VF5R Kage Changes

Thanks for the translation! I really like these changes.

 

Myke, does Shippujin /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif replace the old SH /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif? Or is it the same initial move plus a follow-up?

I have to say I'm disappointed they made Kage's SH /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif evade-able to Kage's back -- this is the same direction as SH /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif. He doesn't have SH catch throw either which means the only way he can beat those evading to his back while in SH is to delay attack. Yikes. Also, why make Kage automatically exit from Jumonji stance? It wasn't like JM was very strong to begin with. Ah well.

His throw game is also now kinda pedestrian: /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif takes about 63 points, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif takes 50 points, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif 45 points, and now /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif takes 45 points. And of course, no catch throw. These amount to a big downgrade compared to the Kage of old.

Kage's two additions that seem most promising are /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif. The former seems like a move he can use often in strings (assuming he's safe on block, and he should be) and the latter is a way to discourage attackers and get damage. I guess /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif knocking down is also an upgrade on Kage's mC ability. Overall though it seems like he's been significantly weakened and Kage players will be forced to use a wider variety of moves.

I hope this gets some Kage-haters happy and a few fair weather fans off the Kage bandwagon. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif I'm OK with these changes as it should place Kage firmly in the middle tier.

 

Doesn't SH /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif track to the opposite direction of /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif?

 

To slow of a move to matter.

 

It executes in 34 frames, which means that even if Kage is at +10 the opponent can evade and still guard the move. Kage gets a stagger sure but as in Wolf's immortal words, "So what!"

 

Interesting thoughts regarding SH /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif -- it sounds like they're making Kage harder to play effectively which I welcome.

Unfortunately I was one of the 0.1% who loved to sometimes exit out of JM and sometimes stay in JM. While the combo potential is better when you exit you can still inflict a lot of damage in JM, and I've found that many opponents get confused when you mix it up. You had a choice before but now that choice is taken away from you in VF5R; therefore to me it's a negative change.

 

Kage is the shit!

 

oh yea I also noticed that on the low punches some characters seem to be punching downwards. Why is that?

 

Animation change of 2P

 

*Manjimaru is silent*

 

That's cold. I mean you had to do it from adv anyways so not like it was overpowered / very good.

 

I was hoping that they would do stuff to more "complete" stances I mean like JJ has no point over Shippu in VF5 imo when K+G needed MC to crumble unlike in 4 etc. So I was hoping for more tools (sure nerf some things like fuzzy after Shippu 3p) to make him more of a complete package or something. Options for all situations always even if they're not that strong. Instead all of this just looks like ripping away stuff and nerfing others and nerfing entry to stances to the point of you want to play him outside of stances and/or making them much poorer. That with his new tools out of stance will mean Kage will probably be played out of stances more,... which will be boring. Shippu etc and fun random Jin Kage flowcharts from it was what made Kage fun and gave him HIS unique feel in VF5. So,.. uhm yeah I'm not at all happy with what is happening. Doesn't seem much thought behind certain things.

 

Nice post KiwE, feeling the same thing reading some of these changes. It's one thing to weaken, it's quite another to take away and it seems AM2 is doing more of the latter with Kage. Why take out the roll out of JM? JM is nowhere near over-powered...but then again, I suppose now that Kage always exits JM after a JM attack he has no need for the roll.

 

Some observations from the Kakumobi Kage vs. Eileen clip:

- /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif connects on mach punch MC versus Eileen in open stance; whiffs in closed stance. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif floats so Kage should be able to tack on more after.

- /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif SH /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif works on Eileen when the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif MCs...at least in open stance but perhaps closed as well.

- TFT > /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif > /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif > /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif works on Eileen for 69 points damage, woo hoo!

- Kage seems to have a new move from SH; two jumping kicks. The first jump kick looks like the one from his old /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif (probably high?) and the second is hopefully a mid kick.

- BT /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif has an attack? Pretty cool looking.

- /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif has a high wall throw version and also takes 70 points.