Virtua Fighter 5 Final Showdown

As long as SEGA releases the console version, I don't really care the entire system is going up or down

 

One thing that Reno's article touched upon that I've been thinking about is how in FS characters have become "standardized" across the board.

There are now no "grapplers." Lightweight characters have high damage throws and attacks; heavyweight characters have fast and safe attacks. The difference between how one plays Wolf and Eileen isn't that large.

To me this makes the game more accessible, but I think I will miss the character specialization.

I always thought the VF3 throw system was just fine: most characters had three throw directions, throw based characters had four which gave them a distinct advantage. You can only escape one direction and P+G at all times. I wouldn't have minded seeing this system return.

That said I don't think I'd mind the universal throw system in place now for FS either.

Either way I'm just glad I don't have to deal with MTE any more.

 

This is all BS. If AM2 wanted to make the chances of a throw escape higher, all they had to do was go back to the VF2 throw escapes system: simply press P+G to escape all (P+G) throws. Think you have it hard? VF2 had inescapable thows, and splash mountain or crucifix piledriver was one of them. Do you know Youshi Senrin was an inescapable thow? Think you're butt hurt now? Stun palm was obstensibly an inescapable throw. It was unblockable.

One of my great joys of VF was the throw system. For them to take diagonal inputs out of the high throws sucks , because it diminishes the variety. I feel like I'm "cheating" when I play as Goh and only use BF P+G , or FF P+G throws. It has a high success rate, but it's too easy and gets boring. I only do that tactic in quest mode, mind you, because I have over a hundred toons to beat, but If I was damned to simple , easy throw inputs esclusively in VF I would hate it.

Sega is getting hoisted on their own petard. They made the throw escape system more complicated in the first place by requiring directional inputs , and are too shortsighted to see they could just use VF2 TEs rather than gimping the game. And yes it is gimping the game, If AM2 is so desperate to simplify the throw system they have to REMOVE SOME of the throws, this new direction is full of FAIL. VF5 vanilla is looking like Third Strike right about now.

 

How far would you take that idea though? Would you make everything in the entire game less complicated to appeal to casuals? Would you even further homogenize the entire cast if it meant selling more copies? How much easier does VF have to get to satisfy the casual market? If VF becomes as casual as SFIV with Ultra Combos, or implements something like Rage in 6BR, is that acceptable as long as it attracts more casuals? At what point does the series cease to be VF and simply become a weak shadow of its former self? According to a good number of people here VF is already rapidly in decline. And who is to say that casuals will not simply purchase VF, play it for a few months, and then abandon it, leaving true VF hardcore players with an incredibly weak and watered down game that they'll be stuck with? If you are attracting casuals to VF do you really think that they'll stick around for years playing the game and exploring the entire system? Or do you think that they'll just play it for a year at most, then move on to the next popular FPS, or FG, or whatever? Is that what you really want? Casuals to flock to VF for a few months, then put the game down forever, and then leaving the VF community with this shallower VF system until VF6? And will VF6 continue the descent into the shallow end of the pool because casuals can't swim in the deep end?

The best part about VF for me is that it blows every other fighting game out of the water. Everything any fighting game does VF does it and does it better from what I can tell. Character variety? Balance? Competitive depth? Difficult execution? Difficult mind games? Difficult memorization and variety? VF excels in all of those areas simultaneously while most games only achieve it in a few areas if any.

VF is VF because it is not casual and refuses to compromise itself. It is what makes the game greater and more rewarding than any other fighter for me. The struggle and learning curve is part of the fun and excitement. Standardizing character playing style across the board, building simplistic mechanics into the game, and putting crutches and shortcuts into the game waters down the VF experience. Difficulty is something that VF used to openly embrace but AM2 is slowly eroding that concept.

I play easy games. I play lots of casual FPS games online. I play lots of easy story based RPGs. I play lots of easy single player games on my Wii or short and simple DLC titles from the PSN or XBL. But when I want a challenge I play SSFIIX (ST) or VF.

SSFIIX is still played to this day because it had a 'no mercy' design to it. Grand Master Challenge. Everything was meant for the most hardcore players. Execution was through the roof. The system is merciless and unforgiving at all levels. The learning curve is exceptionally steep and intimidating. Yet once you get a hang of it you'll find an overwhelming assortment of competitive characters and a rewarded and challenging system. ST is often called the greatest SF of all time, the greatest 2D fighting game of all time, and the golden standard for fighters. VF is like its 3D equivalent, its 3D counterpart, but that is getting less and less true.

I don't care if VF never achieves mass success like SFIV or Tekken. KOF, BlazBlue, Guilty Gear, they don't exactly light up console sales charts, but those games usually get their due console ports. VF4 and EVO were not easy games at all, quite difficult in fact, and sold just fine on consoles, and they dominated in Japanese arcades. I wish Sega would just realize that VF will sell well and do just fine in arcades no matter how hard or easy it is.

There is no reason to make VF easy at all in my eyes. A tutorial mode is worth more to casual fans than a simplified game. A Quest Mode with really easy AI is worth more to casual fans than a simplified game. Even Story Mode is worth more to casual fans than simplifying VF's system.

 

Emp, I'm not against you but do you have any idea how easy it becomes playing VF4/evo/FT comparing with VF3tb? I bet you probably never play VF3 before and if you do, it's weird that you still wrote down the opinions above.

FS is "easier" to play but doesn't mean it's a "easy" game I don't know how people actually judge FS without playing it first? MTE is gone = easy to play?

 

This . Who cares if gimping the game attracts more casuals if it isn't fun anymore. If I wanted to play a simplified fighting game with millions of players, Id play DOA. Im really pissed Sega didn't just give us fucking VF5 R 2 god damn years ago and keep this watered down version to themselves. The only thing making me want VF5 FS is Jean and Taka. If I have to weigh two new characters versus making detrimental changes to the throw system, I ask myself are 2 chars even worth it.

 

Really, for as much as it seems different, it still looks to be very much the same.

I still say wait a few months and view where the game is at once it's had proper time to settle. If the people who actually have access to it start dropping it like crazy, then there may be cause for alarm. But till then, sit tight, keep an open mind.

 

Flying Guillotine and Nobody hit it on the head perfectly IMO.

I know people really don't have to agree with me but i love the hardcore element to the VF series. I understand what Sega wanted to do to reel in new players but for the life of me. why Cater to the Casual players now when you could've wet their appetites with R?

I don't want to lose 109 points of health because i got caught with a mix up. I remember the concept to VF5 was to eliminate the guessing game because you already know.

 

I really don't see the problem here... I could never do MTE's to begin with... and now some of you are actin' as if takin' that away has made VF utter trash. Maybe they shouldn't have changed the inputs but most of you haven't even played it yet.

 

Hmmm, spare the rod, spoil the child.

I kind of don't buy that Sega is trying to attract more casuals with fucking up VF5 FS' throw system, simply because they have an enourmous following in Japan already. Saying they are trying to attract more casuals implies that Sega actually gives a fuck about the American market, and that my friends is laughable.

 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think 1 of the the main reasons people don't play VF is because it doesn't look flashy enough and the characters don't appeal to them. I'd much rather they took more steps in this area to get people playing.</div></div>
This.
As I begun to play VF the character designe just looked very much like a cliché to me and some of the englich voiceactors made me laugh quite hard.
Im happy that I played it long enough to notice its awesome gameplay, but I sadly couldn´t convince anybody from the people I knew back from other fighting games to switch to VF. I wasn´t because of the difficult, they just didn´t like the look of the game.

 

Throws are supposed to be escapable, with your suggestion it would pretty much be an excercise in frustration to even try to TE, the percentages is way too low, unlike in FS where the percentages are about the same (or lower) as doing two TEs in iterations of VF5 and VF4.

 

um, i don't know about you, but i don't see many people here listing "accessibility" as something they want to see in vf.

but in any case, i think "accessibility" is the wrong way to think of the new te system- if anything, it's actually harder than before because now you have to yomi throws 100% of the time to break them. sure, i like the old system, but i think this one will end up working out too (just please please please map lowthrows to P+K+G again).

besides, if vf5 has taught us anything, it's that complexity is not always a good thing; 0f throws and throw clash anyone?

 

itt: people complaining about game they haven't touched yet

 

Thanks a lot to those guys who have been sounding like a broken record for a several weeks now bitching the FS throw system - the worst thing is that I think this "essential MTE" debate is going to go on for years if nothing changes.

In any case, FS matches look super interesting anyway, so I couldn't care less since we CANNOT PLAY THE GAME. In the meantime I prefer enjoying what I can get out of it, not complaining about what it MAY BE like.

Everything has to be written into our brains anyway if/when we get to try the game ourselves. Please calm down and sit back to see the wider picture of it.

Personally, I think Sega very much knows what they are doing. If people think the throw system is shite, they will make it more situational and interesting or kill it altogether, I don't care.

The main point is that VF3 system essentially makes a "comeback" and it is considered to be a very deep game altogether - with those pesky single throw escapes. And now some are saying it makes the game worse !? WTF.

Just ditch the MTEs and make it as interesting as possible - that's the score. I definitely want to see how it works out. And please make the console version to contain VF5R too, so we can make our minds ourselves which version we want to lose our hearts to. ^^

 

My gripe with the Throwing system as a whole and not just the TE system. Obviously throwing is the strength of the Grapplers and it is diminished greatly. 5 directions for throws with the ability to TE 3 which is 60% percent change (Although very advanced) is a great odd considering the character's ability to throw you often. Thats my gripe along with various non-throwing issues from what i've seen so far. You dudes in this forum think just because somebody don't like something they hate the game automatically.

 

I was more or less referrin' to EmpNova and Nobody more than you... and that other poster actin' like R was the "end all be all" of VF games.

 

I'm still of the thought that the throw game didn't hurt the 'grapplers.' To me the throw game got that much scarier.

I only have one shot and they know that? Man I better always be on that F5 break, and they know that? Damn, mind games lol. Now I can't cover my basics. Like ok, I'ma do neutral throw for kicks, pizza toss and giant swing. Check. So long as I don't screw up, they're options for damage are pretty limited here right now and they're gonna have to go with a more unorthodox choice of throws to get around my defense.

But now? I know my opponent wants to break forwad, so I'ma get this back throw for free all day. Then as soon as he begins to break that, I'll throw in a forward throw for kicks. Now he's (Or she's ) panicked.