Virtua Fighter 4 Evo or Soul Calibur 2

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skyrend said:

Yes, I think most replies are pretty ignorant but that's expected for a question like this.

SC2 has depth, but it's broken. IMO, overall VF4 is a better game.

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Oh yeah? OH YEAH? Well...well....how about VF4 vs MK: Deadly Alliance?!

*runs and ducks*

Oh god, I was kidding...KIDDING, I SAY!

 

Ive watched my freinds play on my tv for hours, paitently. And this installation has never iinterested me. I just dont like SCII. Theres a bunch of new moves but the gameplay is still the same. And it got a 9.5 10. As long as you play VF, you will learn. What I learned about SC? When youre' a 250 pound Char, a slice from a 70 pound Char with a two ounce sword will launch you out of the ring. Outstanding physics! IE
A-roth vs any female smaller than Ivy.

 

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b4k4 said:
Now, I hear a lot of SC2 bashing in here, and I think that for the most part, people doing it are blind VF fanboys. I'm not talking about everyone (nor anyone in particular), but saying that SC2 seems like a game about nothing but T&A, and flashy graphics after only seeing screenshots!? That's ridiculous.

I wish people wouldn't so quickly dismiss it as a scrub-fest.

This February, I'm travelling to France with a team of eight other Canadian players to compete in a World Tournament for SC2. All sorts of countries (Canada, USA, France, Germany, Japan, Korea, Singapore, UK... and many more) will be there. The fact that this game has players dedicated enough to make such a trip, and in from so many corners of the globe, should be some indication that game is perhaps deeper than you have given it credit for.

I don't expect this to change anybody's mind about the game, but I think that you should understand that it has the depth and technical merit of any other 3D fighter, if you take the time to learn it seriously.

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I hear SC2 is going to be the first fighting game in Korea that is going to be with that tournament/ pro gamers list in console world (bad engrish, sorry). I bet a lot of professional players will get it all banging hard and help to promote fighting games in general.

Popularity alone doesn´t make a game, it´s how the game is played. Obvious character tiers and more non-logical game structure in SC2 means that Evo is overall a better tournament game IMO. I have played both games a LOT and I pretty much get pissed of after hearing people say senile comment about VF. Almost. SC2= good, but not as good as VF4 Evo. I can and will argue if you like to.

 

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Neonomide said:
Popularity alone doesn´t make a game, it´s how the game is played. Obvious character tiers and more non-logical game structure in SC2 means that Evo is overall a better tournament game IMO. I have played both games a LOT and I pretty much get pissed of after hearing people say senile comment about VF. Almost. SC2= good, but not as good as VF4 Evo. I can and will argue if you like to.

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1./ I never said popularity made the game.

2./ I agree that SC2 has more balance issues than VF4 (but don't kid yourself into thinking VF is balanced, either).

3./ I also agree that VF4: Evo is a better fighting game than SC2... or can you show me where I said otherwise...?

/versus/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

Mini analysis.

Graphics: Soul Calibur beats VF4:Evo hands down for flashiness and flair.

Control: VF4:Evo wins on the technical side (I've never seen any game where doing something that seems so basic at first is so complex i.e. Minami stepping.)
On ease, obviously SC2 wins, as nothing is easier than a simple sidestep in that game... and stepping isn't super-safe, stop abusing vertical attacks and it becomes easier (although vertical attacks ARE better stat-wise than horizontals).

Gameplay: VF4Evo for depth, however, this also means anyone not yet at the same level as his/her opponent will pretty much have no chance... at all. SC2 is definitely an equalizer... which I like. Experts are likelier to win, but it isn't certain. Also, timing is EVERYTHING in SC2, whereas in VF4Evo really good execution skills are also required for expert level play (except MAYBE for Lei Fei... he MIGHT be able to get away with just stance dancing -- unlikely as it may be).

Overall: SC2 is THE party game for fighting game fans... just don't use Necrid or the console-specific characters (unbalanced -- Spawn is crap, Link is okay... but used properly he's as annoying as he is in SSBM... Heihachi is just plain sad... use HIM for the humiliation factor -- he needs his Tekken 4 thong back). VF4 Evo should be solely played among experts (or others of your skill level, as it is REALLY not fun to play against someone either much worse or better than you).

 

Re: Mini analysis.

well...the graphics of VF4 Evo are supposed to be realistic, when lau does his charge attack, should his palms light up on fire /versus/images/graemlins/cool.gifno, sega isn't going for flashiness man! they're goin for...uhmm..realism /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

Re: Mini analysis.

By judging recent sales records of Evo it can be said that VF is obviously getting more popularity, if not so much as SC2. I think most players either
a: leave out the human factor regarding the game, or
b: overly exaggerate the human factor

I think that Evo, being a VERY balanced game overall, has an advantage by that it doesn´t fail to few characters WHEN you get better in it. Some might well argue taht Evo has more "difficult matchups", but still, it´s amazingly balanced, IMHO. Not single one character can win another, equally good one, by simply repeating 2-3 attacks.

I know many top Jeffry Brad players, while not many of them can do "chibitas" or "tsuchikumos" all the time, they can really rock the house in right hands. A lot of relevant VF strategies are still left to be found for most characters, because people seem have to have a tendence for relying on some particular moves or characters. That means that any new information spreads to people WHO are interested and involved, not primarily to those who want to get better skillz.

All previous VF games have been played for years, without exception and that should tell something about it´s balance factor. SC2 might be a great party game, but it also is largely dependent about "rules" and dare I say, step whoring and 2H. I bet people will be fed up sooner or later with a game taht doesn´t logically push you and your skills to your limits, instead of your eager for whoring as much as possible.

Conclusion: SC2 is more of a scrub fest than VF 4 Evo. Party games are for noobs...

 

Re: Mini analysis.

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Neonomide said:
I think that Evo, being a VERY balanced game overall, has an advantage by that it doesn´t fail to few characters WHEN you get better in it. Some might well argue taht Evo has more "difficult matchups", but still, it´s amazingly balanced, IMHO. Not single one character can win another, equally good one, by simply repeating 2-3 attacks.

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Tell me what matchup in SC2 can be won by repetition of just 3 moves. Seriously, I want to know.

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I know many top Jeffry Brad players, while not many of them can do "chibitas" or "tsuchikumos" all the time, they can really rock the house in right hands. A lot of relevant VF strategies are still left to be found for most characters, because people seem have to have a tendence for relying on some particular moves or characters. That means that any new information spreads to people WHO are interested and involved, not primarily to those who want to get better skillz.

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There are also great Maxi and Yunsung (the generally recognized low tier in SC2) players. Shit, I lose with disturbing frequency to a Yunsung player, when I'm using Yoshimitsu. That match (theoretically) should be won by Yoshi 7 times out of 10. This guy has studied the match-up hard, because I used to rock him. Now I have to reevaluate my game, and find out what's going wrong. Not everything is set in stone.

Don't kid yourself into thinking that there isn't stuff left to be discovered in SC2. New discoveries are made on a nearly weekly basis, and subsequently the game has become very dynamic.

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All previous VF games have been played for years, without exception and that should tell something about it´s balance factor. SC2 might be a great party game, but it also is largely dependent about "rules" and dare I say, step whoring and 2H. I bet people will be fed up sooner or later with a game taht doesn´t logically push you and your skills to your limits, instead of your eager for whoring as much as possible.

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At this point, you're really starting to lose any kind of credibility at all. I'm not sure just what you meant about SC2 being largely dependant on "rules", but if you were talking about step and "2H" (2A?) whoring, then you obviously haven't played this game seriously, nor have you seen it played seriously. SC2 is a good fighting game, and a lot of people seem to want to ignore that. I've never said it was better than VF4, because that would be a lie, but that doesn't make it a bad game. This game forces you to use your logic and skills the same as any other fighting game does. If you think somebody can go on some kind of auto-pilot sequence with step and 2A, then you've got rather skewed image of not just SC2, but the entire fighting game genre.

Your repeated points about "whoring" don't sit too well with me either. Mostly because it isn't true. First of all, horizontal attacks beat step. Sure, you can step certain ones certain ways, somewhat like half-crescents in VF4... but they couldn't possibly have done it on purpose in SC2, could they? There are attacks which you can't step, period. Repeated 2A's is a strong tactic with only one character I can think of (Ivy), as for the rest; it's a decent move, but not a staple. Whoring will get you punished. If you do nothing but step, then a good player will read you. Say an Ivy knows you're going to step; she can 33A, 22B, 6B8... and there goes half of your life bar. Say you 2A in a predictable way, Yoshi can A+B -> PG, and then PG K you for instant punishment, which leads to a combo worth about 55% of a life bar. Sounds like MC juggles in VF, to me.

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Conclusion: SC2 is more of a scrub fest than VF 4 Evo. Party games are for noobs...

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Conclusion: You're so caught up in your preconcieved notions about both games, that you've never even taken the time to objectively look at the merits of either game. I don't know what you think a 'Party Game' is, but I'm afraid you're mistaken. Just because a game doesn't have a learning curve like a sheer cliff face doesn't make it a game for "noobs". The fact that new players can easily get into (and enjoy) SC2, does not lower it's value. Accessability is a good thing. This game gets deeper the further you go, just like any other. Your so called 'scrub fest' attracts so many players, because new players aren't intimidated by it. I've tried to get friends into VF4, and they just aren't interested, it's just not a game that's friendly to beginners. In case you hadn't figured it out yet; that's not a good thing. You may like to ride your elitist high-horse, and think yourslef better than players of other games, but don't pass the notions you've gleaned in your ignorance off as fact to people who make take you seriously.

Ignorance is, after all, truly the hallmark of the scrub...

 

Re: Mini analysis.

"Whoring" is essentially you being stupid enough to fall for it or being too incompetent to counteract it (I still have issues with struggling out of certain sequences in BOTH games (Nightmare's variety of staggerfests, certain Wolf sequences that lead to massive combos, etc.)... but it's my fault mostly).

Maxi is low-tier? I could swear he was high-tier... kinda like Lei Fei (all variety... but tough to use consistently... almost entirely on the offensive... etc.)

 

Re: Mini analysis.

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SenoB said:
Maxi is low-tier? I could swear he was high-tier... kinda like Lei Fei (all variety... but tough to use consistently... almost entirely on the offensive... etc.)

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Soul Calibur 2 Ranking Project: Ver. 2.2

Maxi has crept up over Raph, but still sits in the bottom three, the console version beefed them both significantly. This isn't exactly a tier list; it's a matchup analysis. It serves the same purpose. All of those matches have been exhaustively examined, BTW, so it's pretty close to dead on. A few things may have been missed, but it's fundamentally going to stay where it is for some time.

 

Re: Mini analysis.

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b4k4 said:
SC2 is a good fighting game, and a lot of people seem to want to ignore that.


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Quoted for truth.

Pull your collective heads out of your collective asses. SC2 is just as good as VF. Different strokes for different folks.

(Okay, maybe not JUST as good, but definately close enough that it doesn't really make a difference.

 

Re: Mini analysis.

Aside from the major glitches, random funky movement, SC2 is a good game. LOL

 

Re: Mini analysis.

How nice of you get get cute after I just made a few point about your (obviously) fave game.

1: Who in **** were so divine they could decide how one character has "advantage by numbers" against a another one? It sounds, looks and feels like people want to know why they lost? i don´t see a point in tiering at all.

2: You may lose to some players in the neighbourhood who play amazing YunSung, but how many times a YunSung player has won national tournaments? I´m not saying I believe in tiers, but my point is that isn´t a player more important than some funky graph which has been made by only a limited number of players?

3: Whoring? Cerv´s combo starters. Need I say more?

4: By pointing that SC has rules, it was a typo. I meant it encourages button hammering, instead of tactical positioning. All these things can be learned step by step in VF, but in SC2, things change too much, too often. Training modes suck too in SC2, which in itself encourages noobs to whore like no end, suggesting there isn´t much more to it. Not many people out there care about more than a quick fix.

5: You have a lot of points regarding SC2 and I´d be a fool to think otherwise. Positive criticism can help all kind of people to play fighting games, but it still seems so that not all people are either interested in them, or simply are too hard to make believers in any justice in the world. Thanks for your kind educational text, I´m going to SC.com to learn more. I suggest most of you people here should do the same. /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

Re: Mini analysis.

Sorry to say but you can definatly not mash in SC2. I used to talk alot of bad things about SC2 myself, probably in fear of it or something, but you just need to understand that this game is the second most balanced fightinggame out there and that is the truth. And you simply can not mash your way to victory - that's absolute bs. And yes, there is certain balance between characters aswell - far more then in Tekken for example.

Here's the SC2 nationals.

Look at the diversity amongst characters and ask take a good look in the mirror and ask yourself really hard and long if VF has a better one.

/KiwE (Notice there's one Cerv with his "whoring combo starters" amongst the top 25).

 

Re: Mini analysis.

How strangely ironic that "Kageh" won the SC2 nationals. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

Re: Mini analysis.

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KiwE said:
...but you just need to understand that this game is the second most balanced fightinggame out there and that is the truth.

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What is then the most balanced one? *LOL*

 

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PIZman said:

Since I'm not fanatic about either game, I feel like I can offer some light to the situation. I feel like Virtua Fighter 4Evo is more of a career fighting game. I picked it up and got my face trashed. So I walked away from it. I picked up SC2 and beat it immediately. But SC2 was nonetheless fun. I found that the varied fighting styles of VF4E made it into more of...well, excuse my emotion, but hell...it felt more like a ballet. I felt like I really did have to REACT to what the opponent was doing to survive matches. SC2 presented me with challenges, and I felt like all I'd have to do was sidestep and slash away. But that's not to the discredit of SC2 - I'm a fan of hack-n-slash fighting as well.

One of the things that disturbed me more than anything in SC2 was the amount of "copycat" characters - there are at least THREE characters that take on all of the other characters' moves - Charade, Necrid (boy was that was waste of Todd McFarlane's powers), and Inferno. I hate it when games give a character everyones' moves. I had generic characters.

And I'll be honest - I hate Dural. I wish that there was some more well-defined enemy that had its own personality and style.

So...which is better? Who knows. I like the two games for different reasons. I get the Soul Calibur itch from time to time and want to break out a sword and mow people down. But sometimes I get a Virtua Fighter itch, where I want to dig into a character and really feel like I'm mastering something.

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This may sound werid but.... i find soulblade is the best of them all. I find the Fighting system a lot less loss. A seprate story for every character in the stroymode. The end boss is a lot better. I just never found out how the fighting system works in vs's matches. Also i love the intro to it. Much better that the current Soul game. I must of watched it 25 times at least. Well i find soul caliber too loose. I mean with VF and Tekken i know excatly what move i did and how i did it. With SC i find it only know roughly what i just did. Might be my fault for sucking i dunno. I will make the effort to learn though.

 

Re: Mini analysis.

Neo: chill out. You're starting to get irritating.
I know you're a VF-fanatic but that's not a reason to go on a crusade against any other game. Why do you by the way burst blood vessels when somebody mentions words "tier" or "balanced"?

I hate these game vs game so-called "discussions".

And as not to be off-topic: I prefer VF. Soul calibur 2 is not beautiful in my eyes aside from the game intro. I own both games.

- Manji

 

Re: Mini analysis.

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Neonomide said:

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KiwE said:
...but you just need to understand that this game is the second most balanced fightinggame out there and that is the truth.

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What is then the most balanced one? *LOL*

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Chess but the white peices of for scrubs and are top tier sadly. It makes the game unbalanced.

 

SC2 is a very good game, but the cpu in it is ~ umm..yea. Really enjoyable when played with friends and others/almost anybody, whereas when you play vf with some one,--if that someone is new to the series he's gana lose interest quickly, due to too much complexity, and lack of flashiness.
Both are great fighting games in their own right, and cannot be compared.