VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fair?

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

somewhere in the thread mentions that getting a taster of the top competition gives you the energy to reach that level, i know ryan went to japan on occasions to play the competition, but it's not the way he trained his game. he always made up his own style based around what he knows. and it was usually in training mode at home.

his main game was in the UK, as he has some local competition like daisuke, and at one time, Jun, columbo jacky and mainly people he knows. but as far as i know, he always wanted to beat down the japanese competition, instead of play like them.

i think you probably cant train your game competitavely unless you know what competition is, that's pretty much what ryan and most other good players around the world did,~ it's fair to say that experience isnt all there is to VF, it's solid game structure based around your weaknesses. and that part doesnt need anybody anywhere around you.

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

I don't think people look at Japanese play (for a lack of better word) in the sense that they want to play like them. Maybe the point is easier to understand if I use the word "top level play." Hell BK, you've been to Japan, you know that the large majority of them are not that good at all.

No body wants to "play like Japan".

People just want to win and be as good or better than top players, which at the moment is dominated by Japanese. I mean, how can anyone possibly deny this unless there is some sense of racial/nationality insecurity involved. With the myriad amount of tricks and essential knowledge involved in being good at this game, it's just preposterous if you don't think that experience and constant competition with good players is essential to be able to win consistently against a varied pool of players. Even your Ryan Hart example supports this claim since the people you listed that plays with Ryan Hart includes Japanese players.

It's too often that we see top players within local scenes get beat down when they travel due to differences of styles. The only people that have proven to be able to handle this kind of situation is top level players from Japan. Even if what you claim is true or possible, there has yet to be anyone from the west that has been able to make it very far in Japanese competition.

Hell, not even Korea or China/HK.

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

wel.... i dont really like to beat around the bush, but i think the "japanese" theme is alittle distorted.. i apologize if i just sound like a nazi..

i think usually, it goes like this... a top level player dominates a scene, and everybody works hard on trying to think and act faster against them. then a player (or a name) from japan comes and plays well against the top player and gives them a good challenge. people then see a seperation within the norm of their community.. and expect it's because of going to japan.

growing up in the UK scene where it was like this for a while, i tried to figure this pattern out for actually a pretty long damn time. and realized that while i was trying to play better and concerntraite harder, ~ the top players in the UK wasnt reading my moves, they were just reading the structure of the game better than me.

then after i learnt how to fuzzy guard better and fix my own traps to force specific reactions, i found it easier to play against more and more styles of play. for example, disadvantage tools, forcing pressure, dealing with the "what-ifs" and finding hidden proporties within moves that break the system. that's the kind crap i was getting owned by in the first place. and i couldnt see through it. not that im suggesting anything at all about my game level, i feel more like im playing the same VF version as them at the very least.

nomatter where you go and who you play, it's not about learning top players, it's more to do with learning how to generally deal with multiple situations within your own game. and actually.. i didnt learn anything inside japan except their energy and will to play the game. i believe that's all you need for the most part of it.

the players ryan played were from the UK, daisuke was studying in england for many years, and jun, well i think he was kindda casual as i dont know much more about him, but his game wasnt as solidifyed.

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

well.
I think some of you should know how Japanese players get better.

in my case, when I used to suck, I brought a VF frame book in the restroom and read it. I also read it on the bed 10 minutes before I slept everyday. I imagined a couple of Jacky's combinations before I slept, and tried them on the next day. this was my daily life without playing VF.

I gradually orgnized my basics, built my Jacky's original combinations, and gained my VF knowledge because of my daily work.

then here is my VF life used to be.
during 1 year just before I was in KS3, I used to play VF4FT 5 to 10 hours usually 4 "weekdays" a week. In the morning, before class, I went to arcades and played a couple of games by myself to check movements and combinations which I imagined at night. After class, I went to arcades to play.

practicing basics is very important to reduce your mistakes. people hardly can see how you practice, but practice won't be on a stage.

I also dedicated one day of my weekends(saturday or sunday) to play VF4FT. I remember I missed VF4FT only one weekend in 1 year. only one weekend because I went sking..... I was on a vacation, but I remember I really wanted to play VF4FT haha. Even though I was not playing, my hands were playing lol

on a few fridays,I played VF from 5 pm to midnight at one arcade, moved to another place and played until 5 or 7 am(depended on days),went back home, slept, woke up at afternoon, and went to tournaments on Saturday. this happened once a month.

...as you can guess, I barely studied and passed my school(hehe), I had 4 hours part-time job 3 times a week to get some money to just play VF, and I played VF4FT most of my time in that 1 year. "MOST THE TIME"

that I got better was not because I am Japanese. if you were thinking so, it's a part of insult.

I don't think anyone here dedicate this much time to play VF. I think Maddy or Rodney played(for Rodney, plays) a lot but still not enough compared to my exercise. Besides, you don't have to spend it into only VF. VF is one of hobbies in the world. there are a buch of hobbies. If you think 1-hour play once a week is good enough to practice VF, that's good enough for YOU. there is no one who can complain it.

However, doing 1-hour practice once a week and complaining the game or opponents whenever you lose does not make sense to ME.
I am not pointing who does it, but there are a few.( guess you may know one of a few hehe)

most of Vf players here are adults, and I don't think you guys can spend their time just for VF since you have to work. that's still ok.

you should ask ryan and maddy how they got strong. how they dedicated their time.

if you want to get better, let's start easy part. bring a frame book and remember your character's one or two frames of moves and check it on the day. it will help you when you play. you will not get confused as much as you get after doing this daily VF work.

like I said, you don't have to be hard. content how you practice is much important.

oops it is a long one again. hahahaa





oh by the way... talking of EVO, I think it may have been or may not have been fair. I don't know. However, I can say that it looked completely unfair. Maddy quit, Rodney and Adam did not come. Therefore, there was no one who could compete with Japanese players. only myke from Australia

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

Hey there, person-who's-name-changes-a-lot* /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

That was an awesome write-up on what it takes to play VF as good as you do. Up until now, I could only guess at the amount of time you spent learning the game.


Thank you for that.


*I just realized your name could be <span style='font-size: 14pt'><span style='font-family: Arial Black'>PWNCAL![/size]</span>
</span>

<span style='font-size: 8pt'>Oh, yeah...

Sign up for school in Los![/size]</span>

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

Ya right, like you ever sucked before. heh heh

<span style='font-size: 23pt'>YOSUKE IS HARDCORE!</span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">that I got better was not because I am Japanese. if you were thinking so, it's a part of insult...I don't think anyone here dedicate this much time to play VF.</div></div>

QUOTE FOR TRUTH!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maddy quit, Rodney and Adam did not come. Therefore, there was no one who could compete with Japanese players. only myke from Australia</div></div>

I'd bet big money if all 3 of these guys had shown up to play at Evo, at least 2 of them would have made top 8. Either one would have eliminated Tokido or Ino if they had faced off in my opinion.

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

I don't think Maddy would lose against Ino or Tokido though. it might be against Nuki. for Maddy, 95% winning ratio against Ino, and about 63% winning ratio against Tokido. 50% winning ratio against Nuki. this really depends on their luck on the day though.

I can't guess Adam and Rodney because Adam probably does not know Pai, and Rodney might be frozen during the matches....


""I'd bet big money if all 3 of these guys had shown up to play at Evo, at least 2 of them would have made top 8. Either one would have eliminated Tokido or Ino if they had faced off in my opinion. ""

I would bet it would have happened, too.

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

If you want an example of how the Japanese beasting can help a scene, look at the 3S scene (A game I detest) before and after the Japanese embarassing the US at an Evo about 5 years ago.

Before then , the US didn't consider the game really worthy, after that- people started playing it more and more.

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

Awesome post by... Rei Ayanami!

This is the part of 3S history that I remember:

-Team USA vs. Team Japan: USA wins MvC2, hooray! MvC2 is HUGE! Japan whoops Team USA in 3S LOLOLOLOLOL (this was like the attitude of the US fans and players). 3S was to USA what MvC2 was and is to Japan--and I'm not just talking the Team Tournament. BTW, I think Penthouse did a story on that tournament ^_^

-3S is still in the shadows of MvC2, CvS (at the time), CvS2 (after people hated on CvS), Tekken, Etc... Heck, Soul Calibur had a bigger presence than 3S so to speak... A lot of the big name players aren't all crazy for 3S competitively. I go to California and it was almost like you had to pay people to play 3S. Heck, 3S was in a similar position as VF3.

-A big midwest fighting game tournament occurs (Myke was there too) and people are surprised and entertained that 3S can be fun and exciting to watch. Many people remember some exciting air parrying and combos. There's buzz... for 2 months... then 3S is back in the shadows and its a repeat of the previous bullet point.

-3S... still dead...

-Years later... a match happens between Justin Wong and Daigo. Videos are posted all over and youtube is linked over and over... BAM, out of nowhere people in California are actually playing 3S and suddenly it's getting more and more popular.

I seriously think it has more to do with online posted videos than Japanese beastings that 3S caught on.

-Chanchai

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

I realize im pretty new to posting on this site and thus new to the community here but i thought i should throw in my 2 cents anyway...

Rather than crying about how unfair it is that you have to fight someone who is better than you and had more time playing the game than you, you could have the attitude of "oh i get to play someone whos going to be able to show me something i havent seen before"

I get that yeah you paid money and whatnot to go to Evo and play in the tourney, but whats the point if you arnt gonna fight the best? Why even go to a big tourney like that in the first place if thats going to be your attitude? just hold a local tourney and save yourself the trip.

and what yosuke is saying is correct. hes good because he has put in the time and effort. If American players had put in the effort that they have put into games like marvel im sure we would be outstanding at it.

anywho im not trying to be a dick or anything with this post, im just trying to point out a few things and maybe show you how you could look at the situation.

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

<--- quick question.

Are americans better at MvC2 than the Japanese? I always assumed they beat us on avg in most games so I don't know. It gives me hope if we are.

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

MvC2 is really the closest equivalent to VF here. AKA, big player base with top level players in most areas in America while every other country it's more of a small niche game. It's kind of been that way with the whole VS. series, but moreso with MvC2.

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

I am pretty sure no one in Japan play Mvc2 seriously now. in other word, i can say yes.