Virtua Fighter 6

IMO VF5FS is the perfect 3D fighter. Great competitive game. But with the offline modes, it would be nice to cater that to casual fans and see a story mode. I know many competitive players don't play fighting games for the story, but it's always a nice addition to gain more casual support. (Well VF has a storyline, it's just never included in the games).

I'd prefer it if they bumped up the stage design. It's always been simple and clean stages in VF with beautiful backgrounds. Although it would be nice to see more depth added to the stages.

Everything else to me is fine. I don't have much experience to speak on character buffs, or nerfs nor system changes

 

If they were gonna include a story mode, I think they should do one that explains all the previous tournaments and go in depth on the rivalries and champions. I know they at least acknowledge who won each tournament in the manuals.

I'd be fine with some CG endings after clearing arcade mode. SCV and DOA5's story modes pissed me off. MK9's I enjoyed on the other hand.

But VF has always been about the combat and nothing else, I don't want the developers to get distracted.

 

Just wondering what VF you guys were playing that didnt have high damage?

FS is no different from other VFs in the damage department aside from 1-3 where the damage was high. It needed to be though, since rounds were 30 sec. 45sec is the max a round in an FG should take as it makes games faster in timing, reactions, reading and thus desicion making which is what makes VF, VF.

FG Beast: it sounds like you want VF to be linear. You talk about damage being to high, but then talk about too many defensive techniques. So do you want less damage and less defensive techniques?

 

I personally wouldn't mind a story mode of some type. It's not necessary for me to enjoy the game as I really don't care about the characters' backgrounds, but I'm also not a "casual" to this game. However I do recall playing with a friend a long time ago and he asked me "So, why is this dude (Akira) fighting that dude (Wolf) in the promo vid? Are they rivals or something?" Needless to say, trying to explain how a Japanese Hakkyokuken master ended up becoming rivals with a Canadian Indian wrestler was a bit tough...

If they did the story mode "right" it could pull in more players to the game. Even if the story totally sucks, it'd atleast expose people to the awesome fighting system who would otherwise have never experienced it because it didn't have a story.

At the same time, a story mode like SC5's would be terrible.

 

its like you read my mind

 

I don't mind the damage as long as they make it more consistent across the board. Every character can do high damage in FS but it is harder for weaker characters compared to Jacky for example. If that is what they want to do fine just fix the hit boxes so it is more consistent. As 1 example if 2 Vans do 6K+G and they don't backdash why should 1 hit and the other miss even though the spacing should have allowed both of them to hit at the same time. Give weaker character a few higher damage options but don't go overboard with them because people like eileen and pai for example tend to be more about their mixups than damage and that should always be their focus in my opinion. I don't have an issue with big characters having big damage they should as walking tanks but do so within reason too. They do a decent job of that but they can do a better job of it.

Overall I don't have too many big gripes about the game aside from the hit box issues and balancing of damage for everyone not just the select few. Bigger character should keep their damage just make sure weaker character have a few more options in this area too in away that makes them hard to spam in real matches like making them -16 or more on block or something like that. I want to see how this game evolves in VF6 it should be fun to watch. I am not a big fan of evade cancelling either you either block or evade you should be punished for them if you guess wrong. I don't see why it was included but oh well FS is what is it and I actually like it too especially how they made Pai as good as she is now.

 

If there were to be a story mode I would rather have it be the quest mode but more fleshed out. No other game does that kind of thing. The quest mode could be like a story mode but just not about the VF universe but about the arcade culture surrounding the game. I'd love that kind of thing. I've heard some non-VFers talking good about the quest mode in vanilla, and that was not very fleshed out at all. I believe a regular story mode wouldn't stand out at all.

 

Linear isn't the right term IMO but I can see what you mean. What I'm talking about is how strategy is diminished because of high damage and the absolute need to do EDCTE for everything because of the high damage.

When I mean high damage, I should caveat it by saying high damage for the level of risk people have to take to get it. If you have to open yourself up to get big damage, that's fine, but there are plenty of moves sets that have risk-reward profiles that are messed up, which I think is the primary reason many people spam. Best cure for this would be to probably normalize damage a bit across the weight classes or just tone down the whole weight class thing in general and make more moves far more punishable so if you go for something, it better be because you set it up.

In regards to defensive techniques, it's more that if you reduce the damage output, then you don't need something like EDCTE and defense becomes more about reading your opponent and less about pushing buttons.

For example evading could be solely evading and that's it. No throw escapes and no canceling. You evade and your opponent goes for a circular or throw, he got you, end of discussion. Like I said, 95% of most characters move list will be beaten by evade and result in a side turn situation. Why does it need to be any more powerful? This would make blocking more important because evading can't cover as many options.

To me, option selects fundamentally ruin depth unless everyone has ways of beating them and all those ways are viable. Fuzzy guarding I'm fine with because most characters have ways of beating fuzzy guard so you can view it as just another defensive choice although the disparity of tech to beat it is still pretty bad in IMO. EDCTE however is powerful enough that very few characters have an effective means around it. Maybe I haven't spent enough time in the lab, but in my testing the only effective means of beating it 100% is low-full circulars. Some characters have slower full low circulars that can be blocked on reaction after a EDCTE attempt, which makes it pretty much a death sentence since most characters get HUGE damage off of blocking a low circular. Also most people do the EDCTE on reaction and then just look for an incoming slow low.

I guess for me, what I want is for there to be no "optimal strategy" in VF. By making the damage less, but defense techs less, people would be exchanging small blows in the process of figuring each other out. Then, people can adapt and move from there to go for bigger things. By having high damage, the only viable defensive strategy is EDCTE because you need to get damage anyway you can, but because there are ironclad defensive techniques against a lot of characters, you need high damage. It's a vicious circle.

I think the game will be far more open if the damage is reduce (or scaled to risk properly), weight classes are normalized and crazy defensive tech like EDCTE is reduced so you actually have to make educated guesses as to what your opponent is going to do.

 

Delays and throw mix ups work. There is only a a 1 in three chance to escape a throw. It isn't really necessary to explain the technique to new players. They have other stuff to learn. EDTE to fuzzy guard was more difficult and powerful in VF 5. Double Throw escape guard was more difficult in vf3 to VF5... Anyone more versed in the technical side of the game can correct me here if I am wrong.

 

That's what makes VF though is how active the game is for both players in offense and defense, so having the defensive tech the game has, is what makes the game so engaging.

ECDTE can be good but people are moving onto EDFG, since Forward Dash is faster than Forward Crouch Dash in startup and canceling on top of not having to guess on the TE since the Fuzzy ( the 1st one in this example) negates the throw entirely.

That's been the big thing for the 5 series in general, that's been over looked at the most, is what your opponent does when they go into a Failed Evade Cancel. ECDTE for example has to be looked at, as how you beat the Crouch Dash. As a grappler, it's with Low Throws, as a Striker it's with fast Mid, generally speaking. Lows and over heads work as well, the key is to look at your opponent's habits which is always been what VF is about.



Tricky just found a tech that punishes EDC options recently, that I'm wagering we're in Vanilla as well, much like the Fuzzy Guard-Attack OS.

 

wait Fuzzy guard attack offensive slide? Someone explain?

 

OS = Option Select in,thus case.

 

I think people underestimate how important story mode is to casual players. They need some enticement to play and try the various fighting systems. If you are asking these players to just buy the game and go straight online you're just asking to lose loads of potential players. No one likes getting the sh*t kicked out off them by dudes online. If this is all that is available to them then it's very unlikely they will persevere to get good.

If there is a quest mode with a nice story that's great for them. Especially if it also teaches them the game by asking them to perform wins in various ways to progress. Then when they are ready they can seek out some real competition.

But the VF story is a nonsensical mess. In terms of fighting games I think only DOA has a more nonsensical story. Tekken used to do story right with the whole Mishima beef but even they've lost it now. So Sega would need to get some decent writers in if they want to go down this route.

 

I think it seems that they want to go away from VF as a "story game", atleast on the surface, and focus more on it as a "sport", if you know what i mean?.

I actually liked the pretend-arcade systems from VF4-Evo, and VF5 more then i would have some sort of story with made up beefs between the chars, but opinions differs of course : )

Gamplay-wise, i have not thought that much on how they could re-balance/improve the dynamics more at the moment.

But content and customization-wise, i have some wishes:

1. More and more of items, cloth-junk, and special stuff to style your fighter with.
1-b. - Use that item-points system, but perhaps make it grow in points the higher rank one achieves, like (10-1 Kyu = 5 Item Point), 1-10 Dan (10 item points), and then 2 more for each tier of 3 ranks, to a higher maximum.
The silly, but fun idea is that it can really show a bit extra when you met a high ranked player.
1-c. Actually, as choice, i wouldn't mind even more item/clothes pack for everyone every month or so, for a sensible DLC-price, if the incentive works and so.

2. Aside from ranked matches, and player matches,
it would be fun as entertainment, to be able to set up room-matches with various odd rules. Like Gravity-percentage, Frame-delays, making only certain types of moves damaging and what not - it could be fun to experiement with when wanting to take the load off the serious fighting.

 

I think that if you're going to do a story mode, it can't be half-assed, and you need strong flavor to the characters-- which I don't necessarily think VF has in spades. Street Fighter, with the crazy stuff, as well as MK lend themselves to great story modes (I think MK is hands down the king in this).

On the other hand, take Tekken, which I used to play a lot back on PS2 (Tekken 2), and I think its story mode is a bit half-assed-- with the exception of Kazuya's and Heihachi's drama which is a really good dynamic story wise (almost like a Greek or Shakespearean drama in their father/son hate).

I think that where VF shines for solo modes has been on its quest mode, the AI training mode of Evo, and the supposed ability of the AI to learn from you and adapt to you in VF2 on the PC.

This last one for the PC, I'm not too sure worked because I would look at the file that was supposed to store the AI knowledge, and see it remain at a whooping 0 KB, lol. However, just the thought that I would have access to an AI that would adapt to my play style or at least copy it was enough to raise my excitement tenfold.

Bottom-line, I think that the core of most fighting games is in the feel of competition, otherwise they're just not worth replaying. To beef up a solo mode, in my opinion, you have to beef up the feel that you're being constantly challenged like a human would.

In fact, maybe part of what would increase the appeal would be to strengthen online modes even more and equip the game to handle all the annoyances that people complain about as far as 'scrubby' play, dodging, etc. You could probably take a page from social sites on this, and have people reward others with votes for style, respect, taking on all comers, and any other ways of supporting the stuff that the community really values.

Also, on the online play, I'd love to have a feature like SFIV that lets you play single mode yet be open to be challenged online. That way you don't have to wait around online when there's nobody, and can kill time with the CPU until someone decides to challenge you.

 

Let's replace the name Quest with Arcade Circuit and really flesh out a mode like 5's. Give it foreseeable goals and accomplishments, with a focus on challenging more and more difficult and life-like opponents, and to win bigger and bigger tournaments held at different arcades.

 

I'm still pretty damn novice in 5FS but since I began playing it since it was released on console I have become a huuuuuuge fan. New Capcom disgusts me and for as long as I've been playing Namco fighters I still can't stand their game mechanics. For the record I'm a long time MvC2, GG, and SFIII player; I dabbled with VF since the beginning but it really never hooked me, until now. So, here's what I feel about what VF6 should have as I feel I represent the non-casual-tournament-aspiring player.

FS is REALLY fucking good, if you ask me. For, pretty much, any BS that someone can do, it feels like there's always a way around it. I don't feel I have the authority to make suggestions on gameplay mechanics but either way, I am under the impression that the game is well balanced and the devs know what they're doing.

I feel that for Sega to have a much better chance in wooing new players and keeping existing player hooked they absolutely have to innovate they're online system and matchmaking. FS's netcode feels really good to me and I'd hope that, with time, they can only make it better. It's definitely not perfect as matches feel a bit slower than IRL and I feel like there are missed inputs every now and again.

If matchmaking was quick, effortless, and had a multitude of options players would be much more ready to play more often. They should add a "# of players online" as well as a background map of the world showing concentrations of players per region. The option to view bars and or ping would be so good. They need to minimize the amount of button presses it takes to get into a match. Along with this, I feel that all fighting games, not only VF, need seamless menus. I can't stand having to go from ranked unranked offline and online menus. That can honestly be fixed with some toggles and streamlining. More options and less menus! I understand completely that FS was really just put on console to get ti there and working well but for the next full release players will expect much more effort put into the interface. I'm confident that players will spend more time playing VF6 online if the experience offers very little inconvenience.

Ranked matches should have options for how much rank disparity you'll want to have when finding an opponent. Also, opponents usernames and character choices should be blind. In this aspect Namco got it right in which you get a notice that a fight is available but you only get the connection quality of your opponent. This helps lessen the amount of people that dodge matches. Also, I say this in discussion for every.fucking.game but they should disable the start menu during ranked matches. It has no purpose at all except for giving quitters an easy way out. The more you inconvenience those players, the less they'll play/act like that.

Lobbys need options for muting specific players. As well as flourishes and options for communicating without mics. I think it would be great if maybe there was a way that Lobbys could have a touney-like setting in which you would play someone who is currently not playing so long as you didn't play against them last. That way having large rooms (6 people and up) doesn't bore the players with shorter attention spans. Obviously there should be an option to wait and watch matches in progress.

Replay saving is great but the options and menus need work. Rewinding, fast forward, and slow mo are some options I'd love to see. Also, it'd be great to be able to follow certain player, hell even better if we could automatically download they're matches or have them placed in a play list. Youtube and/or community options would be greatly appreciated. Recording metrics on players and their habits would be another great addition.

Customization is also going to be a big thing. I feel most can agree that customization is one of the big non-gameplay factors in maintaining interest. FS has a lot of good stuff but for the next game I think they can easily do 3 times as much. I feel that the outfit options could be consolidated into the existing menus without having to reset and pick from separate p1-p5 choices. This design decision in FS is obvious but VF6 would do well to have a vast, open customization. VF is one of the original ranking games and I feel that after all this time, there is a lot more they can be doing in that department. Part of this I feel would be to merge rankings and customization. They could place a heavy emphasis on rankings and playstyles affecting special items you can receive. Having flair for beating certain characters, ranks, or meeting certain requirements would make for more dynamic characters/players. I feel that rankings and such should remain as mysterious as possible, this forces players to explore and keeps people from trying to game the system (though this is an inevitability). Other games are doing community challenges and events. I feel that VF should follow suit.

Most anything else I could bring up has already been addressed. I really do hope that they reach out to the community (as they've seemed to been pretty good with) in what we will want to see in the new game.

Oh yeah: FUCK THE BRYANTS ;P

 

As long as i'm not forced to play it to unlock anything im 100% ok with a story/quest/campaign mode.

That's the problem i had with DOA, aside from, you know, the other problems i have with DOA?

 

Why the VF4:EVO single player is not the gold standard in VF5 and FS us beyond me other than SEGA is run by a bunch of not-so-bright people.

For console stuff: bring back player statistics, so people can see where they need to improve and accel at.

Quest Mode us cool, by leave in the Fighters Megamix/FS path choosing.

Customizations: Make them unlockable and DLC. I grinded in VF4, EVO and 5. FS was nice, but I know people like unlocking things.

License Mode is awesome but it took too long to get to. Let us have choices ala EVO of.certain challenges that use mechanics from the game to help them improve and use the system. Having missions like "win 10 matches without back dashing" is awesome.

Unlockables: The series is 20 years old, show us some history the West wasn't privy to. The art and wall papers were awesome. The video demonstrations of the guy playing one handed is still awesome. BRING THAT BACK!

Exhibition matches!

Have the Half-Gravity, Combo Maniacs, See-Saw etc. etc. modes be 2 player as well. Sega has already done awesome single player content with VF, they just need to keep doing it and expand on what they have already done. Are the blue prints still not there?