:: VF5 on top again ::

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Srider said:

Where's up here? LA? LA only has the old one.

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Oh my mistake, I meant Canada by that. Both of the ones I'm talking about are in Burnaby, BC.

 

Tekken DR > VF5 again

From newest Arcadia:

1. Gundam 203.2 pts
2. Tekken DR 196.5 pts
3. GGXX Slash 191.5 pts
4. VF5 188.1pts
5. Melty Blood 186.5pts

They are quite close to each other now. VF5 isn't really doing good this time. Consider it has the superior graphic, "great/deep" gameplay, character customization, lots of promotion and lots of tournaments, it can't even beat Tekken DR? VF fever in Japan is finally gone?

 

Re: Tekken DR > VF5 again

VF5 actually has more points then last month.

 

Re: Tekken DR > VF5 again

What exactly are this points?

 

Re: Tekken DR > VF5 again

Consider Tekken DR's recent 5 on 5 tournament in Japan has 200 plus players to enter. And top Korean players are going to form a team for the next 5 on 5 tournament. Tekken DR could be as popular as VF5 for a while.

 

Re: Tekken DR > VF5 again

it's the comp, not the game. i've been a tekken player since T1. however, i feel VF is a better "game". it's just that the competition locally and internationally is just grand for tekken. i'm sure a lot of japanese players still prefer VF over tekken, but they wanted a piece of the action just for the heck of it.

take Mishimastar...he's an Akira player, I've seen some of his FT and VF5 vids. In tekken, he plays a very beastly heihachi/kazuya. His teammates from Team No Respect are also beastly. This beastliness is due to VF, i swear to you. You can tell by the movements and tactics they apply from VF when they play tekken.
...that was slightly off topic, but you guys get my point: VF>>> =)

 

Re: Tekken DR > VF5 again

Well, let the number tells the story. If VF is still hang around Tekken DR next few months for just a few points difference, it's obvious that Japanese players like Tekken DR more than VF5 (the newer game usually has more popularity). It's unlikely those playing Tekken DR is going to tell you "I think VF5 is better game." Otherwise, they are all YAAFIs...

Anyway, VF is all about competition. It's popular because of competition, it's deep because of competition(Guess who found those technique? Competitive ones or causal ones?). Tekken DR, as from what I observed, played a bit of course, has plenty techniques as well. But that's a totally different set of technique comparing to VF. You like it you will think it's fun or deep. Otherwise, you will think it's broken, or doesn't really exist at all therefore it's shallow. I believe Japanese's hype over Tekken is due to T5's huge improvement compare with the previous ones. Plus the domination of Korean players in SBO 05 bought up a lot of attention too. On the other hand, VF5 didnt change that much from VF4. With GGXX Accent Core, Arcana Heart, MBAC ver B releasing this month, better prey VF5 could stay in top 5...

 

Re: Tekken DR > VF5 again

hmmm, numbers don't mean much, especially when they are that close. if the points differ so little, why would you think Japanese players obviously like DR more? There are plenty of players that play a particular fighting game, but think something else is a better game. It's just that they are playing for the competition. Soul Calibur 3 was hot shit for a good while in USA. It made many Tekken players switch. Why? Because of the hype during that period of time which brought masses of competition. Was SC3 a better game than Tekken? (you can say yes if that is your preference), but many agreed No. Tekken was still clearly a "better game" to most players, but they played SC3 at that given time. Same can go with the comparison of VF5 and DR.

VF is about comp, yes, but so is every other fighting game. The koreans owning in DR brought the hype and japan wanted some action. Japanese players don't necessarily think DR is a better game just 'cause they play it more now. It's just for the hype. That's part of what competition is all about.

 

Re: Tekken DR > VF5 again

This is definitely not a good sign, and should have AM2 worried. Snapz is right in that the numbers are close enough that differences could just be due to rounding error, but this is still a far cry from the VF2/VF3 days when VF just out-dominated everything else in the way Gundam has been doing the past few years.

I think some of the driving factors include:

- Arcadia's points are distribution driven. The more machines out there, the higher the number of points. Arcades in Japan are clearly on a down turn, and operators may be hesitant to buy new hardware (i.e. VF5). Thus Tekken continues to be played because it's already there, but VF players don't play VF4 because there is now VF5 and so they travel to the fewer arcades that have it to play it. Or maybe they don't play it at all.

- Maybe Japanese players are bored with VF. It's known that the gap between VF5 and VF4 is smaller than any other previous iteration. Tekken has never been all that popular in Japan, and maybe now Japanese players are turning to it as a "fresh" alternative. (Ironically I'm hoping for the reverse to be true in the U.S...that Tekken players turn to VF for something different. We've already begun to see this by several elite U.S. players declaring that they will play VF5).

- Japanese VFers are waiting for the PS3 version and/or frame data to be released before they really get into the game.

- The talent gap between the elite VF players and the good VF players have widened so much that most good players have given up going hardcore in VF and have migrated to other games such as Tekken.

In any case, we shall see if VF5's dip in the rankings is temporary or permanent over the next 6 months.

 

Re: Tekken DR > VF5 again

It is not important what is better game or worst one. Only important thing is that you say only on the "background" of your post - ie how many players competate. If noone will competate in VF5, it can be the very best game in this and all others universes and still it won't bring no money to Sega, so they will cancel this series or will make VF6 more like Tekken, if Tekken will have more competitors (= more money).

Other thing is - more players play this game, more money go into tournaments => more plazers come to play that game. And more players = more discovered technics, more awesome matches, more top players... And so on.

This is why all this numbers are so important; and in many points of view more iportant that that real "quality" of any game.

BTW I can tell you plenty of examples of really good games, which never have any continues or somethign, because noone buy them. And vice versa - I know tons of shitty games, which have plenty of next epiodes and other stuff... Only because tons of people, hypnotized by some coercial hype, buy them in milions.

 

Re: Tekken DR > VF5 again

ice-9:

whoa! by "elite players", who do you mean? tekken players? if so, who? 'cause i've been trying to get a lot of Tekken players into VF for the past months. None of them hate the game, but their interest still shines on Tekken.

 

Re: Tekken DR > VF5 again

In all fairness VF4 had two big upgrades, so it's expected that VF5 wouldn't be as big of a change as VF4 was to VF3. Most western players haven't played FT, so most of the stuff will still be new to them. I'm expecting the game to catch on in America much more than in Japan for this reason. The main problem I have with this game is the fact that it's not coming to xbox360. Hopefully "VF5 Evo" (or whatever they decide to call it) will.

Just like Ice-9 said, there are a few top players from other communities looking forward to VF5, so we'll see what the future brings. All it takes is for a few top players to get the others to follow.

 

Re: Tekken DR > VF5 again

it's gonna be a tough call...
DR comes out for PS3 around the same time VF5 does. DR is also a potentially cheap download as well. A few new players playin' on and off, here and there, is definitely a start, but it's a long way from hardcore communities developing outside from what we experience nowadays in VF.

I've been involved in the Tekken community for many many years and I know many players ranging from scrub-top. I can say that you'll probably not get any player to switch. They might play, maybe even somewhat competitively, but they will not give up DR.

It's like the sudden 3S hype. I know Tekken players that also appreciate 3S and play once in a good while, but ultimately, they won't be playing 3S as a main, getting truly involved in the communities, etc. The tekken scene is just too big to give up for most people.

I'm not trying to argue with anyone; I'm just stating what I have experienced, observed, and believe will hold true.

 

Re: Tekken DR > VF5 again

Yeah, with the way that SOA is going, nothing will change with VF5. No one is going to convert.

 

Re: Tekken DR > VF5 again

I've said this before, but it pretty much goes hand in hand w/ what snapz is saying. I think as long as the VF community sits in it's little corner and hopes people will come to is from other games' communities, it's going to be let down. What this game needs is exposure, people need to get VF on the bill at other big fighting game events, and people need to show up. Then people will get interested: when they can see what makes this game great at mid/high level play.

Proof is in the pudding here, a lot of high level Tekken players played VF4, here and abroad: Mad Dog Jin, Tom Hilfigger, Ryan Hart, Shinz etc. I used to play w/ Tom regularly, and I can tell you that he always wanted to play in ANY VF4 tourney if he was there, no matter where his skill was at. He eventually quit, and when I tried to get him to talk about VF on Zaibatsu a few years ago, he basically came off as being embarassed that he'd played VF at all, saying that he'd basically fooled around w/ it and Tekken was better because of this and that.

I mean, what's the motivation to become a good VF5 player atm? So you can play in people's bedrooms, back rooms at offices or participate in a small tourney once or twice a year? Getting a buzzing scene back is the only thing that will grow VF to the level of other games in the US.

IMO the US VF scene doesn't even really believe in itself anymore, no one seems really pissed off about the fact that only Japan got an arcade release, and now the trend has continued (as I said it would) w/ no announcement about release of PS3 Joysticks for the states, while Tekken and DOA get them. And the people it effects most will defend Sega, again, for making these great business decisions. We're not worthy of it, right? If WE, the "hardcore", won't even stand up for our rights as fans, why should anyone else care about the game? Our scene is dead, completely, by comparison to other games. Go to doacentral.com , look at the frame on the right, and see how active they are! They interview their own members, they have tourneys practically every other week, they have rankings, they've got a DOA tourney at every major gaming event in the country! Several of their players have now gone "pro", and are playing DOA at tournaments as a job. The only tournaments we seem to care about here are the Japanese ones, every local tourney is relegated to the "Jamboree" or "Tournaments" sections, not worthy of real "News"; only the big Socal gatherings seem to make the front page.

Maybe if Japanese players felt a buzz of comp from other parts of Asia (or the rest of the world), as Snapz has said about TDR, more people in Japan would be interested in VF5?

I think w/ the design and release decisions made by AM2 about VF5, they've dug the hole to bury it.

bryan

 

Re: Tekken DR > VF5 again

Brian,

You wouldn't believe what is going on with SOA.... you are right, they are digging the hole to bury themselves in.

"I mean, what's the motivation to become a good VF5 player atm? So you can play in people's bedrooms, back rooms at offices or participate in a small tourney once or twice a year? Getting a buzzing scene back is the only thing that will grow VF to the level of other games in the US."

That says it all, and SOA do not realize this nor do they care.

There was the hope that VF5 will change what they are doing in terms of community support, and the attempt was made, but SOA have yet to respond favorably. Oh well, screw it.

Addition: the arcade thing was obvious. There was no way. But the thing that I'm most pissed about, is that SOA is not doing anything extra to make up for it.. US is not getting any exclusive features, nor does the game provide tools for the community to grow such as online ranking or tournament mode. We're gonna have to do this alone, but how many people are willing to put in the work?

 

Re: Tekken DR > VF5 again

[ QUOTE ]
akiralove said:

Our scene is dead, completely, by comparison to other games. Go to doacentral.com , look at the frame on the right, and see how active they are! They interview their own members, they have tourneys practically every other week, they have rankings, they've got a DOA tourney at every major gaming event in the country! Several of their players have now gone "pro", and are playing DOA at tournaments as a job. The only tournaments we seem to care about here are the Japanese ones, every local tourney is relegated to the "Jamboree" or "Tournaments" sections, not worthy of real "News"; only the big Socal gatherings seem to make the front page.

bryan

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Bryan, 80% of the reason the DoA scene is on the rise is due to an obscene amount of money being poured into it by Microsoft and other companies. This is not happening for VF community in the states cause well I think srider already said it. DoA has more tournaments than VF without a doubt, but it's not "exploding" in the numbers sense, it's just alot more active.

Microsoft is making a brilliant move with DoA and other games by establishing and sending their names out to pro organization. Big money leagues that were originally PC only are opening their doors to xbox 360 games. EVO using DoA to get a hold of Toyota sponsorship money is a big example of the money going into 360 games and DoA community wise. I'm not saying xbox 360 is the best console but Microsoft is making some very smart decisions in the long run. If DoA continues to grow into a scene THAT ENTIRE SCENE will be xbox 360 gamers and be shoving money into microsofts pockets. Microsoft is investing in gamers. Something that Sony/Sega does not and will not do.

Now I'm not all in agreement that what is happening to the DoA community is the right thing but the VF community really needs some kind of stimulant or VF5 might not grow too far. No Arcade is a hurt for a series like VF which was meant to be played in the arcades, and no online play to at the very least supplement the arcade really drives a nail. I'm so lucky to have a great place like AI in driving distance but I'm pretty sure there are A LOT of people who are not so fortunate.

Right now from what I read the SF community has finally gotten the attention of Capcom (they added 1 extra grand to the EVO 3S final prize money, hired David Sirlin to make CCC2 with arcade perfect ST, and have hired S-Kill as a community head). Maybe it had to do with placings and exploits of the SF community or maybe Capcom pulled their heads out of their asses. If they can do it, there has got to be some way for this community to yank Sega out of the head-up-ass-syndrome.

 

Re: Tekken DR > VF5 again

Capcom is doing an amazing job in supporting the fans. Look at what they are doing with Lost Planet. This is the future of the game industry, if you can't build a community and establish community support, you will have no longevity with your product.

Namco does a great job in giving back to the fans with Tekken franchise. Look at the investment in arcades, the preview events through WC Maxi, the national tournaments, the packed in stick. There is a very obvious reason why Namco is always more successful in the US.

It all comes down to whether or not a company is willing to invest for the future. Namco is in great shape for Tekken 6. Sega is not in a good shape due to deteriorating community, image as a company, and the PS3 production problem. This is their best chance in making strides in their problems, but Sega will be Sega. Hopefully something changes within this 2+ months of time.

 

Re: Tekken DR > VF5 again

good points guys. I don't necessarily agree w/ the idea of the "pro gamer" thing either, but you know what, there are SO many people who give their hearts and time to these games, at this point, why the hell not?

the point you make Srider, about Namco putting $ into the scene, whether it's doing events, showing T5 for the first time @ Evo, or just cherrying out the arcade units, is the point I tried to make months ago. It's an investment in the future of the IP. It might not pay off in the short run, but not doing so basically exposes the fact that you don't have confidence in your product (or, that you don't care about large chunks of your audience, in the case of VF5 not being released outside fo Japan). It's the same thing: if it's clear to consumers that SOA doesn't have the confidence or desire to release something like the Arcade Stick, why should consumers care? Because the media tells them to? That only goes so far. On launch day, VF5 will hit stores w/ that dumbass packaging, no sticks, no real campaign to push it, no "limited edition" version, no good book about the game, no pre-order bonus campaign, etc. The best we can hope for, if history is our guide, is that we'll get some bitchin' adds that show a living room, and some dork holding the controller with like, bruises on his face. They'll be some catchy phrase like "you've been served!", and along the bottom of the page they'll be 3 postage stamp sized screen shots. MAYBE opm will put it on the cover.

Oh, and it'll come out the same week TDR becomes available for $10 online!

 

Re: Tekken DR > VF5 again

[ QUOTE ]
Unsafe_Dan said:


Right now from what I read the SF community has finally gotten the attention of Capcom (they added 1 extra grand to the EVO 3S final prize money, hired David Sirlin to make CCC2 with arcade perfect ST, and have hired S-Kill as a community head). Maybe it had to do with placings and exploits of the SF community or maybe Capcom pulled their heads out of their asses. If they can do it, there has got to be some way for this community to yank Sega out of the head-up-ass-syndrome.

[/ QUOTE ]


We are trying!!!!!!!