.Just keep them simple and to the point.
If you're not really going to have a semblance of a story, no need to go all longwinded and convoluted on character backgrounds. Nuff said on that.

And the voice acting.
Ok, I know many like the corny, stupid sounding win/entrance quotes, mannerisms, etc..
But come on people....its old now.
Yes, I too laughed when Jeffry would say something asinine like "Be--hooold my Fiz---zeeek" or when Jacky says dork stuff like "leeeeessss talk moooooore actionnnn" and all the stupid ass mannerisms and voice inflections that went with it (oh, and we can't leave out El Blaze's "My bo--dy...is an unstopp--able.......WEAPON!", as he does some weird model runway pose flexing his back).

Come on people. Just ridiculous.

How about getting some GOOD voice actors, and giving the game an edgy, almost dark vibe with characters sounding like they REALLY want to kick someone's ass, and go out of their way to deride their opponent for a particularly bad match (one sided) or even sound a bit grudgingly respectful afterwards if the match was close.
All done with completely aweseome voice tones, inflections, and some ambient background music or ominous sound effects (get rid of the D-level wannabe garage band rock please!)

Anyways, as a martial arts practitioner and former instructor, I'd LOVE for there to be a game that leans heavily towards martial arts simulation while still not quite going into UFC or Wrestling game territory, mind you.

 

ppl, who play other fighting games, know about VF. Its not a matter of advertising. I am a VF fan boy, but I have so many criticisms of the game. Its just too stripped down. It doesn't have enough modes to keep the attention of the casual fighting game fan. Let's face it the casual players are where the real numbers are. Hardcore plyrs pick up VF and never put it down, they don't need advertising, or game modes. Hardcore plyrs are happy with VS mode, and online mode. But casual fighting game players want/need/expect story mode, survival modes, timed modes, arcade modes, tournament modes, etc. Stable online code and VS. mode is simply not enough to keep new comers and casual players coming back.


I have so many ppl on my friend's list that were down with VF the first couple of days, they climbed to maybe hunter or raider ranks, and then just dropped off, they're back to playing tekken, SC, SF, DOA, etc.. What it boils down to is VF has very weak Single Player modes, and VS modes. new comers, and casual fight fans will only Visit VF, because there is not enough there to keep them coming back. Why is this true?

Well, intermediate to hardcore players have maybe triple or quadruple the skill sets of newcomer and casual players. The newcomer downloads VF. get's online, and get's devastated over and over. So they log off, and go to single player to learn to play and enjoy the game, but! missing are most of the modes that you find in other fighting games, So they mess around a little with arcade mode, and leave VF for more variety in the fighting game. Nobody likes getting on line just to get smashed over and over again.
and arcade mode get old after a day or to.

Features that should be in VF6

player configurable routes for Arcade mode (let player design which 6 fighters and the order) c'mon Sega there are 1000's of permutations (20,6)

player selectable routes for Arcade mode

Special Sparring Sessions should have random fighters for each group, for example the grab bag fighters should be different each time you select that group.

Add loadable player 1 and player 2 profiles for VS mode play

Your license Class status should be part of your player profile both offline and online. You should not even be allowed to get promoted to Hunter unless you have a License Class of B or higher. Your License Class should show in player mode, rank mode, room mode.

Sega should add back your PR statement and screen names for Online modes, Vs modes and Single player.

Should be able to save Replays for Score Attack mode. It would be nice to see how some of those High scores were achieved!

ALL MOVES IN THE MOVELIST SHOULD HAVE DEMONSTRATION MODE! This is so standard in every fighting game, how could Sega only have demonstrations for some moves. C'mon Sega!

VF desperately needs a Tournament mode (single player, vs, and online) VF5 and VF4EVO almost had tournament modes, Sega could build off of those.

VF needs a randomly generated Survival mode (up to 100 fights) in single player.


If Sega were to add these features/modes to the VF5FS stock game, We would definitely
keep far more of the players of Visit Virtua Fighter

 

How about playing Tekken instead. I'm an incredibly depressed person and VF's terrible voice acting is one of the few things that makes me happy. VF will never be edgy, trying would be pointless.

 

Tekken's alright but no where near the sim type game I would like for VF6.
And this thread isn't about Tekken.

 

I have been lurking on and off since 2001 or so and this thread has some the worst post of this forum. Ever. If this thread is even slightly representative of the new direction of VF, I am going to buy a Wii U and forget there was ever any fighting games.

Anyway. For VF6 they should go back to their VF2/VF4 roots.

* A stricter system, like EVO. Knowledge and skill, not yomi.
* Do away with the pad-friendly bullshit, all of it. Allow the player to do any number of TEs during an evade. Stricter motions, struggles after elbow etc etc. Most players have a stick anyway and I want the rest to quit VF as fast as possible.
* No matchmaking/ranking whatsoever (at least the console version should be lobbies only). Solves all of the problems that comes with it. Those who look to enlarge their e-penis can look elsewhere. They usually do not learn the game properly anyway but resort to meta-bullshit like disconnecting.
* Fewer moves for all characters. In VF you need to know the frames of every freaking move, it is already too much to learn. Reduce complexity that requires memorization, increase system complexity instead.
* Speed the game back up to EVO levels (lol, I am too old to keep up with FS, but faster is more fun anyway).
* No story mode, no item BS, no endings. Game play and balance, nothing else will determine the longevity of the game.
* One new character. Not more.
* Do not update graphics, do not change voices. Do nothing expensive. Instead, make the game as cheap as possible and sell it to the hardcore. Make it really cheap for arcades, even allow them to purchase and run the console version (just look at how SF4 is handled in Japan and do the same thing).

I do not think many will agree with this post. But whatever. I am too old for video games anyway. =)

 

Some things just can't happen

-MIcrosoft mandates ranked/player match, so you can't get rid of that (wouldn't be a bad idea though)

the PR statement/customizing banners was removed due to chance of folks being profane with it.

Making a game super-hardcore and making a game cheap is a recipe for unprofitability.

Personally, FS was a step in the right direction- but they need to keep going in that direction- make side throws either inescapable or give multiple side throws so you have to guess out (I'd prefer inescapable)

I'd like to see evades have risk that can't be reduced, but also higher reward

I'd also like to see characters have clearly defined weaknesses- some do, but many have their problems covered too easily in FS.