VF5REVO Command Lists

When sorting a move, the command list loses track of what section you were in. For example, if I'm in the "throws" tab of a character, and then sort by damage, the tab changes back to "normal". It would be nice if sorting by a particular column didn't change which tab you are in.

 

I completely understand. My initial motivation for this post was OTG followups after Wolf's 66P+K when the opponent is backturned -- in my testing some characters can be hit with stand P, some can be hit with dash P, and some cannot be hit at all. It seemed that this was a good format for the combo section. But I understand your reasoning.

 

PROPOSED CORRECTION: Lau’s 6K CH against a Side-Turned Opponent is +18, not +21.

Lau’s 6K on Counter Hit causes a special stun where the opponent keels over. Because of this, the Side Counter Hit is still +18 (and the opponent pretty much gets re-oriented facing forward).

Theoretically, the only way I can imagine 6K Counter Hit causes the opponent to be stunned in a side-turned way is if the opponent has an attack that would cause themselves to be side-turned and I don’t know of an attack that does this.

(It is possible to get the opponent stunned back-turned but the way to do this is very specific as the opponent has to already be back-turned and do an attack that keeps them back-turned and not in the air. In this case, they are still -18, but the 5 frames to turn around applies so you can buffer a 23 frames mid to hit)

EXTRA UPDATES
Side Hit: -5/+4/+18
Side Crouch Hit +4/+4/+18

 

I know green combos are a bit of a tricky issue, but there are a number of them that require exact recovery (2f window to tech) and are practically as good as real combos. I've myself started using some of these against top opposition recently. Escaping them is even less about the ability to hit a 2f window, and more about knowing where in the combo the window is; unless someone is super knowledgeable, they probably wouldn't know such combos outside the characters they play themselves.

You can figure them out if training room CPU doesn't recover from them using regular tech. However, overall I agree that these combos should probably have their own thread or something on the forums..

 

Technically you could slap on a combo category at the bottom, call it "exact recoverable combos", and just slap whatever decently rewarding greens you have under there since categories don't tie you to a single launcher and I doubt many characters have good risk/reward for that stuff from many launchers.

I do agree adding just any random after combo OTG's is pointless but exact recoverable stuff is balancing on the edge.
That said, I'd have to list a 46P+KPP ending spike into OTG for like every combo starter on Goh

 

Some more things ive noticed about the Pai movelist.

• 2KK is missing the step direction, its full circular
• 6P gives stagger on side or back crouch hit
• 6P crouching data is +3 OB +3 NH +7 CH
• WS P+K gives stagger on side hit
• 6K+G is +4 NH and CH on taka

 

Wolf has Toe Kick Stunner (opponent facing away then ) listed twice in his command list.

 

Because the 2nd istance is from the back and the damage changes in that case. Or do you refer to some other version of the game?

 

Toe Kick Stunner
Toe Kick Stunner
They are listed exactly the same for everything except one has "Down" listed in the notes and the other does not have anything listed in the notes. Specifically, they both say (opponent facing away), and they have the same damage. One should say (opponent facing toward) with 50 damage, and the other should stay the same (opponent facing away) with 55 damage. Both should also have "Down". I just checked to see what the difference should have been. Also, if the second instance could follow the first instance directly instead of having a significant gap between the two it would be helpful for people perusing the list.

Additionally, Dragon Screw, Elbow Drop, and Capture Slam are all listed under Stand Leg Clutch. But, the descriptions are all listed as "(From Stand Neck Clutch)". The descriptions should be changed to "(From Stand Leg Clutch)".

 

Also, as feedback to the Command List presentation overall, the "Esc" column was not obvious to some of the players in my locals. They did not realize the column indicated which direction to evade the attack until I pointed it out. I understand it is a holdover from VF3's "Escape" button. The mouseover text does indicate it is the evade direction. But, many of my players only access VFDC on their mobile device and do not see the mouseover text. Since the mouseover text uses the word "evade", I propose changing the column heading from "Esc" to "Eva" or "Evade" so it is more immediately obvious to newer players it indicates the evade direction.

 

It's even better, WS P+K stagger on NH on crouching opponent

 

Double check the data for how Wolf's data is entered for the following 3 attacks:
- Heavy Toe Kick 4K+G
- Toe Kick Stunner 4K+G!P+G
- Toe Kick Stunner against Back-Turned opponent

On the VFDC Command List, they are appearing in the K section while 4K+GK is appearing in the expected section where other K+G attacks are.

Hope this helps!

 

Request to list Goh and Shun PK4 as separate entries instead of PK having the note " to recover back turned" as they have separate frame data.

Goh PK4 is -3 on guard and +4 on NH
Shun PK4 -2 on guard and +5 on NH

This kind of change would probably benefit a lot of similarly marked stance entries as they don't have the same frame data as the listed base move.

 

For screenshots of the moves, would renders like this be acceptable? What resolution and format should they be?

 

Lau 6P+K+G and Kokei 6P+K are high guard breaks but missing the note about them.

 

Taka's should have a note on it saying it can reverse things like his .

I think "Reversal vs non-knockdown HP, HE, MP, EL" should be correct.

 

I’ve been advocating for similar changes to the way moves with optional stance transitions are handled. In other FGs they are typically listed as separate move entries, both in game and in documentation, and I’d like to see VFDC move lists take a similar approach.

Any move that has “press 4 to end in BT” (e.g. Shun Di PK vs. PK4, Lion 2P+K vs. 2P+K4), or “hold input to enter (stance)” (e.g. Shun Di K+G vs [K+G]) should be split into two separate move list entries, especially in the case that the frame data is different. These pairs are, fundamentally, two separate moves in terms of both the frame situations on guard/NH/CH, as well as in terms of the moves players can access afterwards. I would argue that the move lists should capture and document as much of this subtlety as is known, and it is known, in order to more completely and accurately reflect the true depth of the characters’ kits. It would be of value both for players of those characters and those studying the matchup, the latter of whom are far less likely to be aware of such details through their own experience.

I am very late to this, but I was reading through the whole thread and wanted to offer a counter example:

Lion 3K will not inflict a crumple on any kind of side hit (side CH 3K, PKP is a fairly ubiquitous Lion combo), but will inflict a crumple on a back RH. His 2_3P+K will inflict a crumple in either case on RH or CH. Similarly, Shun Di’s 3K will only inflict a crumple from the side on CH, but can inflict a crumple on a back RH as well.

I’d be interested to know what governs this, but I suspect the rule is something like:

“Any move capable of inflicting a crumple on a side NH/CH/RH or capable of inflicting a backdash stumble can inflict a crumple on any back CH or RH, and on NH only if the move would normally inflict a crumple on a side NH as well (e.g. Jean 66P+K).”

Edit: As a final thought - Jean 66P+K specifically does not even come up with a "side" or "back" hit indicator in training mode the way other moves do. If you OM once and do P with Jean, you will get a "side" notification, but if you OM once and do 66P+K, you just get the crumple and no notification. Similarly, if you OM twice in the same direction and do P, you get a "back" notification, but the same 2x OM into 66P+K gets no notification. Interesting.