:: VF5 on top again ::

Re: Tekken DR > VF5 again

Given that the game is done, it really wouldn't kill sega to add a bunch of flash to this game - add in some movies, add in some behind the scene extras..give a shit load of extra's beside the vf dress up game.

 

Re: Tekken DR > VF5 again

[ QUOTE ]
DRE said:
They have an uphill battle if they want this game to succeed in the west. Xbox360 is seriously lacking good fighting games. It pisses me off that VF5 is PS3 exclusive when I see the great things Microsoft did in supporting DOA4. They should be doing this for VF5! The fact of the matter is, VF5 is exclusive to a $600 console that we can't even find in stores right now. The PS3 library lineup will most likely be very crowded with Tekken, SC, etc. so AM2 needs to give themselves some breathing room on xbox360. It makes perfect sense to me, but maybe I'm just crazy.

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Makes perfect sense to me too but AM2 seems to focus more on Japan for some reason that's why I guess they favor the Japanese console over the American one. What they need is a better research and development department. Team Ninja doesn't share the same ideas and as far as the Tekken Team it's really about being loyal to Sony due to their long history but AM2 doesn't have that same history so you would think they would consider it.

 

Re: Tekken DR > VF5 again

Theirs no question about it online capabilities would definitely do more good then harm with Virtua Fighter 5 but it wouldn't make it a guaranteed success either. The Tekken series never seen the light of day on the online world yet it demolishes Virtua Fighter here in the States. Fighting games in general is a dying fad here in the US the MAJORITY of the people still playing these types of games are the old school hardcore types with plenty of competition.

You wont see too many brand new series of Fighting games because the current ones hopes to keep the gamer going with nostalgic feelings alone (hence why they had to throw in Ryu in Ken back in Sf3 when they wasn't supposed to be in the game...people complained). Fighting game fans while not all of them play street fighter they all respect it because of the memories it gave them. Hadoken! what fighting game fan doesn't know that cry? and if they don't then chances are they aren't fighting game fans. I mean even on VFDC I bet the majority of the people here are old school when it comes too fighting games. The reason Tekken does better here is cause people have better memories with that game then VF I mean not many people had the Sega Saturn.

I must say when I picked up my Dreamcast with VF3 years ago I would of been shocked that anyone else would be playing the game besides me at the time. They screwed up with that game big time! Any new comer coming into the series with VF3 was treated with a nice manual that contain about 10 moves for each character (P,P,P,K ? anyone can figure out) and the training mode was useless. So anyone that didn't have a Saturn was screwed so that makes a lot of people screwed. VF4 was basically the only VF most ppl had a chance too really play and most of the old school gamers here in the US didn't really give it a chance because they didn't have a connection to the past games.

 

Re: Tekken DR > VF5 again

denkai,
i hear that. not many people have a strong link to VF. I never did. I owned Saturn with VF2 and DC with VF3, both almost immediately at their release. I was just a big fighting gamer, but I must be honest and admit that i'm not an OG VFer. I became a Tekken player.
However, I have seen the light and realized the sexiness of VF. It's tough for most people to come across an experience that draws them into the game.

Also, another thing that's true. Many gamers are just afraid of losing. I dunno why. You lose, learn, and redefine. I play Shang and other MA players and lose copious amounts of matches. I know they have tons of experience over me, but it only makes me wanna play more, 'cause you know, one day i'll PWN him...=D

 

Re: Tekken DR > VF5 again

Sometimes I wonder if there is a traitor working at SOA. I mean no matter how much feedback they get to advertise more, they dont. It's almost like they really dont care sometimes or maybe they want VF to not do as well as Tekken and DOA.

HEY, IF SOMEONE FROM SOA IS READING THIS: I KNOW YOU GUYS KNOW WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE TO MAKE VF5 MORE SUCCESSFUL HERE IN THE STATES, YOU'RE JUST NOT DOING IT BECAUSE YOU'RE TAKING BRIBES FROM VF'S COMPETITION. IS IT NAMCO THAT'S PAYING YOU OFF? IS IT TEAM NINJA?? ANSWER ME YOU BASTARDS!!!

Lol, I'm just joking, I know SOA doesn't read this. Or care. Meh.

 

Re: Tekken DR > VF5 again

[ QUOTE ]
snapz said:

I play Shang and other MA players and lose copious amounts of matches. I know they have tons of experience over me, but it only makes me wanna play more, 'cause you know, one day i'll PWN him...=D

[/ QUOTE ]

U ANET N3VER GONA 2 PWN TEH SHANGSTER IN VF!11111! WTF U NOOB, GO BAK 2 TEKEN FAG!1!11

 

Re: Tekken DR > VF5 again

[ QUOTE ]
ONISTOMPA said:

VF's popularity or lack there of is more of a gameplay issue more than anything else. The thing that's great about VF is probably what hurts it. It's a solid fighting game... and that's it... Casual players in the west aren't really interested in just a solid fighting game, with very little gimmicks, that's gonna take you more than a year to actually understand, let alone be good at it.

Sega can promote VF all they want but the majority of people will flock to the other fighting games for the simple fact that they're easier to pick up and full of gimmicks with wacky characters. Tomonubu Itagaki even though I think he can be a complete moron at times, figured out that in the US it's really not about how deep the game is, because depth is invisible. You have to play the game in order to realize that it's deep but something else other than that has to make you buy that game first. On the other hand, you don't have to play a game to realize that it looks great and cool. In the west, as far as fighting games goes, visuals seems to sell more games than depth. DOA looks great, has people falling off buildings, cute chicks, CG endings and a whole bunch of other little gimmicks that casual gamers can appreciate right off the bat without getting too indepth with the game and eventually those gamers might become hardcore players but their introduction to the game is more welcoming than VF. Mortal Kombat also does the same thing with its gimmicks that sets it appart and so does Tekken & SC with all the flash and wacky characters, lasers etc... VF doesn't have anything that sets it too much appart from those other franchises gameplaywise. The only thing that set it appart, but is not gameplay related, was custom items and Namco copied that in T5 so that's no longer a unique VF feature anymore. Gameplaywise the only thing that still sets it appart from it's competitors is depth but the majority of people don't know that and probably don't care, they just see two characters fighting, nothing special just another fighting game. The dude who doesn't know much about fighting games will have to either choose between VF or the other games on the market with all the crazy shenanigans. And most of the time they'll choose the games with the shenanigans.

It's more of a cultural issue more than anything. Japans overall mentality and their definition of fun when it comes to fighting games is different from the west, that's why VF's always been popular there. As far as DR's popularity over VF5, I think just like everyone else mentioned : they're just bored, I believe SEGA got too greedy with VF4's success and should've stop at EVO. FT made VF5 seem more like another upgrade than a full blown sequel (in Japan). VF4 featured custom items which was something refreshing and new, made you think how come nobody thought about that before and they also changed the VF3 fighting engine which also made it seem fresh even though they went back to the VF2 style but VF5 for some reason doesn't get that same vibe, mainly due to the fact that it didn't bring anything too revelutionary to the table. But it can definitly recover over there I'm not worrying about VF in Japan. But as for the US, Europe and the rest of the world AM2 is going to have to find a way of setting VF appart from it's competitors whether it's with flash, tna or whatever they can come up with because their current formula isn't working so it's probably time for a change. The way I see it is that Team Ninja and the Tekken team... have a better understanding and idea of foreign markets than AM2 which on the other hand has a better understanding on how to make the game but that's not necessarily gonna make it a hit.

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I sorta agree with you about adding more flash but I dont think that VF needs to be dumbed down (I know those weren't your words) I do agree that they could make it more accessible to the masses of button mashers and casual gamers.

One major point that I do agree with you on and, trust me, I have debated it here many times, is that VF needs more flash. Lure them in with pretty colors, sights and sounds and then BAM! GOTCHA BITCH!
Get them hooked to the deep gameplay.

One of the reasons that I think Tekken is so popular is that it can be picked up and played by anyone. Even a 5 year old can mash buttons and pull off impressive moves. But it also has depth for advanced players who want to get really deep into the game.
It's not as deep as VF but that is something that a lot of westerners welcome.

 

Re: Tekken DR > VF5 again

Ouch, it seems like people tend to think this topic about console battle of 3D fighters while the topic has to do with the arcade only(Japan not anyplace else).

Anyway, the real problem of Tekken DR > VF5 in Japanese arcade is that people outside of Japan will not care about VF5 at all since it's "worse" than Tekken DR no matter in Japan or other countires. Yes, VFers could say VF is deep. Tekken players say the same thing too For others dont know much about these two will only pick the one who has more popularity. That means ppl will pick up tekken DR first. Unless Tekken6 sucked bad, (even so there might be a chance ppl will go back to tekken DR instead of get into VF) VF5 probably won't do well outside of Japan without some serious promotion unless there is some stupid hype of VF5 happen. If that's the case you can pretty much say good bye to VF because there wont be VF6(or just a slightly improved version). You really want to waste your time on a game so deep but no one plays? Prey hard for VF's popularity in the states if you do really love this game. May VF be the king of 3D fighting game, amen.

 

Re: Tekken DR > VF5 again

Amen...

So, what about Evo 2k7? It's a pretty big tournament in the States, and if VF5 is in the tournament, it would be a great chance to preach VF's worth.

Of course, there will need to be a lot of people showing up at the tournament to play. I'm sure a ton of people here can go and I guess a bunch of Japanese players would fly down to play too (didn't they fly down for Evo 2k4?).

 

Re: Tekken DR > VF5 again

[ QUOTE ]
CarGay said:

[ QUOTE ]
snapz said:

I play Shang and other MA players and lose copious amounts of matches. I know they have tons of experience over me, but it only makes me wanna play more, 'cause you know, one day i'll PWN him...=D

[/ QUOTE ]

U ANET N3VER GONA 2 PWN TEH SHANGSTER IN VF!11111! WTF U NOOB, GO BAK 2 TEKEN FAG!1!11

[/ QUOTE ]

LOLOL! Shang, you're just mad 'cause i can TFT with f,b+P+G now.

 

Re: Tekken DR > VF5 again

I can say I was never a true vfer my self but I am serious about fighting games well Tekken and now VF, Both games require a tremendous amount of skill to play at high level. They offer it in different ways. Now if I had to say which one I find harder in physical aspect or dexterity I would say Tekken since it relies so heavyly on movments like Wave Dashing snake dashing , Back dash canceling and the fact that Mishimas are a little harder to use then Akira. Now VF's system is more complicated in ways like Breaking throws and nowing what moves will set up what. I believe they are more rules in VF then tekken . But I also Believe tekken lets yiou be a little more creative. I love both games and they are the most in depth fighters out. I dont see any other fighter catching up unless SC4 is as deep/technical as SC2 was for a lot of the cast.

End Result is some ppl will be bias because they have not truly indulged in either fighter to understand it to the extent of the native players of the respective fighter has. NOw Balance wise VF is a bit more balanced than tekken which I can really apreciate but T5DR has proven that Namco is putting more into character balance than they have before which is sweet but every fighter will have some type of balance issue even VF. Just look at LIon in VF4 series /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif...

 

Re: Tekken DR > VF5 again

What, is Lion too strong or too weak in VF4?

 

Re: Tekken DR > VF5 again

[ QUOTE ]
Just look at LIon in VF4 series...

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A little character knowledge will help solve that problem. This is important for all characters, but this goes double for slippery characters like Lion. You'll find that after learning his movelist he's actually quite manageable. If you can bait a Lion player into relying on his riskier attacks (sweeps, lunges etc.) you'll be in good shape.

 

Re: Tekken DR > VF5 again

balance is still a major issue in DR.

There are always characters that are clearly more dominating in each game of the series.

We've all heard in some form or another, "VF is like chess in a sense".
a VF character is like the collective team of pieces.
a Tekken character is like an individual piece.

 

Re: Tekken DR > VF5 again

[ QUOTE ]
Jerky said:

[ QUOTE ]
Just look at LIon in VF4 series...

[/ QUOTE ]

A little character knowledge will help solve that problem. This is important for all characters, but this goes double for slippery characters like Lion. You'll find that after learning his movelist he's actually quite manageable. If you can bait a Lion player into relying on his riskier attacks (sweeps, lunges etc.) you'll be in good shape.

[/ QUOTE ]

I totally understand that Lion can be bated into doing risky atacks but for the the risk or skill it takes to play a character like akira is not balanced with quickly learning lions less risky tactics. I am the first to say VF has some of the best balance around but its certainly not without its shortcomings in certain situations.

 

Re: Tekken DR > VF5 again

No one says you have to use certain characters....

And tiers do exist, no doubt about that, but to say lion is stronger than Akira... that's another issue...

 

Re: VF5 > Tekken: DR again

VF5 is back in 2nd place, this time with a pretty good lead to the 3rd (Guilty Gear) and 4th (Tekken 5: DR)

Gundam has increased it's lead again, though.

 

Re: VF5 > Tekken: DR again

The King is back!

Well, still behind Gundam, but then again Gundam pwns. DR is now in 4th place? OUCH!

 

Re: VF5 > Tekken: DR again

pwned.

1. Gundam
255.0 / pts.

2 VF5
209.5 / pts.

3 GGXX
165.8 / pts.

4 Tekken DR
125.7 / pts.

So the last ranking appears to be an abberation after all. All is well again in the world. Note how the ranking lags -- the VF5 counted in this survey is Version A.

 

Re: VF5 > Tekken: DR again

Just wanted to post some of my thoughts...

I'm a Tekken player and fan... probably one of the most hardcore Tekken nuts out there... I've played VF since VF2 and actually read up and tried to learn the game(mostly played with VF4 and VF4 EVO)... I even got a few of my friends to start playing here...

While I'm tried and true a die hard Tekken fan til' I die... I can tell the polish and shine put into VF... it's an amazing game and it does SO MUCH that I wish Tekken would have. I think one thing for sure... Tekken is much easier to get into... easier to teach, easier to learn... and for me, easier to enjoy. It's simple yes. Does it feel rewarding? Depends... I live in an area where competition for this game is ENDLESS... we have one of the biggest crews around and we're always willing to play.

But for VF... I don't have that luxury... but I LOVE watching/trying things out... I really hope VF5 blows up over here so that more and more people can experience the game and not nominate shit like Mortal Kombat Armageddon and Smackdown vs Raw for fighting games of the year.... T.T ...

I'll be going to Japan sometime this year and one of the main reasons I'm going is to watch/play Tekken and other games at arcades in Japan....

I'm sure the experience there will be much better than it is over here....

Here's to hoping that 2007 doesn't only bring the games... it' brings the players.