VF5 Brad Thread

Nah... I'm Abare so I dont really give much of a fuck.
Advantage, disadvantage, meh.
Plus you didn't say "attacks that wont clash" in your original question.
Peace.

 

Does /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif clash? I'd have thought it'd be considered a jumping attack.

 

66K will clash.

 

Are you kidding me?!?!? Any of Brad's slip attacks can be used as reverse nitaku against throw attempts. Slip left /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif or slip right /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif and their associated combos work pretty well. If anything the clash system heavily favors Brad.

 

Yo, this is DancingFighterG. Hey ice-9, can you explain to me why the clash system favors Brad. From my experience I clash a lot with characters in this game when I play with brad.

 

Because if you slip with Brad just as the opponent is about to throw you, the opponent's throw will whiff. Then you can use any of Brad's slip attacks to cause damage.

For example:
- Brad's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif gets blocked
- Opponent attempts to throw while Brad does /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif//forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif
- Brad's attack wins, causes crumple damage, and the opponent cries

For a character like Jeffry, he can't really do anything except low attacks and a crummy /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif. When Lion attempts /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif against reverse nitaku and guesses wrong, he eats a back crumple for major damage. When Lau attempts /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif against reverse nitaku and guesses wrong, he can be floated for a big combo. But if Brad guess wrong, he just receives normal hit damage out of his stance.

Consequently Brad's risk-reward ratio is among the best in VF5 against reverse nitaku.

 

Well the simple answer is that it doesn't and Ice-9 is talking cracktalk. You can't slip throws at a higher diss and the minor dissadvantages he's talking about you're just as well of fuzzying without worrying about getting MC'd. At -6 and upwards, say after having your 6_K guarded, gl slipping. Meanwhile a character like Pai can have her 2_6p guarded (her key launcher), be -8, and do 6k+g right into any throwattempt as RN.

/KiwE

 

Some minor findings you guys might not have found... I need to stop whining.

*** Brad 46p+g ***

46p+g>dash in 66k > p6pk. This is quite nice and better then 46k+g stagger which gives a worse (?) situation then evo now. 62dmg for the combo, guaranteed if they TR with timing. With the 30 basedamage of the 46p+g this is nice. This combo does more if you delay it maximum on the p6pk bit (don't know why), 63 dmg or so.

46p+g>dash>3k> leads to a sidehit pos. Threathen with 6_K after for example if they abare. 6_K in general is great in sideturned pos. For even better effect do dash 4k+g,k but it's harder to time.

*** Brad sideturned position ***

Sideturned pos in general vs someone who struggles;

6k>ducking>K>P>66p+k,p => 70dmg and you can go on with okizeme after 66p+k,p as always. You need to be pretty close though.

4k+g,k (44dmg) and go on into variants... since they're sideturned you get a greater advantage then "normally" and they get stunned. KP>deepducking > P+K etc works very well.

6_K; Great range and semicirkular. Don't forget, 6_K is 16 frames specialhigh so mix it up and threathen after Brad PK (+4) from time to time; it's awesome. Just remember to buffer throwescapes if you get fuzzied.

 

Uhhh...OK...it's called delay your slip attack?

 

Don't go "uhhhh... OK" or do teh funny1 cause it's just confusing. I'm not sure at all what you're talking about at this point Ice-9 so you need to clarify instead.

You can't do this;


*********************************************************
For example:
- Brad's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif gets blocked
- Opponent attempts to throw while Brad does /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif//forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif
- Brad's attack wins, causes crumple damage, and the opponent cries
*********************************************************

If you're talking about the CANNED going into slipping from 6p, which would mean /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif>/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif//forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, that an entirly different thing and imo has not much with an RN discussion to do since it's more like a string. Opponents main options there are 2p/mid anyways (remember 6pk?). Bottomline is you can't, in a normal situation like 6p being guarded and you're -6, slip from a throwattempt. I want something to use from 46k+g etc being guarded.

Sidenote: By the way, if you from his canned slips go into phasingturn you actually avoid elbows and can get sidehits with P (against an elbow or something back) and sometimes crumble with K (which is just -1 on guard) as well as avoiding a throwattempt. Remember to phaseturn towards the STOMACH of the opponent for a better situation most of the time. If you do something like 4p/6p>phaseturn towards the stomach of Ja and he tries to 6p you, your phaseturn P will sidestun him. Mix up the sidepos tactics above together with Phaseturn PP(Maxcharge).


Up until -5 you can do 6p+k for RN anyways and it's much better. That or fuzzy. Slipping works much better in advantage (when you can catch an evader with the same timing for instance), everybody who plays Brad knows this. It's not some RN tool normally.

Btw; Abbrevviation is needed!

Slippingleft = SL and slipping right = SR. It was in evo anyways. What should phasingturn and the second level of ducking (long ducking) be called? PT / LD?

P.S; I'm loving VF5 Brad so far. So many options and such great additions. His Oki already was good in VF4 now it's just insane ^____^

/KiwE

 

Oops, yes, I meant /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif//forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif. Sorry for the typo!! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif The most common reverse nitaku is after a blocked elbow anyway and Brad can go into canned slipping from so many attacks. Worst case, Brad can still opt to go /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, which is better than characters like Jeffry can do.

 

I don't see any real benefits to using /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif as reverse nitaku over the usual /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif. You might as well use an attack that will clash, at least it won't put you in a -6 disadvantage if you actually do beat out a throw.

 

Nobody is arguing that Jeff also doesn't have shitty RN Ice-9, but then again he's attack counterable and beyond after most of his moves anyways /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Btw, are you really saying that it's a common procedure for someone to try and highthrow Brad after guarding his 6p? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif Nevermind, I'll leave the discussion if slipping is good RN for Brad with a totally different opinion then you.

Summary anyways;

-7/8 you have nothing basicly, 2p is your friend (6k, 46k+g, 2_3p etc)
-6 (7_K, 6p+k etc) he has PK which is kinda ok for Brad since he has great PK options / a good PK. Fuzzy > 0-frame throw / PK. ETE if you don't want to RN.
-5 (guarded 2p etc) and down you can do 6p+k at. (SR/SL & PTL/PTR) Fuzzy. You can start to have more fun now. Try doing stuff like 4p(g)normalhit >0-framethrow from time to time as RN (you can catch someone using OM as a bonus as it's semicircular).
-4 and down you can start to use 2p+k6p and combo in mC.
-3 backdash attacking (446k+g, 446p+k etc) works against throws. Boxstep etc.

Hmmm, I've kinda changed my opinion that he has REALLY bad RN to just bad I think. But still, I'd want a Goh 9k+g, Pai 6k+g, Ja 1pk, Lion 44k, Ka 44k and stuff like that to throw out after I'm in the -7 > 13 range. I really think the clashsystem needs hardcore tweaking.

 

OK Brad players, good points, but my personal experience with Rocketpai's Brad keeps trumping theoretical knowledge in my mind right now. It felt like most of the time that I tried to throw him, he was able to slip and punish--maybe he's just more dependent on slipping moves than you guys are.

 

Cheers guys i just started playing Brad and i'm finding this thread very helpfull

 

I recall reading that Brad's slipping and ducking is weak against throws early in its execution. I've also had my ass thrown out of 6P -> slipping by the AI a couple of times yesterday.

Ah found my source, a guide Myke wrote out:
http://virtuafighter.com/view.php?section=vf4&chara=brad&file=vf4evo_brad_dojo_special.php

Don't know if they changed much about Brad's basic slipping mechanics from Evo to 5 though.

 

Mechanics are pretty much changed from VF4 to VF5 with slipping / ducking avoiding more. In VF4 you were pretty much raped against someone who knew how weak it was and thought beyond the 2p/throw parimeter if you didn't go into it with a hit. On top of that PT and LD (phasing turn, long ducking) wasn't there of course. You must also remember that throws are slower now in general in VF5 if they aren't 0-frame throws which has a whole lot to do probably with how vunerable you are towards it going into ducking / slipping.

 

PT P+K; If it's guarded and you go to the back of the opponent you will avoid mid/throw nitaku. But remember you have to go to the back. Example flowchart; 4p (guarded)>PT P+k (guarded) > PTB (phaseturn towards the back) 2p lowsweep.

PT discussion further;

Remember, flickerjab from PT is your fastest move and it's +3 (!) on guard. Against a human opponent you can set up shit with this. It's awesome. If you've managed to avoid anything with a PT the flicker jab PP is guaranteed due to it's speed giving you 35dmg and +4. On top of that you can charge the secondpart.

Example flowchart; 4p (guarded)>PT P+K (guarded) > PTB (phaseturn towards the back) PP (35dmg and +4).

Against certain characters like Jacky if you PT towards his front the jab will hit and cause a sidestun (cause he does elbows with his front hand). But generally you want to go towards the BACK of the opponent cause otherwise you can get sidestunned yourself. Remember, go towards the back.

Btw, don't forget to fool around with PT / LD > G-cancel > 0-frame throw now in VF5 as it's more powerful.

If they duck you do PT P+K and hitscan if it's guarded or not; what you're really looking for is the stagger. If you get the stagger you can PK / throw or spin on or threathen with other things.

Then you have PT K which is -1 only (!) on guard also and hence can set up stuff (PK straight into their elbow / throwattempt for instance). It crumbles on normalhit so if you can hit it go for it. Finally the low swipe which can be used in Oki Steve fox style etc but is pretty highrisk - a normalhit, low, knockdown.

As a Brad player in VF4 you learned to threaten with ducking / slipping in Oki. In VF5 you should really try to incorporate PT and LD also as the tools from both are great.

Btw; 6_K (CH) > 6pk>ducking K = 69 dmg. More damage and better Oki then the blackbook listed combo 13 (6_K > 66p+k,p > SR K)

 

Just found out you can float with 33p without doing the 33pp part. Pretty nice since you're only exposing yourself to -6 then (which you can fuzzy) and you can combo on normalhit.

On heavier chars I've done stuff like 33p(g)>66k, on char's with less weight you can do 33p(g)>p>6pk/66p+k,p. Pai 33p>2p>46k+g etc. Experiment with it.

 

Good one! I had forgotten about that even though the BradyGames guide does make mention of the fact that you can float off the initial 33P without doing the second P(-13).
Hit checking from the first P is possible and you can delay the second P really nicely.
I used to use it a lot mixing it up with 33P+G but I started getting predictable and I think that's why I haven't used it as much.
Thanks again for reminding about such a great tool... it's so much to remember now, specially when compared to the old, extremely limited Brad.

Oh yeah, what did you mean by:
"Btw, are you really saying that it's a common procedure for someone to try and highthrow Brad after guarding his 6p? Nevermind, I'll leave the discussion if slipping is good RN for Brad with a totally different opinion then you."

Are you saying slipping after Brad's 6P is guarded is good RN or not?