VF5:R Location Test Report!

Aoi still got amazing tracking.

 

Fixed.
P+KPP = may be the best sobering move in the game against Shun (block 8+K+G = free damage & -3 DPs)

 

Hehe, just saying that perfect giant swing also sobers for 3 points and it also sobers shuns healthbar for 80-100 points! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

 

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif.

 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hmm... maybe. If 6P hits a crouching opponent, then 6PP is a guaranteed combo, and knockdown. If 6P hits a standing opponent, you should hitcheck, and not use 6PP, and then you've got nitaku. You're right the G-cancel was kind of useless as is, but if you were hitchecking right, there's more than enough options there without the G-cancel. I'm not gonna complain about an obvious buff to my character, but her elbows are already a massive threat, and much of the basis of her gameplay.</div></div>

Right - I'm not saying an elbow with a guaranteed follow-up is useless...of course not! But where I think you're agreeing with me is that there is no reason for Aoi to ever go for a /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif G-cancel against a good opponent which was the point I wanted to convey. Now that the second /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is special high Aoi can legitimately play G-cancel mind games.

As for Aoi's linearity.../forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif aren't bad. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

learn how to hit check 6PP dude! Making the 6PP a special high wont change much for you if you can't hit check it. Also people are going to deal with it just like FT Jacky's 6PP - block the 1st and duck the 2nd then punish your whiff.

Also the slap is only goo for sober IMO, I usually use 6P+K/ 4K as a high half circular move.

What I am really look forward to are the new G cancel strings, that MIGHT be the only real upgrade. Or the 23P hit throw on normal hit as a guarantee 15f attack for crouching recovery move.

All i can say now is: she sounds better in 5R for offends(more options)but still lacks in power when compare to others.

I think P+G being tech-able is good thing for her tho, good for giving pressure.

Again, too early to make any conclusion now.... more location test> ver.A verB.. etc. Who knows LOL

 

ARGH!! Was my post too confusing!? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

It's a "no duh" to me that you should hit check, but hit checking is only to decide whether or not to tack on the second /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif to get the guaranteed damage. You should never do G-cancel with the second /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif against a good player...it's just not worth it. (MAYBE if you stagger with an elbow might you go for a G-cancel...maybe.)

If the second /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is special high, the opponent cannot just attack but must guard which then allows Aoi to use G-cancel mind games. Unlike FT Jacky, Aoi can do /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif (guarded) -> opponent ducks hoping the second /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif will whiff -> Aoi G-cancels the second /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif -> low throw or another quick middle attack.

In VF5, the above sequence won't happen against a good opponent because if Aoi attempts a second /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif after the elbow is blocked the opponent will automatically go for a low attack. Making the second /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif special high solves this. (Yes, you should hit check and never go for a second /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif if Aoi's elbow is blocked...I get this...but that is exactly why it's boring and why making the second /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif special high is needed).

 

Yeah, we understand ice-9. The point we're making is just that even with the G-cancel being useless, there is a lot of options out of her 6P... the 6PP followup will lose to a low attack, but if you hitcheck, and condition your opponent by reversing a few lows, then you open up 6P > throw opportunities. It's a very good conditioning move without the need for buffing the G-cancel mind game component. If anything, I guess I'd say I wish it wasn't getting this buff, just because her 6P already gets spammed over and over and over by every Aoi player.

Yeah, nin, I guess I agree about slaps.. I didn't use them too much myself, though there have been a few matches where they came in quite handy (against non-shun players, even). I guess I've always felt there was a lot of potential there from looking at the frames, but I never learned to apply it, and maybe that just means they weren't practical. I also agree with your other assessments... canned attacks of G-cancel is an awesome addition. And I always loved using her 23P hit throw... it's surprisingly great as an opening attack, having it work on normal hit would make it really a staple source of damage, in my opinion.

 

Arcadia #97's feature is only introducing one new move per character and two new moves for Jean and Taka... doesn't seem too interesting though.

 

Hmm, interesting perspective. I don't think Aois who spam elbow-swipe are very good, and I think elbow -> low reversal is pretty gutsy and not worth the risk, but everyone's got their own style so to each his/her own. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

I don't mean spam like 6P > 6P > 6P. I mean, it's her 14-frame mid... so same as every other character, it's just a standard nitaku attack, and gets used all the time.

I thought about this a little more, and I think there is one current use for the G-cancel. 6PP (and 6P+KP) can be an effective way to close range with Aoi by whiffing the first hit. It's not something you can use a lot... but it's a fairly safe half-circular high that has a decent amount of range. People who are stepping, and trying to bait you into doing something like 66P+K or 66K, so they can evade and punish can often be caught unawares by 6PP. And, likewise, G-canceling the 6PP can be similarly useful for forcing a failed evade or landing a throw, once people have seen you try to close in with that attack, and are ready to counter it.

I've had a lot of good players tell me that Aoi's elbows are easily her hardest attacks to deal with, because of all the possible tricks like the above that can be done. I guess all I was saying earlier, is that they're really part of the foundation of her gameplay. It's cool to buff them in a way that makes them more interesting to use... but it's also disappointing to see the elbows reinforced as her most fundamental moves, rather than seeing other moves buffed, to make more varied playstyles possible.

 

You shouldn't use whiffed attacks to try and close range because I, atleast, throw out Eileen 46P if I see an attack that will whiff. So players that are really good at this game will punish you for it. The only time you're allowed to use a cancel to get in is when you and up right in their face.

 

Just wanted to say i'm not exited with the prospect of removing DS vane's reversals.

Here's the latest vid from acebreaker for reference. Notice the RTEs.

 

Sebo on 4/18/08:

I agree. I'll miss one of the many options this unique character has.

-----
Sebo now:

I think it is cool that they're removed. It will lead to more inashi and sabaki usage (including /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif); both of which do more damage than reversals (HP/MP reversal was insanely good, but it is escapable at 2 points!). This will only deepen my Vanessa as my tendency after playing for a long time is to input /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif and cross my fingers. Now I can't be that lazy, and at the same time, she got a new launcher (a high that requires MC... to early too see it's uses) and a new low attack (something Vanessa can use more of).

----edit----

The point Jeneric makes below is 100% correct.

----edit again----

Look at that echo effect!

Sebo-echo or Sebecho is what I dub needless rehashing of what I said.

 

I'd hardly say reversals is a make or break feature anyway. Even with Aoi you for some reason seldom see reversals in high lvl play.

 

With a character with mountain loads of sabakis and an inashi for punches it shouldn't make a difference. If you know a certain attack is coming you can still counter with her other defensive options just the same.

 

None of the R changes may be final either..

 

With the changes to the bounce moves I hope they don't remove bounce combos altogether. I heard Akira still has his 43P bounce combos but with the new slam animations I'm thinking bounce combos will be removed for some characters. (hopefully not Lau)