Virtua Fighter 5 Location Test in Japan Information and News

Re: New Locationtest coming.

I'm more than willing to let VF5 suprise me but I think that it can be played like VF4 could be a problem or at least point towards a smaller life span. I can see Sega trying to combat this with more frequent upgrades in game system, characters and in the trinkets and trash arena.

GE

 

Re: New Locationtest coming.

Nice update Makatiel!

 

Re: New Locationtest coming.

GodEater : It is the same situation like Tekken 5 was first time tested. Noone was trying new stuff, all ppl where playing T4/TTT as much as possible. It seems that T5 is still the same as T4. And now? Everyone will told you that it is a completly diffrend game, which tons of ppl who like old tekkens don't like and tons of ppl love at all...

Saying " it can be played like VF4 could be a problem " is nonsence in terms of gameplay. It is like say " you can play Quake 4 without mouse, just from keybord and that could be a problem " and the information value of this sentence is the same...

 

Re: New Locationtest coming.

I think this has to be taken in context of the vf series, the fact that you can get along ok with vf4 style of play shows not as vast a difference like 2>3>4,
where there were Major changes to how you played the game.

 

Re: New Locationtest coming.

I think you guys missed the big difference between the transition from 4 to 5.

The reason why 2 > 3 > 4 was a big difference is because of the evade button. It came and went in between 2 and 4. The transition from 4 > 5 may not seem as big initially, but I'm already seeing differences in the nitaku game and throw game from the vids and the initial impressions. It's obvious that the game can still be played the same way as 4. Just like you can still play VF4 the same way as VF1. It's obvious that most players are still only touching the surface of the new system, wait till the game actually comes out, and strategies come out in arcadia magazines. It's only then can we really gauge how different VF5 really is from VF4.

 

Re: New Locationtest coming.

For me, it's not just the presence of the E-button that made the big difference.

The gap from VF2 to VF3 was probably the biggest leap in a fighting game ever took, or will take again. There were many new concepts that had never been tried in a fighting game before, and they worked. Even something that seems simple, like standardizing the commands for Throws to + & Reversals to + drastically changed the way the game played from VF2, because it eliminated Option Select commands that were rampant in that game. This meant more thinking and a heavier emphasis on Yomi, which to me is the greatest strength of VF3, you can't "Command Your Way Out" of a bad situation.

The change from 3 to 4, to me, was just as much about throwing many of the concepts of VF3 away (including Taka) as it was about VF4's new ideas. But, it still felt fresh and amazing. I remember I got to play VF4 before most people in the US because they tested it in California, and my first impression was that I never wanted to play VF3 again... and that suddenly Akira's DblPm seemed much more useful /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

Also, they lost the "theme" aspect that VF 1-3 had. VF2's theme was "China", they added 2 new characters, both Kung Fu, and made the Youngest character (Lion) and the Oldest character (Shun). VF3's theme was "Japan", they added 2 Japanese fighting styles, and made the Smallest, Lightest, most Defensive character: Aoi; and the Largest, Heaviest, and extremely Offensive Taka-Arashi. I don't feel the "theme" anymore. I think Lei Fei and Eileen would have made a nice "Kung Fu" theme together, or that El Blaze and Vanessa could have made a cool "Latin American Hybrid Fighting Styles" theme.

What worries me about 5 is that I can't see any really new concepts yet. I know there are side hits, and the new dodge, and it's obvious that we'll have to re-think pressure during times of advantage/disadvantage. These things might make playing VF5 different from VF4, but I think it's more of a tuning than a new game. I think it's also telling that the harshest criticisms are coming from the people that HAVE played it. Usually, I'd think people in that position would rather say "Dude, it's so different, you can't even imagine, it's crazy, totally new game!", even if it were just to hype the fact that they could play while others couldn't. But to hear that hardcore fans are disappointed with the lack of change makes me sad.

For example, here's an idea I've had for a few years now that would be a big change: some characters should have Throw Reversals. Aoi can reverse Attacks, and some Throws. Akira tries to throw Aoi w/ ++, Aoi uses +++ and does a Throw Reversal for damage (in addition to ++, hold /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif). I think some characters should have this, mainly the grapplers. The idea is that when you try to Throw someone who's good at Throwing, like a Wrestler, you need to be more careful.

Striker types should have a similar advantage, with something like, "Just Frame Guard". Tapping at just the moment an Attack would connect turns the tables w/ a special animation that gives you Advantage, and maybe canned options. Something like Wolf's RAW, so maybe Lau could hold as Kage comes in with +, ... Lau lets go of then taps it again just as the last comes out, he hits Kage's hand to the side and follows with the canned option, which gives him advantage similar to normal on Counter. When you're trying to strike a hand-to-hand fighting expert, like a Kung Fu master, you need to be more careful.

The concept is that different fighting styles need to be thought about differently when planning an offensive. This creates variety, and makes each character more unique. You're not just fighting "Wolf", you're fighting a Pro Wrestler, so maybe since you use Shao-Lin Kung Fu, trying to Throw is huge guy (who's a grappling expert) is something you need to do carefully.

Maybe these ideas wouldn't work, but they're just a couple of the ideas I alone have had in my head for a while about how the game should grow. I'd like to see more of this kind of creativity in VF5. ATM I feel that AM2 is trying to "tune" VF5 to be a more perfect or deep version of what VF currently is. In the past, I think that VF (or Yu Suzuki) took each version as it's chance to look at the concept of what a 3D fighting game is, and evolve it.

I don't need VF.TV, 4 costumes is cool, and HD is neat. But what I really need is a new game, with new ideas about 3-D fighitng. There's SO much more that can be done w/ a 3-D fighitng game, I want to see VF lead the way into these ideas.

Bryan

 

Re: New Locationtest coming.

Devil's Advocate Post:

In the past, the VF games were essentially stand-alone releases, with VERY minor upgrades to the games made with things like VF2.1 or VF3tb (I think in both of those upgrades combined, I can think of only 2 or 3 new attacks/throws that were added, the rest is pure balance tuning).

In contrast, the VF4 series has taken the game into a more organic direction, with a total of 8 versions of the game, divided into 3 major upgrades where both the system and characters underwent major changes. At the level of the command list, we can see a bigger difference between say VF4 Jacky and FT Jacky than there is between VF3 Jacky and VF4 Jacky.

VF has now become something that changes more quickly, in small chunks, so that change happens steadily every couple of years. VF5 is just the next baby-step along the way, and there will be various versions of VF5 just as there were of VF4.

[I don't really like any of this, but I thought it's one positive way to think about VF5 as it can be seen ATM]

 

Re: New Locationtest coming.

[ QUOTE ]
It is the same situation like Tekken 5 was first time tested. Noone was trying new stuff, all ppl where playing T4/TTT as much as possible. It seems that T5 is still the same as T4. And now? Everyone will told you that it is a completly diffrend game, which tons of ppl who like old tekkens don't like and tons of ppl love at all...

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude...I've been playing Paul 80% the same from Tekken 3, Tag, 4 and 5. Ditto for Heihachi and Jin/Devil Jin with Tag and 5. In fact, if you ask me, Tekken has not changed much at all from T3 to T5. I haven't played T1 and T2 enough to comment, but I'd wager they weren't that different either. T4 was probably the most unique of the series, and ironically that's the one most Tekken loyalists like least.

I totally echo Brian's point. I'm sure VF5 will be different and require different tactics, but will it be FRESH? I'm definitely going to give AM2 the benefit of the doubt, and even if it does end up feeling more like an evolution rather than a revolution I'm sure I'll keep playing the game as long as others play it. But as GE referred to the question then is the game's lifespan in the broader market.

 

Re: New Locationtest coming.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, they lost the "theme" aspect that VF 1-3 had. VF2's theme was "China", they added 2 new characters, both Kung Fu, and made the Youngest character (Lion) and the Oldest character (Shun). VF3's theme was "Japan", they added 2 Japanese fighting styles, and made the Smallest, Lightest, most Defensive character: Aoi; and the Largest, Heaviest, and extremely Offensive Taka-Arashi. I don't feel the "theme" anymore. I think Lei Fei and Eileen would have made a nice "Kung Fu" theme together, or that El Blaze and Vanessa could have made a cool "Latin American Hybrid Fighting Styles" theme.

[/ QUOTE ]I disagree, I think the theme concept is still very noticeable.

With Lei Fei + Vanessa, the theme was stances. Lei Fei with his seamless flowing in and out of different stances and Vanessa with her dual stance setup.

The theme with Eileen and El Blaze is quite obviously flashy acrobatics.

 

VF5 Next

Well this is what i'm predicting. Obviously there will be a upgrade version of VF5 from A to B @ the looks of things.

But more importantly if we look back @ VF4 and Evo the difference is huge in updates to moves and added moves as well as balance throughout the game itself.

I'm expecting the same thing with VF5 which will lead to VF5 NEXT or whatever it's called.

Because VF4 came out in 2001 and Evo came out in 2002 that's quick and we didn't get FT until what 2004. And for VF5 2006 > VF5 NEXT 2007 > 2008 or 2009 VF5 LAST. /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I'm just hoping that AM2 not Sega who actually developing the game are playing it safe for this one and if it doesn't work out they can always rework the game play.

Hey, look @ the bright side the King is back. Hehehe

 

VF5

Just my little thought here. First, for myself I will keep playing VF5 even it just an VFFT + minor changes + better graphic and I think most of players will think the same.
VF5 may not be a great leap from 4, but think of it this way: the system had evolved for many generations already, it's normal that the leaps in between are becoming smaller and smaller given the basic mechanics are the same.

What really matters is how can Sega attracts new comers and change them to a dedicated player hence grow the community without making it into a pure guessing game. I have see many players had started learning VF but die out very quick because they can't win. VF is a very cruel game to newbies............

We need new bloods!!

 

Re: New Locationtest coming.

I just want to say you completely summed up my feelings/impressions from what I have heard about vr5. Sega has, in a sense, lost their spirit of innovation and traded it in for what they know will probally sell.

 

Re: New Locationtest coming.

Dude...chill out. Let's not exaggerate and let's wait for the game to actually be finished before we get all judgemental.

 

Fix the damn distance issue AM2!

One big annoying thing I'd always had about VF was the distance issue WTH!? By now you figure AM2 would fix this problem or at least develop the system more.

Many example likes beating a mid kick from a medium distance I can understand it's close distance but from medium and long distance. /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

And throws regardless of distance connects solely base on it's properties is just freaking GAY! They need to work on these frame rate and distance excutions of high/mid/lows into a more complex and realistic interactive system btw the characters.

One time Shaggie did Goh's > and I swear I was @ a long/far distance and kick didn't even touch but you see my Akira get's drawn into the black hole of PWNess since he connected with the hit throw.

/me gaves the mid-finger to AM2! /versus/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 

Re: Fix the damn distance issue AM2!

Hehehe... I feel what your saying Smurf.

 

Re: Fix the damn distance issue AM2!

I think you know I agree with you here Smurf...some of the distance, speed, and hitbox of moves/characters is utterly rediculous

 

Re: New Locationtest coming.

Well, aside from the variety of things that the E-button added and subtracted from VF's iterations, you must admit that VF5 is adding another layer of yomi going from 4 to 5. I think you would agree that the amount of depth that VF3 had wasn't initially noticeable until people figured out all the different strategies, techniques, etc. This I believe will also be the case with VF5. Similar to 3, the so subtle changes with the lp's, throw speed, distance, frames, attack throw clashes, would make VF5 a much more yomi based game from VF5. We don't even know what kinds of movements are now possible to do based on the new evades. Of course it's hard to see the differences based on the clips and such alone, since much of these changes could possibly only be felt by playing the game in person.

I do agree that my initial impressions are also underwhelming in regards to gameplay changes, but I am optimistic that the theorized changes so far alone will make a drastic impact on the system that we now are all so familiar with of VF4. Like what you said about going from 2 to 3, the eliminations of option selects will make VF5 more of a game based on yomi, where you won't be able to command your way out of a bad situation.

Based on that comment, I just feel like 5 will also bring a breath of fresh air to the series. There is still a little less than half a year to go until the release, who knows what else AM2 will crank out. I think it's important to remember that there are of course many many different things that can be done in a fighting game; but the things people complain about, the things that makes a fighting game a failure, those imbalances in a fighting game are things carefully guarded against. Any little addition could potentially break the whole thing. Not to defend AM2, but it's understandable that 5 is more of a tuning than a full complete overhaul. Nevertheless, until the game is finished and people are really starting to figure out how to exploit the new changes, I would reserve judgement on that issue.

 

Re: New Locationtest coming.

[ QUOTE ]
Srider said:

Well, aside from the variety of things that the E-button added and subtracted from VF's iterations, you must admit that VF5 is adding another layer of yomi going from 4 to 5. I think you would agree that the amount of depth that VF3 had wasn't initially noticeable until people figured out all the different strategies, techniques, etc. This I believe will also be the case with VF5. Similar to 3, the so subtle changes with the lp's, throw speed, distance, frames, attack throw clashes, would make VF5 a much more yomi based game from VF5. We don't even know what kinds of movements are now possible to do based on the new evades. Of course it's hard to see the differences based on the clips and such alone, since much of these changes could possibly only be felt by playing the game in person.

I do agree that my initial impressions are also underwhelming in regards to gameplay changes, but I am optimistic that the theorized changes so far alone will make a drastic impact on the system that we now are all so familiar with of VF4. Like what you said about going from 2 to 3, the eliminations of option selects will make VF5 more of a game based on yomi, where you won't be able to command your way out of a bad situation.

Based on that comment, I just feel like 5 will also bring a breath of fresh air to the series. There is still a little less than half a year to go until the release, who knows what else AM2 will crank out. I think it's important to remember that there are of course many many different things that can be done in a fighting game; but the things people complain about, the things that makes a fighting game a failure, those imbalances in a fighting game are things carefully guarded against. Any little addition could potentially break the whole thing. Not to defend AM2, but it's understandable that 5 is more of a tuning than a full complete overhaul. Nevertheless, until the game is finished and people are really starting to figure out how to exploit the new changes, I would reserve judgement on that issue.

[/ QUOTE ]

i argee with you on that.

 

Re: New Locationtest coming.

[ QUOTE ]
akiralove said:

VF has now become something that changes more quickly, in small chunks, so that change happens steadily every couple of years. VF5 is just the next baby-step along the way, and there will be various versions of VF5 just as there were of VF4.

[/ QUOTE ]
As soon as FT was announced, I had a feeling that VF5 would turn out this way. I think most people had that thought in the back of their minds.

If FT never happened, then the transition from VF4evo to VF5 would have been greater, so I'm actually not that shocked at the initial impressions right now. It only makes sense. 5 has some major changes, and in addition to the existing VF4 gameplay elements, it should be a great game.

It's still too early in the game though, plus the main problem I have isn't with the fighting engine(I'm glad the E button is gone), but the stages themselves. I wish they would add at least one stage with uneven ground, because the square ring concept is getting old. We need bigger, more wide open stages.

 

Re: New Locationtest coming.

Do we know if the Final Tuned upgrades are thus far in VF:5?? Just curious, cause so far, I have seen none of them in any vid and no mention either.