Virtua Fighter 5 Playstation 3 Version

Hi there,

I wasn't sure if this has been posted on the forums before. Here is the VF5 PS3 preview that's slated for release in Feb 2007.

http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3155915

I haven't read the article myself but from what I saw (some of the PS3 screens... it looked pretty good.) I'm certainly looking forward its release.

 

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Rayne said:
It was pretty unusual for Sega to release an updated vf4 considering how unpopular the game is in the first place.

[/ QUOTE ]

VF4 for ps2 sold in the 3/4 million range in the U.S. That's comparable to the ps2 soul calibur sales. How is that unpopular?

A downloadable update to VF5 evo that sold for $15-20 would be extremely low risk.

 

I read the preview and I like what AM2 did on VF5 for the console version, specially the training mode. The only bad thing it doesn't have any online capability but I think it's not that important. The thing that catched my attention, it's the possibility to see virtua fighter on 360 but it's not sure yet. Maybe Sega will think a little before making a decision to bring it on 360.

Virtua fighter on 360 sounds good....

 

How popular was vf4 evo though? It did pretty bad in sales. I understand that vf4 sold lots of copies as Im sure vf5 will do initially because of the new facelift, but that popularity will soon dwindle like it did with vf4.

 

IIRC, VF4 sold 600,000+ copies in the US, and VF4 evo sold about 200,000+ copies.

 

for those who are interested on buying the Virtua Stick. it`s now official that the VS is gonna be released on 8th feb. the same day for VF5 to be released in /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

the positive thing about the JPN release being a few weeks earlyer then the NA release is that it gives time for some of YOU guys to review the new PS3 sticks for us North Americans.
so when February 20th rolls around, there should be plenty of stick impressions for the Virtua Stick HG adn the HRAP3.

 

just for your info. although AM2 said there will be no online function of what soever, you don't need to worry about it. coz you can download updates and install them threw Playstation Store. the game doesn't need an online function to do so. i have GENJI and it didn't have any kind of online functionality, yet i updated it threw PS store and got me new costumes and for free (unlike X360 where you have to pay money for the updates /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif).
so again if the X360 gets a ver.C, the PS3 will do too and for free /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif.

 

[ QUOTE ]
zakira said:

just for your info. although AM2 said there will be no online function of what soever, you don't need to worry about it. coz you can download updates and install them threw Playstation Store. the game doesn't need an online function to do so. i have GENJI and it didn't have any kind of online functionality, yet i updated it threw PS store and got me new costumes and for free (unlike X360 where you have to pay money for the updates /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif).
so again if the X360 gets a ver.C, the PS3 will do too and for free /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif.

[/ QUOTE ]

Patches/Updates are free on Xbox Live.

Costumes, maps, etc, are sometimes at a cost on Xbox Live. Just depends on what the publisher wants to charge. So there is no reason to think PSN would be different.

 

The issue here is not what console is better
(an old and crap argument at the best of times)
it's the availability of future updates.
With today's technology it is more than feasible,

if a big update did come out which would be the most cost effective way forSega to make money in the west?

1. Make the new version available for download (with or without a fee) online thus making the current release in shops a very attractive purchase,

or like with vf4,

2. rerelease the game (including physical manufacturing costs) and hope the general public don't write it off as a slightly different version with no point spending any money over.

I know which one I prefer, the greatest hits logo sucked ass /versus/images/graemlins/tear.gif /versus/images/graemlins/lol.gif

 

CHeck out the scans from the PS3 winter catalogue
Page 1
http://www.dendenstyle.com/games/images/...er-2006-18.html

Page 2
http://www.dendenstyle.com/games/images/...er-2006-19.html

 

Perhaps asking for online play is not the best option.

Maybe we can ask for better, smarter AI.

Playing in single player mode becomes an issue if the AI is predictable and does not learn your style.

On the other hand if the AI is smarter and capable of learning
(now that we have 20, 60 gig hard drives!) Then
each match would offer something new.

I could care less about online play if its always the same stale
online players. So online is not necessarily a panacea for
those who love the match.

I'll take advanced AI any day.

 

Smarter AI vs. Online Play

If Sega improves the AI, that is makes it adaptable, gives it the ability to learn, then that will also add to the longevity of the virtua fighter series.

If I'm playing on line and I don't know the folks I'm playing against, it wouldn't be any different to me than playing single player mode against some really good AI.

Did anyone see Jet Li's interview on the fearless dvd?

Its all about self improvement.

If you all think about it, smarter AI, more adaptable AI is preferable to human players. Some human players lose interest in the franchise,
others jump ship and become Tekken, of DOA converts,

On the other hand AI players never get tired, and never switch consoles,

If the AI was to improve you would find the match even more satisfying and rewarding.

 

Re: Smarter AI vs. Online Play

AI is never an acceptable replacement for the challenge from another human being. I don't really care if I best the computer, but I can talk shit to my friend after I beat him or her.

 

Re: Smarter AI vs. Online Play

And after beating all human opponents then what?
Its easy to have a false sense of ability when playing
against human opponents who aren't that good, or who are good but predictable.

I would rather have top quality AI than online play against scrubs anyday.

Just because we go online doesn't mean that you will have high caliber competition. And if all you care about is winning regardless of the ability (or lack thereof) of competition then I guess online is the most important.

But true enlightenment comes from deep self assessment, discipline, patience, diligence, humility, and the path of the tiger and dragon.

Its more likely that top quality AI will get you there than
online play.


Its all about self improvement...


Check out the interview with Jet Li on the Fearless DVD. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

 

Re: Smarter AI vs. Online Play

It is all about self improvement, which comes from experiencing many types of players. An AI can only take you so far. To be really good at VF, you basically need to go somewhere where you can experience a steady flow of comp. from experienced players.

Unfortunately, the only place that exists is in Japan.

 

Re: Smarter AI vs. Online Play

You're a fool if you think a computer would help you get closer to enlightenment, even in the metaphorical sense.

The goal of self-improvement is like any goal: it's not the end that makes it so worthwhile, it's the journey you went through to get there. How great would it be to become great but to have no comraderie or ordeals? The question is rhetorical, however, as there are many things you'll never learn from playing the computer. No matter how sophisticated it is, and if you forgo training with competent players in your area you'll never be a real competitor, and that also means giving up on scrubs who might be interested in getting better, in my opinion.

Online-play would have a lot of benefits, but since technology won't allow flawless 60fps, I rather admire Sega's decision to keep it off. All the "points" you're making are redundant, and it sounds more like you're trying to sell us a copy of a dvd than trying to make a valid point.

 

Re: Smarter AI vs. Online Play

I do understand the skepticism here sense the AI that most gamers are familiar with is 1rst generation game AI (which is really not AI). Fortunately that's not the variety that I'm talking about. Everyone that has criticism should take a little time out and google these 10 phrases:

strong AI
weak AI
genetic programming
swarm intelligence
rational agents
molecular computing
Marvin minsky
John McCarthy
Fifth Generation Project
Expert Systems

If after spending a little time on google or answer.com or whatever then perhaps you will understand.

The AI that I would like to see in VF has never been implemented in any game (yet)

So before everyone jumps to conclusions.....
perhaps some research is in order.


The responses to my post say a lot about your fighting styles.

And as far a computer helping to get closer to enlightenment isn't that exactly what is going on here?

For all you know you are responding to a computer program by the name of masterpo. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

 

Re: Smarter AI vs. Online Play

I do not disagree with the value of sparring with different human fighters. My only point is that true AI (see my previous post) will be far beyond the abilities of most human players.

Do any of you know anything about deep blue and what happened
to the human expert in the contest?

If Sega had access to real AI researchers they would be able to design fighters that could not be defeated by human opponents.


Those of you that disagree with this fact demonstrate that you don't understand what real AI is.

There is a book out there by a AI researcher 'Rodney Brooks'
from MIT

Title: Flesh and the machines

For the unbelievers this book would be a good start.

First it would be rather straight forward to design a million AI styles with each radically different than the other. On the other hand all of my human opponents fall into about nine categories. Sure there is a little deviation here and there but I've only seen nine categories to date. I can tell by the responses to my post that most of you fall into category 3.


True masters don't even need to exhange blows,
we are able to state the moves that we would
make in response to each others. This technique
can already be done online.

What do you know of Xiaolin?

My skeptical friends please look before you leap....

 

Re: Smarter AI vs. Online Play

AI can test your dexterity and mixups, but it can't teach you how to handle people's nerves, sense of being random, being affected by physical presence, verbal contact, etc. You know, the things that actually matter come time for competition.

Look towards the abbreviation when comparing it... Artificial intelligence. Would you rather play genuine intelligence or artificial? It is something created to mimic the real thing. Why fight the mirror image which is based off math and patern recognition rather than thaught and emotion? Fighting games arn't chess games like Deep Blue that you mentioned. They shouldn't be able to be mathmatically won when two human beings are involved. (Much like Chess really... Deep Blue is a joke to me as well. I mean sure, it's an unbelievable event. Five guys engineer a program to mathmatically counter and beat the moves of a world renowned chess player. I'm not taking away from that. But it in no way reflects the competition of Chess itself when broken down. If you were to have two Deep Blues against each other, it would either be stalemate or the Deep Blue that got to move second would win every time. It's like two calculators trying to out-do each other in who can put out the most correct answers.)

"If Sega had access to real AI researchers they would be able to design fighters that could not be defeated by human opponents."

Correct. Simply because it works off mechanics and math, the computer opponent could be designed to play perfectly based off of what we mechanicly put in, it could only play off reaction rather than action (cause we could do counter hits theoretically). This isn't competition, this isn't training, this is how well the AI has been programed. Only way around it is to find a flaw in the developers design, to find a glitch basically. Something the AI can't recognize.

But to back up. I'm not posting this against you, or an attack, or to act all high and mighty, nothing like that. I'm all for a better AI opponent, I'm with you there. I think it's an incredible idea. I of all people need better execution skills and need to learn to mixup my game more and better AI would help both. It's just, in no way would it replace all of the lessons learned from human opponents.

I'm curious what "catagory 3" involves. Is being correct one of the traits?

EDIT: Sorry, and you thought the rant was over?? Lol, had to quote what Ladon wrote. (Quote and Wrote rhyme /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif )

Anyway, Ladon wrote above, "The goal of self-improvement is like any goal: it's not the end that makes it so worthwhile, it's the journey you went through to get there. How great would it be to become great but to have no comraderie or ordeals?"

While this doesn't pertain to my argument, I fully agree with this. 100%. In-fact, I vote Ladon for president for such a good quote.