Virtua Fighter 5 Update

Re: VF and the US marketplace

just a quick data i got from SRK.com. I think it was omni...or someone who works for sony...so he has the market sales figures


DOA3: 900K-ish sales

DOAU- 180K-ish sales.

dramatic sales difference~ Despite it being online enabled.

 

Re: VF and the US marketplace

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Darrius_Cole said:
SNIP

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-What you said is true, also,when you analyze the people in the Us market place, you will find that many of them will simply pick up an xbox game whether it has online play or not. This would benifit Vf tremendously.

-It should be noted that there needs to be a seperation between both online and offline play. You are talking as if online play is there to remove offline play..on the contrary, its a tool that is used to get players together for casual play. You will still be required to play Vf offline for competitve reasons. Online Just makes it easier to gather potential players and peek their interest.

-Even with Doa2U not being the most technical, there is no way you can have sound competitions during online play. Lag is lag that will still mess up your execution, and your reaction, whether its something simple as pressing punch, or something a little more complex such as Slow escaping~back dash or something like that. I wouldnt call characters even when there are Bad match ups, and characters who are consistently Top/mid/bottom.

-If vf was online, you would come to find out that a character who is not a threat offline(Ayane), will some how have their abilities increased due to lag. This is simply the draw back of having a fighter online. Those players who are thirsty for pure comp, will come off online and seek the fulfillment of offline play...Building up the offline scene.When this is all said and done, You have to ask yourself this: "Is having online play better than having no form of human interaction?"

 

Re: VF and the US marketplace

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Those players who are thirsty for pure comp, will come off online and seek the fulfillment of offline play...Building up the offline scene.When this is all said and done, You have to ask yourself this: "Is having online play better than having no form of human interaction?"

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This problem is already solved by AM2.... It's called the arcade. When VF5 comes out, no one will be able to play it except in the arcades. In a country like Japan, it's much easier to go your local arcade and find good competition to play right on day 1. There is no need to build up the community with online play. When an online enabled home version comes out a year later, most of the non hardcore players will have dropped out, and the hardcore are not likely to adopt a laggy version of the same game they can play lag free easily. It's that simple, and VF is much more popular in Japan anyways. What AM2 is doing is very logical and well thought imo, that improving VF.net for the arcade scene is what will expand the number of players.

We are forgetting an important detail in the discussion. Home VF already doesn't sell well in Japan and US, will an online enabled version really expand the market? Definitely not in Japan, and do people honestly think it will in the US? People are not going to be a game just because it's online, if it's a game that you simply just don't like, would you buy it just because it was online?

 

Re: VF and the US marketplace

Very true, i don´t see how many people are thinking online play is the holy grail of games and makes them immediately profitable, the sad truth is that most people are too lazy to get into a game like VF, i´ve had friends tell me it gives them migraines, i´ve had friends back away solely by looking at the movelists, hell i even had one that backed away after fighting me for the first time (after he practiced for two weeks and said he would beat me)
what i´m getting to is that outside of japan, VF is not considered to be a good game by the people, granted, the high scores in game magazines and the good graphics might sell it to many(and evo did) but, in reality, how many of those copies of evo that got sold do you think still get played?, or are even still in the original buyer´s hands? i bet you there are thousands of copies that ended back in the used games bin at the local EB.

online play will not make all those people that dissed vfevo buy vf5, EVEN despite it´s shiny presentation and superb graphics, it will still be an inaccessible game to them, i mean seriously, the majority of people in this planet can´t remember a full 2d character movelist, let alone the neverending barrage of commands for a 3d fighter, not mentioning the outside factors, juggles, frame data or defensive techniques (wich are absolutely a must know)

i´m not saying they should change the game, i love it the way it is, just don´t expect that gimmicks will make the community of players larger, if anything it will only bring together the community that already exists, and all that community will get frustrated after 2 months of online play.

 

Re: VF and the US marketplace

What does SNIP mean?

Why does lag help Ayane more than it helps any other character? The internet doesn't know that it should be kinder to her.

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By Srider
We are forgetting an important detail in the discussion. Home VF already doesn't sell well in Japan and US, will an online enabled version really expand the market? Definitely not in Japan, and do people honestly think it will in the US? People are not going to be a game just because it's online, if it's a game that you simply just don't like, would you buy it just because it was online?

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You mean like the copy of DOA:Ultimate that I bought just so that I could play a fighting game against other people?
I am arguing that a game like VF needs time and competition to grow its market. VF is a game of sport. To thrive it needs to have people practice (such as at home one a console in the US), and then to go to some form of gathering and show their skills (such as an arcade or online).

In the US it doesn't sell well because it was designed from the ground up for a significantly different marketplace. It is designed to thrive in places where large groups of men use it to compete against one another. That is not the reality in the US marketplace. In large groups people can practice and compete, then practice some more and compete again. In the current US market there are almost no such large gatherings. Sega's current US strategy is to ask players to practice their skills for nothing. If you can never get the slow gratification that comes from time practicing and defeating a worthy opponent, then you have to settle for the instant gratification of mashing. Enter Soul Calibur - (A, A, B, Crouch, B, B, A.)

 

Re: VF and the US marketplace

to put it roughly

Imagine a new player who has just learned to eqteg only to have his hours of extreme training to be negated by lag. Or people who spend time studying frame data, only to get destroyed by a button masher, because the buffer is desynchronized.

Vf online will attract some new players, but how many "dedicated players". What is it worth to sega to invest thousands in R&D and testing for a feature that wont be even used in japan. It may grab a small handful (50-150) of dedicated new players everywhere else in the world. Also the lag problem will still exist, no matter how much has been invested. At best, VF online is only a fun novelty for veteran players. It may even be more discouraging for new players who try to apply vf theory. All in all i feel the "demand" for online vf quite selfish, especially since the western world has been given a chance for over 10 years to embrace this game.

 

Re: VF and the US marketplace

You know, I have been seeing many post that are either for or against online. One argument that comes up is that some think that just because VF will be online people automatically assume that it will increase the community and that more will go out and meet. I can tell you for a fact that this is highly flawed. I personally have played online games for a while now and if I am correct there is one major rule: you try to be as unknown as possible that's why people make up and "online name" or "gamer tag". People have a fear of others since they don't know them. The only way people would go to a gathering is if it's OFFICIALLY announced and sponsored. I have never heard of people actually getting together because they like some guy's skills. Usually if that's the case they just go and make a clan on gamebattles.com or some other way.

Also, you MUST take into account the age of the people that will be playing the game. Since VF will be realtively new to most people you will have a vast array of people from different ages playing. What this means is that you will run into some people that you won't like and it will turn you away from game. This problem is evident in the current popular games, let alone in the new games.

Another main problem is glitchers. There will always be people like that. They just will screw around and waste your time. When I started playing MKD online I got incredibly pissed at how absurd it was. One thing that aggravated me the most, besides that stupid breaker, was that if you quit during a match in online play that counted against you as a loss, so if you want to leave a match because of some dumbass you stay and play it out and get annoyed or quit and have a loss automatically added to your record. And since most people didn't want to ruin they're "streak" they would pull the plug and quit the game that way; sometimes this would have an adverse reaction on my console and I would have to reset my ps2 because it would freeze making me start the whole process of setting up for online play and entering my name and password again and wasting my time.

You must also take into account that even if people start to like the game online they will still be too lazy to go out and actually find competition offline. Most of the U.S. players that play online games do so because they are too lazy to go out and play at they're friends' house, thats why they invented online play, so that those trips to yor friend's house would be eliminated. It would take some true dedication to VF to actually get up and get out and find competition. I personally would go out and go to someones house to play VF or any other really good game. For example, my friends and I really enjoyed playing Red Faction 2. Even though it wasn't online we still would meet at one of our houses during the weekends and play even though sometimes it felt like a hassle. Then when olnine play came in we rarely did that anymore. I was up for it, but my friends weren't. They fell into that mentallity of, "I don't wanna go out, I can just play with others from the comfort of my own home, that's why I got online play."

So even IF we got online for VF it really won't do anything revolutionary for VF, and I am assuming that Sega knows this and so that's why they aren't interested that much in the idea. Believe me we all want VF to be online and that we can all be able to play members of VFDC whenever we want, but the truth is that it would only be VFDC members that would be playing and the rest would just be noobs who wouldn't know WTF is going on and get whooped. Besides we already have a ton of new people who ask relatively simple questions about the game and that have played it for a while, imagine how this will be for the noobs who just picked it up and went and played against veterans online.

Besides that if VF5 goes to Xbox and is for Xbox live that will drastically drop the number of people who would play. Most people can't or wont pay to play online and those that use Xbox live are those who are really into shooters like Raibow Six, Ghost Recon 2, and Halo 2. Face it, shooters are and will continue to be the most popluar type of online gameplay since they were the first popular when it was possible to play online through PC. Fighters are always secluded to the arcade or for console offline.

So far we have only thought of the positive aspects of online play and I think we should really consider the other part of it before we dive head first into this.

 

Re: VF and the US marketplace

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This problem is already solved by AM2.... It's called the arcade. When VF5 comes out, no one will be able to play it except in the arcades.

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The problem is not solved for the areas outside of Japan, this is exactly why online play was brought up. It will atleast unite players who would normaly not get a chance to play eachother. Also, Vf4 as a whole sold pretty well, around a million units.

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What does SNIP mean?

Why does lag help Ayane more than it helps any other character? The internet doesn't know that it should be kinder to her.

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-Snip = To lazy to copy and paste everything. Ayane's is a 15 frame attack that goes under high attacks and due to constant lag , her is somewhat sped up and its priority is increased. Also due to lag, its much harder to execute a hold(if it ever do come out) and near impossible to duck Throws, counter throw on reaction, as well as fuzzy guard not working. Allowing Ayane to easily mix up between her and + with practically no disadvantage and ability to properly escape.

[ QUOTE ]
to put it roughly

Imagine a new player who has just learned to eqteg only to have his hours of extreme training to be negated by lag. Or people who spend time studying frame data, only to get destroyed by a button masher, because the buffer is desynchronized.

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-If vf ever goes online, You guys will have 3 options:

1)Play Online
2)Play Offline
3)Play Both

No player will be restricted to either. If someone feels that Lag will mess up their game, they can opt to not play online. It should be known that online play is not suitable for comp, but for casual play it would work out quite well.

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Vf online will attract some new players, but how many "dedicated players". What is it worth to sega to invest thousands in R&D and testing for a feature that wont be even used in japan. It may grab a small handful (50-150) of dedicated new players everywhere else in the world.

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- The amont of dedicated players that will show is dependent on how you guys take advantage of online play and its features. Also, If Vf5 was ported to say Xbox360, They will have free servers to work on, and they will be provided with all the networking tools and any other things needed to build an online Vf(The same things that are being provided for Doa and other online enabled games).

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Also the lag problem will still exist, no matter how much has been invested. At best, VF online is only a fun novelty for veteran players. It may even be more discouraging for new players who try to apply vf theory. All in all i feel the "demand" for online vf quite selfish, especially since the western world has been given a chance for over 10 years to embrace this game.

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-Of course lag will still be present. remember, online play is not there to take away from the offline scene. Its not a replacement for gatherings, Meets or Tournaments. Its merely a tool. Go online, play some casual matches, talk about strats, show live demostrations, talk shit and get players interested in meeting you in person. Having this is not selfish at all. Its hard to blame the players when Sega priced their arcade machines higher than its rival(Tk), Or the fact that sega not intill Vf4 didnt try to breath life into their characters. Now they have a relatively inexpensive way(at the expense of Microsoft) to connect players. Throw in some bells and whistles to the online interface(similar to what Doa2U has), and you will get an outstanding online addition.

 

Re: Virtua Fighter

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LOL

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Why are people talking about 'growth' in a declining market?
The age of fighting games is over. Reality check, remember how popular VF2 was? remember the scene? was VF3 scene has big? how about VF4?
Online fighting games? Fuck off. A niche market at best, FPS and MMORPG are where the action is at. Us 'freaks' in the fighting game community (western) don't even register in comparison.
USA\UK VF market? Fuck off, we're an embarressment to AM2 and Japan. In this glorious market VF can't compete with DOA, FUCKING DOA. A marketing guy in AM2 looks at a sales sheet, sees that VF is in 4th place in the western market and says "they still don't get it, why bother"
The western 'market' are getting what they deserve, Tekken.
Heres some market research*:
70% like Tekken: "The characters are COOOOLL!!!"
20% like soul caliber:"LOL at hit him with my WEAPON!!!!"
10% like DOA: "LOL booobies!!!"
no one else gives a shit about VF, this is the reality.
(*made up on the spot)
VF console sales? how many people in the USA actually bought it has a 2 player game? Go to gamefaqs.com and see the reality, "HOW DO I GET SARAHS BLACK THONG!!!!!!" "NOOOOOOOOOO!!!! I HAVE TO LOSE TO GET THE BLACK COLOR!!!!!" "WHO DO YOU THINK IS HOTTEST SARAH OR PAI!!!!!!"
This is your growing VF market? Get a grip.
Tekken is doing so well in western markets now because of the connectivity? HA! face it, since the golden days of fighting games ended, VF has never even been close to tekken in terms of popularity. Get a dart, throw it at a map of USA, hit one of the states, realise that the state has a tekken scene larger than the entire north american VF scene.
Anti western.... go play fucking tekken and shut up.

 

Re: Virtua Fighter

The way I see it is, the people who are going to play VF seriously, travel to meetings and make an effort to play, are going to do this regardless of online nonsense or any other factor. The people who don't/won't travel, may play online because it is easier for them, and they won't have to deal with the 'shame' of losing (though, I don't see that there is any shame, others do).
Then there will be the people who haven't played the game yet, and might decide to 'have a go' because it is online. This may develop a few people with a stronger interest in the game, who may then decide to travel.

Online gaming isn't going to effect the current scene, because the people who are dedicated to the game will always meet up for proper sessions, and those who don't are obviously not as much of an 'addict' as they like to think they are....

 

Re: Virtua Fighter

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By Madin

Why are people talking about 'growth' in a declining market?
The age of fighting games is over. Reality check, remember how popular VF2 was? remember the scene? was VF3 scene has big? how about VF4?
Online fighting games? Fuck off. A niche market at best, FPS and MMORPG are where the action is at. Us 'freaks' in the fighting game community (western) don't even register in comparison.

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The problem with the popularity of fighting games is the business model, not the quality of the game. I want to point out that in the US fight gaming as a whole is declining. That decline was brought about by fundamental changes is the gaming environment.

1) the affordability and sophistication of the home console unbalanced the playing field. In other words consoles rendered US arcades obsolete and in order to competitively compete against someone who owned the game, you had to own the exact same version of the game.

2) The home console changed the business model from one with recurring revenue (what you have in an arcade) to one with a net sales model (what you get selling 'x' number of units.

Xbox live re-introduces recurring revenue streams. Hence, they can afford to lose money on the sales of the units if it the game gets sufficient air-time on Xbox live.

VF's competition is not Tekken, or SC. It is other types of games, such as adventure games and FPS. FPS are popular on Xbox live because they play well online and they are a better fit for better business model. The entire genre took a leap forward when Microsoft entered the market with Halo. Microsoft changed the business model with Xbox live. They now pursue a subscription model. They also understand that an inferior product with the best support, marketing, and distribution channels beats the superior product with inferior support and marketing everytime. Hey, its not as though Windows is the best operating system, but most of us use it don't we?

 

Re: VF and the US marketplace

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Ayane's is a 15 frame attack that goes under high attacks and due to constant lag , her is somewhat sped up and its priority is increased.

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Shouldn't attacks that have similar time frames be sped up and have increased priority as well?

 

Re: VF and the US marketplace

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Darrius_Cole said:

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Ayane's is a 15 frame attack that goes under high attacks and due to constant lag , her is somewhat sped up and its priority is increased.

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Shouldn't attacks that have similar time frames be sped up and have increased priority as well?

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-Thats one of the problems with online play, it doesnt effect every move or application in the same manner. This is the exact reasons why Those who are competitve in Doa will play offline.

 

Re: VF and the US marketplace

To AkiraPH:

" I have never heard of people actually getting together because they like some guy's skills. Usually if that's the case they just go and make a clan on gamebattles.com or some other way."

I invite you to visit the following link:

Oh Gosh... /versus/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

Re: VF and the US marketplace

This is different. VF is probably the exception. I'm talking about online in general.

 

Re: VF and the US marketplace

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Jerky said:

To AkiraPH:

" I have never heard of people actually getting together because they like some guy's skills. Usually if that's the case they just go and make a clan on gamebattles.com or some other way."



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Quake 3 clan ]CWA[ LAN PARTY!!!! (Two times, actually, for me - once in Colorado, again in Arizona).

I realize you said "I have never heard of..." - That's cool. It does happen from time to time, though.

 

Re: VF and the US marketplace

you still play quake 3 plague? if so let me know which servers you go to /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

Re: VF and the US marketplace

Check your PM.