VF5 Brad Thread

Maybe some info here ( http://www.geocities.jp/virtuafighterfive/locationtest/mobile/brad.htm ) that isn't on the other site.

That retreating punch must be 4p+k. It looks kinda odd tbh (speed etc), maybe some sort of sabaki or evasive properties to it.

/KiwE

 

[ QUOTE ]
KiwE said:

Maybe some info here ( http://www.geocities.jp/virtuafighterfive/locationtest/mobile/brad.htm ) that isn't on the other site.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's my shot at it:

My thanks goes to Ice-9 for providing the link for “VFBBS†page here from his Jeffry thread. It pays to take an interest in other characters... /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

For the most part there isn’t a lot that VF5memo hasn’t already mentioned (though for some reason Babel Fish can’t translate this page properly so I’m probably missing out more than I was with VF5memo…), yet there are some new bits of info that haven’t been covered as well as a contradiction or two with input.

For starters, looking at his new moves from neutral:

= Despite what I’ve seen in clips to date this page hasn’t noted or believes that Brad can <font color="red">D</font>, <font color="red">SL</font> or <font color="red">SR</font> from it.

= Now I find this very interesting as from what I understood from Babel Fish; in order to get the high you have to use it to cancel . Sort of like Jacky’s (Fake Elbow) I’m guessing.

I could be completely off and it does seem weird to me for a mid hitting move to have a fake into a high one when both can be blocked by a standing guard, while Jacky’s potential counterpart will get you one way or the other…

= A kick follow up but the writer of the page isn’t sure whether it hits mid or not. Considering the next technique is a low kick, it probably does hit mid for some much needed nitaku.

= A low kick follow up. There’s no mention of it being a sweep or semicircular but considering Brad’s a "Nak Muay" (Thai Boxer) he probably delivers it standing like he does his others. Personally I’m thrilled because as a Nak Muay he should have plenty of strong low kicks that act as starters or finishers of combos…

_ = I don’t have a clue what “_†means in this instance because it’s clearly not and it hits high meaning that it’s unlikely to be his . Though if it is a variant of or even you’d think that the input would be “â€Â, no? If someone is familiar with this type of input notation then please speak up.

Stranger still is that I believe Babel Fish alludes to this move turning an opponent when they’re back is turned and causes a head crumble on a counter… It’s all gobbledygook to me…what we really need is someone who can translate this naturally.

+ = My initial theory about this command being related to this clip: PESARAH_vs_karisumaBRAD.wmv.

Link: http://www7a.biglobe.ne.jp/~yacin516/

0:42; the knee into push kick has been disproved as this command is apparently a high punch/elbow attack. It’s still believed to allow Brad to <font color="red">D</font>, <font color="red">SL</font> or <font color="red">SR</font> as noted in VF5memo.

+ = A mid hitting punch/elbow strike.

+ = A mid punch/elbow follow up to the above move. It seems that the writer distinguishes moves he/she thinks Brad can <font color="red">D</font>, <font color="red">SL</font> or <font color="red">SR</font> from with an asterisk, and this is one of them.

+/ = A high hitting punch to either side of your opponent depending on your input direction. It seems like it will turn your opponent either way it hits.

+ = This seems to be the knee starter to the Kao Tone > Teep combo I’ve been raving about lately. It’s a mid knee that changes Brad’s foot stance.

+ = The push kick follow up; as observed earlier it hits mid and allows Brad to <font color="red">D</font>, <font color="red">SL</font> or <font color="red">SR</font> from it.

+ = A high punch/elbow type attack that seems to mirror Brad’s new series of attacks in that in order to get the you have to use it to cancel +; again going from mid to high.

I just want to get something off my chest before I continue: With regards to these supposed new “fake out†moves. From a Muay Thai student’s perspective these types of tactics have merit in reality as one can’t have a “perfect defence†(well, unless you count not being where your opponent strikes...but for the sake of argument…) at a single moment because by blocking attacks to the front of your face you’re open to attacks to the side of your head and elsewhere.

Now for instance; if you plan to deliver a knee kick to your opponent’s chest with your lead leg, he/she has to lower their guard to intercept the blow. At this point you could drop the knee, placing it down firmly and deliver a hook with your rear arm and smack them in the side of their skull. Unlike VF where if you block a mid attack standing you’ll also block a high attack making the switch to either one moot if the opponent continues to hold . There’s no nitaku.

+ = A high punch that probably leads into in a mid kick like along the same lines as the string.

+ = Again like the series the high can be followed up with a . Combined with the potential to either hit low or probably mid by inputting just instead this offers Brad an additional nitaku opportunity.

Now that I think of it; the logic behind these deceptive strings might not be to deal considerable damage but rather to poke the opponent much like how a Nak Muay in reality chips away at his opponents leg with low kicks till he can’t stand…

If this is so then it’s another positive step that Sega have made to make Brad’s Muay Thai more authentic.

In summery; beyond the initial or + which differ in range and probably recovery and damage respectively, Brad has some decent options. From the former he can poke from a distance then <font color="red">D</font>, <font color="red">SL</font> or <font color="red">SR</font> with all their potential. Or, closer to the opponent he can get more damage from + then <font color="red">D</font>, <font color="red">SL</font> or <font color="red">SR</font>. The boon is that he has two mid attacks that provide him with the means to capitalise on his distance with respect to his opponent's position.

For example; if your opponent expects you to <font color="red">D</font>, <font color="red">SL</font> or <font color="red">SR</font> then you can cancel or + (with + you at least get some damage) into a high which shouldn’t be counted as an attack in itself (unless you decided to throw…) but rather an opening for the nitaku provided by or .

At least, that’s how I see it. I just hope the animation looks good…I hate the animation for his final of the string, it should be identical to his .

<font color="red">SB:</font> + = The writer of this page doesn’t seem to know the command for <font color="red">SB:</font> +/ but I think he/she believes that it causes a head crumble.

OM and = Both hit mid and apparently the variant is around -14 disadv and upwards if blocked. This coincides with the belief that OM’s should be used from adv positions or situations where your opponent is grossly disadvantaged.

+ = Unlike VF5memo this page notes Brad’s new throw as + instead of +. It’s certainly easier to input this way though it wouldn’t strengthen his throw game beyond its addition as he already has +.


Moving on to Brad’s <font color="red">D</font> additions:

<font color="red">D</font>, <font color="red">D:</font> = This is supposed to knockdown and EDIT: float a on counter. Considering the hassle of getting it to hit I think a float would is a worthy reward.

<font color="red">D</font>, <font color="red">D:</font> + = Not only does it guard break on block but it also staggers on hit but it wasn’t mentioned whether he can <font color="red">D</font>, <font color="red">SL</font> or <font color="red">SR</font> from it as I suspect.

<font color="red">D</font>, <font color="red">D:</font> + = A knee, this is supposed to knockdown on a regular hit and EDIT: float.

<font color="red">D</font>, <font color="red">D:</font> + = A new kick based move not mentioned by VF5memo (Yay!). Though nothing else is known about it other than it hits mid.


Moving on to Brad’s <font color="red">SL</font> and <font color="red">SR</font> additions:

For starters the writer believes that in order to enter Brad’s evasive spin from <font color="red">SL</font> and <font color="red">SR</font> you have to input ++ along with the correct direction. Now that’s in direct contradiction to VF5memo that claims it’s just a direction push of the stick. Note however that this info is headed under the “location test†moniker, at least in its actual web address, so who knows. VF5 hasn’t been released officially so everything is a “testâ€Â…

Like everything else in this thread you’ll have to take this with a pinch of salt. But since neither source has proven to be correct I’ll stick to the VF5memo rendition, it’s certainly simpler.

<font color="red">SL</font> or <font color="red">SR</font>, /, = Apparently Brad can <font color="red">D</font>, <font color="red">SL</font> or <font color="red">SR</font> from his “Flicker Jab†like punch. Works for me. /versus/images/graemlins/cool.gif

<font color="red">SL</font> or <font color="red">SR</font>, /, + = Now this helps clear up an issue I had as this command turns out to be the modified + (Pap Sok Kao) that was witnessed in the Brad vs Aoi clip: up0062.wmv.

Link: http://www.hk-vf.net/staging/frame_set/tv2.html

1:04. EDIT: Unlike its counterpart it causes a stagger on hit, but it also allows Brad to <font color="red">D</font>, <font color="red">SL</font> or <font color="red">SR</font> which is fantastic and means that he performed <font color="red">D:</font> + from it (then into +, , , leaving whether he went directly into <font color="red">D</font> or had to input ++ to get the up for debate).

EDIT: We've recently learnt that the "double uppercuts" in the above combo were in fact + and that possess the <font color="red">D</font>, <font color="red">SL</font> or <font color="red">SR</font> options rather than , which doesn't.


Finally the alterations to existing moves:

= Apparently this causes a foot crumble regardless of counter type which if correct is good news.

= EDIT: The writer was noting the obvious; it floats now regardless of counter.

Members with an interest in Brad who have Japanese language skills need to step up. /versus/images/graemlins/deadpan.gif

EDIT: I still stand by the above comment. /versus/images/graemlins/indifferent.gif


Conclusion:

As ever, nothing is 100%. I could be way off with some of my observations and the game is still in development. Yet this latest source of info has shone some light on new moves that weren’t known prior and added depth to some we already did know of.

NOTE: In an effort to keep myself occupied in between the scant Brad clips that are released I’ve decided to adopt a new way of distinguishing Brad’s stances in the same vein as I use to display Sarah’s <font color="pink">Flamingo</font> stance. So expect to see it from here on out and in previous posts that I’ll edit in due time. It should help make the thread more user friendly.

 

I hope you guys have seen this

http://bradburnsx.hp.infoseek.co.jp/

Looks like a lot of info on each move.

 

Thank you Jeneric, this is very helpful! Though its VF5 info is brief, what it does state is very interesting and it provides an additional source with which I can weigh the info from VF5memo and VFBBS. Cheers. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

Big thanks goes to Jeneric for providing the link to a…can you believe it…a Brad Burns shrine… Who would have thought that anyone would appreciate Brad enough to create a site for him… /versus/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

First up are moves that are either new or are described differently from the other two sources:

= This site believes this hits mid then high. The two other sources believe both uppercuts hit mid. And like the other sites this one doesn’t believe he can <font color="red">D</font> <font color="red">SL</font> or <font color="red">SL</font> from it

<font color="red">D, D:</font> + = Worth noting is that the writer believes this new move is very similar to (Kao Loy) so I’m inclined to believe that the phrase that Babel Fish couldn’t translate meant “floatâ€Â, rather than “charge†or something else.


Input conflictions:

<font color="red">SL</font> or <font color="red">SL</font>, / = This site seems to be updated regularly while the character data from VF5mobile seemed to be updated at the beginning of the month (1/6/06) yet they differentiate when it comes to Brad’s extended slipping: This site and VFmemo think it requires an additional direction push while VF5mobile believes it requires that and ++.

<font color="red">SL</font> or <font color="red">SL</font>, /, = The writer believes that Brad’s new low punch from his extended slipping is with only rather than +. Both VF5memo and VF5mobile believe it’s the latter.

+ = Like VFBBS this site believes Brad’s new throw is + rather than + as VF5memo would have us believe.

/+ = These new moves have got me confused as back in VF4 + was the start of Brad’s Shovel Hook string which led into the Last Shot straight punch. The thing is, I’ve seen this in VF5, quite recently too.

In this clip: PESARAH_vs_karisumaBRAD.wmv.

Link: http://www7a.biglobe.ne.jp/~yacin516/

0:46: Brad performs what we’ve known as + in VF4 and it produces the same slam stun that we’re all familiar with. So what’s going on? My guess is either “+†has been given a new input or his new /+ (which all three sources seem to agree exists btw) doesn’t require you to input the command straight away but rather as a pseudo DM; tap the stick either or then press + as you would for a regular DM.


Conclusion:

It’s a shame really; this writer has gone out of his/her way to note info on Brad, Brad, and regardless if he/she is actually any good or just typing hearsay, due to the language barrier you just can’t get a solid grip of what’s being said. Pitty. /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

The following comments refers to this clip: up0101.wmv.

Link: http://www.hk-vf.net/staging/frame_set/tv2.html

If only all the Brad players would play like this guy… Whoever he/she is I salute him/her as he/she has the balls/you know what I mean…to actually experiment with Brad’s new moves and has managed to work them into his/her game play. With that said, lets get down to business:

0:16: Starting off the round we see Brad <font color="red">SL</font> from , just in case someone missed this new move before. As you can see, the use of his rear leg instead of his front leg in the form of (Stepping) produces far more range making it a formidable round opener when you consider the options he has from it.

0:20, 0:21, 0:34: I think Nobody is right when he says this is Brad’s new + = A retreating high hook punch (it’s thrown tight so in practice it would be aimed at the opponent’s jaw). It seems to travel back, changing Brad’s foot position, as far as <font color="red">SB</font> and while it allows Brad to <font color="red">D</font>, <font color="red">SL</font> or <font color="red">SR</font> it doesn’t give him access to his <font color="red">SB</font> moves.

It doesn’t look like a technique that will be used often due to its range unless you’re up against a particularly aggressive opponent. While it can be ducked, if it hits it will cause a head crumble.

0:40: Something I wanted to mention that caught my eye; Brad does but cancels the , but almost immediately afterwards we see + (Ti Sok - Bon). It just seemed very fast…perhaps I’m looking too much into this. However, when you consider Brad’s new and + moves have -cancels that lead into other moves, it’s a possibility worth considering at least.

1:03: It’s that knee again. In this instance; Brad shifts into <font color="red">D:</font> , (the first is blocked but the second hits on a counter) , , + for considerable damage. I’ve been thinking about this long and hard and I’ve wrestled with the notion that this knee is Brad’s (Knee Upper). I know it was reported on VF5memo that his had been reanimated so that he kicked with his front leg, and throughout all the early “Location Test Version†clips that featured Brad, that’s what we saw.

Yet, to this day I haven’t seen that knee in the latest batch of clips that don’t feature the “Location Test Version†logo at the bottom of the screen. While on the other hand I have four out of eight clips that feature Brad (I know of nine in total but the ninth could only be streamed) on my HD since the removal of the “Location Test Version†logo and in each instance this new knee is used exactly as would be and possess the same <font color="red">D</font>, <font color="red">SL</font> or <font color="red">SR</font> capabilities.

Those familiar with the series or game development in general will know that moves are added, removed or tweaked all the time. The notion that could be reanimated a second time isn't so far fetched...

1:34: We see + here which Nobody quite rightly said looks like his <font color="red">SR:</font> (I know you meant his Piercing Knee but remember that Brad's stance has been switched to “orthodoxâ€Â/EDIT: reverse stance in VF5, so he now leads with his left leg by default, reversing his direction dependent moves from right to left). It doesn’t change Brad’s foot position as I guessed before but what’s interesting about this knee is how it can be tagged on after <font color="red">SL</font> or <font color="red">SR</font>, /, + if the opponent doesn’t tech roll as seen at 1:44 and due to the fact that <font color="red">SL</font> or <font color="red">SR</font>, /, + leaves the opponent lying sideways even after a successful + you can still attempt a small down attack. Pretty slick all in all and the perquisite of coming from a <font color="red">SL</font> or <font color="red">SR</font>, / makes it as fair as such a move can be imo.

+ appears to have "scooping" properties that rival Sarah’s (Dragon Smash Cannon) and due to it’s short range and relative quickness in that Brad retracts his rear leg rather than following through may mean that it could be useful as a poke. Or even after (Sharp Shoot) on a counter instead of + (Ti Sok Ran).

Ultimately it depends on frame data but if the following + options are to be viable then + has to be decent at the very least.


Conclusion:

This is my favourite Brad clip to date; the Brad player was competent, entertaining to watch and he/she won! I can’t wait to try out <font color="red">SL</font> or <font color="red">SR</font>, /, + as after it EDIT: staggers the opponent I’ll finally have an almost guaranteed chance to unleash <font color="red">D:</font> + (Middle Spin Kick)! /versus/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Bradâ€âs style points are going through the roof with these new evasive and additional techniques. It’s getting close but I’ll have to see every new move in action before I award him my “Stamp of Approval†and deem him a “Muay Thai Masterâ€Â. /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[ QUOTE ]
Adio said:
I know you meant his Piercing Knee but remember that Brad's stance has been switched to “orthodox†in VF5, so he now leads with his left leg by default, reversing his direction dependent moves from right to left.

[/ QUOTE ]
Weeeeell, actually Brad was the only character not switched to orthodox in VF5; he already was, in opposition to everybody else.
I've always been bothered by SR and SL given VF's ambidexterity, though. I guess it's too late to vote to change them to Slipping Out/In or something, especially given that they're official Sega terminology.

Nice analyses. The disputed double-upper from the previous clip was probably +, in light of everything, and the 6_K is for , as you guessed, which is half-circular and evaded toward the back. The numpad directional notation the Japanese favor doesn't lend itself very naturally to held button presses.

 

[ QUOTE ]
nobody said:

[ QUOTE ]
Adio said:
I know you meant his Piercing Knee but remember that Brad's stance has been switched to “orthodox†in VF5, so he now leads with his left leg by default, reversing his direction dependent moves from right to left.

[/ QUOTE ]
Weeeeell, actually Brad was the only character not switched to orthodox in VF5; he already was, in opposition to everybody else.
I've always been bothered by SR and SL given VF's ambidexterity, though. I guess it's too late to vote to change them to Slipping Out/In or something, especially given that they're official Sega terminology.

Nice analyses. The disputed double-upper from the previous clip was probably +, in light of everything, and the 6_K is for , as you guessed, which is half-circular and evaded toward the back. The numpad directional notation the Japanese favor doesn't lend itself very naturally to held button presses.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair play. My understanding of an “orthodox†stance comes from my experience in martial arts where I’ve always been taught to stand with my left leg leading as the default. But I think we understand each other. /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I’ve only just got the hang of theorising <font color="red">SL</font> and <font color="red">SR</font> in my head and noticing his options instinctively. So I’d be against revamping them. Besides, I derive a certain amount of pride from the knowledge…

+ is a possible candidate; “Brad Burns X†(BBX from here on out) and VF5mobile both agree that it hits mid, mid and that he can <font color="red">D</font>, <font color="red">SL</font> and <font color="red">SR</font> from it so your guess is as good as mine. Brad has so many new punches that it’s difficult to put a definite finger on each one till we get a move list. Or a hell of a lot more clips that feature adventurous players. /versus/images/graemlins/indifferent.gif

Ah! Cheers for sorting out that “6_K†mess. Now that I understand it’s it seems a lot more interesting; a high knee smacks of my beloved Kao Dode (“Jumping Kneeâ€Â)… That badge of “authenticity†may come sooner than I expected at this rate. /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Thanks again for your solid contributions. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

The following comments refer to this clip: z25.wmv.

Link: http://www.hk-vf.net/staging/frame_set/tv.html

0:18: Brad performs <font color="red">D, D:</font> +, guard breaks Kage and reaps a free (Jab – Spin Kick). Since it staggers on hit it’s quite likely in that instance that it could be followed up with + (Sok Club) in the same way as you would after <font color="red">D:</font> was blocked at max charge.

With regards to the ability to <font color="red">D</font>, <font color="red">SL</font> or <font color="red">SR</font> from it; none of the three source sites have mentioned that it’s possible so from now on I’ll stick to that opinion till an official move list proves otherwise. In the past it may have been the frame adv of his new moves that conveyed the illusion of shifting into <font color="red">D</font>, <font color="red">SL</font> or <font color="red">SR</font> naturally.

NOTE: I’ll edit previous posts accordingly later on.

0:29: + = You may have been concerned that with the introduction of Brad’s new /+ that this useful series of punches had been given the chop, not so. They’re actual command input is still in the air but personally, I’m leaning towards /+ being additional DM attacks like /++ (Over Step Middle) = The input on paper is misleading as you must tap the stick first, wait a second for the sidestep then input the ++.

Also worth noting is that none of the three source sites (BBX, VF5memo and VFBBS) have mentioned it in their respective “alteration†sections.

0:32: = Even without frame data I’m confident that these attacks will become a staple of every Brad player's repertoire. Why? Get this: floats on a normal hit, guaranteeing the follow up! Changes Brad’s feet position and by itself it doesn’t float unless on a counter, but that’s near insignificant in comparison to the string as a whole.

What’s more; due to the nature of these two uppercuts I wouldn’t be surprised if, with the right timing, they could briefly duck underneath relatively linear high attacks!

…Yeah, I was thinking the same thing too. /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

0:45: Here we see one of my favourite new moves; <font color="red">SL</font> or <font color="red">SR</font>, /, + = In this situation Brad manages to spin to Kage’s right and hit him in the side for the new “side stunâ€Â. What’s interesting is that the Brad player probably wasn’t expecting this outcome as rather than capitalising with pretty much any quick technique out of <font color="red">D</font>, <font color="red">SL</font> or <font color="red">SR</font>, he just tapped …

By this I mean that it was the Brad player who took the initiative rather than the Kage player recovering from the stun, so in those situations Brad has the potential for some serious carnage.

1:12: I think it’s safe to say that here we see (Knee Upper); I guess Sega weren’t happy with the first attempt at reanimating it…and to be honest I think I understand why; looking back over the older “Location Test Version†clips, the opening frames of animation were a little iffy. But, if you’ve only played VF4 then you’re not missing out on anything. As far as I can tell the altering of so that it floats regardless of counter type has remained.

The combo that follows from the knee looks splendid:

counter, <font color="red">D:</font> , , +.

Three of those in a round and you’re laughing all the way to your next challenger. /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

1:13: + = As mentioned briefly above, this new double uppercut string has the uncanny potential to scoop opponents from the lowest depths of a float, easily rivalling Sarah’s (Dragon Smash Cannon)’s ability to wring the last drop of damage out of your hapless foe.

Any string this attractive must have some weakness, or it just wouldn’t be VF yet, without the clinical certainty of frame data it’ll be a while before we know what that fault is. In the meantime; this string has appeared in clips to date only at the centre or the end of a damaging float combo. Considering that + hits mid it has potential to snag crouch-happy opponents but I doubt there’s any merit in continuing with the mid follow up if the initial + is blocked because it’s relatively easy to anticipate and thus evade.

However, + by itself will cause an opponent to stumble EDIT: on a counter, which is very lucrative indeed.


Conclusion:

You hear that? ...No? ...That is the sound of Brad climbing the ranks of power! Firmly establishing his credibility as a character choice and a formidable threat to all who’d oppose him, while valiantly championing the might of Muay Thai! /versus/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Seriously though; things are looking up and up. This clip was the first of three and they each feature top notch tactics. Even without a move list I believe we’re coming close to acquiring an informed perspective on Brad in VF5. /versus/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

Adio, I think it's rather unwise to post this much analysis based on unofficial and inaccurate sources. When we do have the official data on the game such as movelist, it would be much more constructive. Besides, taking up this much prime real estate early in this thread only makes things harder to edit later on.

 

I understand that I’m working with relatively inconsistent data and very few clips but in the absence of hard facts I feel compelled to make the best of what’s available. I’ve made it clear from the get go that until Sega officially release VF5; everything within this thread is the sum of mine and other member’s observations and opinions.

I’ve done my best to offer a neutral and competent perspective, within the context of being a Brad player. For the most part this thread is fuelled by my enthusiasm and hunger for further insight into VF5 Brad.

I can’t see the harm in this. I don’t see how my contributions are any less different than other member’s comments in threads about their preferred characters. Though, I’ll admit that I’m more articulate than some…that’s just my way.

I think it’s a good thing that there’s enough media floating around the net for people to form theories. Is this thread taking up a lot of room? That depends on your perspective; it could also be said that others have been lax in their expressions of interest at the thought of VF5 being just around the corner.

But it’s not my place to comment, nor am I really interested in anything else other than VF5 Brad.

This is a forum after all. What else is there to do but analyse and discuss?

 

[ QUOTE ]
Adio said:

counter, <font color="red">D:</font> , , +.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think that combo in the clip might actually be:
(ducking), , + which is possible in evo and FT.

I still think that double uppercut could actually be +. Maybe +, or looks the same?

 

It’s definitely not + (Ti Sok Ran) which is clearly a straight punch aimed at the gut from the rear arm followed by a rising elbow from the lead arm.

Me and Nobody discussed this earlier: We came to the decision over what we think and + look like because initially I believed that Brad could <font color="red">D</font>, <font color="red">SL</font> or <font color="red">SR</font> from because of this clip: up0062.wmv.

Link: http://www.hk-vf.net/staging/frame_set/tv.html

1:07: Brad <font color="red">D:</font> + sabaki’s Aoi and follows up with a + combo. Within this combo we see two mid hitting uppercuts lead into <font color="red">D:</font> . At that time we only knew of that fit the bill and thus I and others were comfortable believing that till we learnt otherwise.

However, with the introduction of the “VFBBS†link via Ice-9 and then the “BBX†link from Jeneric; we learnt that there was another new double mid hitting uppercut string. What sealed it for me, and I suspect Nobody was that with these three sources, while not perfect, two of them were certain that + allowed Brad to <font color="red">D</font>, <font color="red">SL</font> or <font color="red">SR</font> from it while did not. The first source; “VF5memo†doesn’t even have + listed.

And now that we have clips that feature two distinct double uppercuts (see my second to last post), it’s not that great a stretch to put two and two together. Especially when we have accounts of each string’s properties from the above sources.

So, considering the online accounts and clips, I stand by my current decision. Of course, if something else pops up that says otherwise, I'll give it my full attention. That's the fun of this thread; it's organic. Hopefully each new day offers another reason to write a new post, and if the end result is drastically different from the beginning then it's only because we're a little wiser. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

,:



+,:

 

Thanks for the info and the pics adio / nobody. Keep keeping this thread the best updated VF5 char thread imo. I really love 33pp and 66p+k,p so far. So nice to have some new midtools to play around with \o/

He really feels so much more complete now while he faded to Tekken 5 Steve in comparison in VF4 imo.

Edit; btw the round ender round 2 with K (cancel) P> lowkick? Has this been reported anywhere?

/KiwE

 

Thank you for the supportive words, KiwE. Honestly it’s a labour of love… With regards to your query on Brad’s new strings from - My own observations can be found bellow. But you can now find an unoffical (let me make that clear) summary of all his known new moves and alterations in my third post on the first page of this thread.

The following comments refer to this clip: z34.wmv.

Link: http://www.hk-vf.net/staging/frame_set/tv.html

0:28: Brad performs <font color="red">D, D:</font> + = In this instance it hits Kage and he's staggered, as if he were hit by <font color="red">D:</font> (Ducking Knee Upper) at max charge. In that situation + (Sok Club) is very hard to avoid so this new scenario should warrant the same tactic. <font color="red">D, D:</font> + is looking very attractive as even on a block it guard crushes; allowing Brad to get a in and thus (Jab – Spin Kick), so when it actually hits there appears to be a great opportunity for damage.

0:43: Here we finally see in action = Notice that hits normally (no yellow or red counter hit effect) for a decent float yet how takes Kage higher for serious airtime. The following combo speaks for itself really:

, , +.

Did you see how close Kage was to the ground by the time + hit him? ...Indeed.

0:45: An interesting tactic that has arisen from the introduction of Brad’s new evasive spins from <font color="red">SL</font> or <font color="red">SR</font>, / = Here after the float combo at 0:43 we see Kage TR out of the screen and the Brad player anticipating this; from + follows him via <font color="red">SR</font>, as he recovers and is poised to eventually dish out (Elbow Hook – Screw High Kick) because the Kage player chose to crouch guard.

I don’t think the wall behind Kage played a major part in this situation other than denying Kage the option to back dash or couch back dash. Thus I believe there’s a lot to consider from this unique situation. If Brad "guesses correctly" (Yomi) which direction his opponent will TR then he potentially has a lot of options…

If the opponent stands then Brad could attempt:

1. <font color="red">SL</font> or <font color="red">SR</font>, / with its <font color="red">D</font>, <font color="red">SL</font> or <font color="red">SR</font> options.

2. <font color="red">SL</font> or <font color="red">SR</font>, /, .

3. <font color="red">SL</font> or <font color="red">SR</font>, /, for a head crumble.

4. <font color="red">SL</font> or <font color="red">SR</font>, /, +.

Or, if the opponent crouches Brad could attempt:

1. <font color="red">SL</font> or <font color="red">SR</font>, /, + for a EDIT: stagger.

Or, as we saw; pause, returning to neutral then perform a quick mid attack like (Elbow Hook), which if the Brad player had been even more savvy could have led into an advantageous situation from its <font color="red">D</font>, <font color="red">SL</font> or <font color="red">SR</font> options. Rather than the guaranteed damage of (Elbow Hook - Screw High Kick). I find the potential layers of mayhem fascinating.

In a situation where an opponent is prone to TR <font color="red">SL</font> or <font color="red">SR</font>, / is a powerful okizeme tool by the looks of things.

0:59: = I thought it was worth mentioning the range it’s got now that we can see it applied in a strategic manner. The reach of it conveys to me that if it hits with the tip of Brad's foot or is even blocked opponents would be hard pressed to do anything that could punish him in that instant.

1:00: Notice how Brad wins the round with then presses ; it’s a fortunate situation because the Brad player has unknowingly enlightened us on the timing required for Brad’s new cancel string from and probably + too. Because immediately afterwards he/she attempts again and this time he/she is successful.

The cancel seems to be similar to cancelling his (Jab – Spin Kick) or any character’s basic that allows a cancel in that it needs to be performed in the early frames of the move. In this case; if Brad extends his leg then you’re probably too late.

1:01: comes out from Brad’s lead arm, after the nature of cancelling (and probably +) changes his foot position, at quite short range, yet it’s much faster than I thought it’d be. In this instance we’re treated to our first glimpse of = A low kick from Brad’s lead leg that strikes fast and sharp.

Visually looks like a modified version of his small down attack (Gambit) and I find it rather fetching (though I'm biased as I've been trying to nail this technique for ages...). All together the whole string looks very slick and elegant. AM2’s animators deserve a pat on the back.

1:23: Here we see a delayed <font color="red">D:</font> (Cross Upper) hit on a EDIT: stagger for a new float combo:

<font color="red">D:</font> , , +.

And again the okizeme potential of <font color="red">SL</font> or <font color="red">SR</font>, / is brought to the fore as Kage TR's, yet this time the Brad player's guess is off and the + (Jaguar Tail) he/she dispatches to close the distance isn't enough this time to catch the Kage player out who crouch blocks it.


Conclusion:

This clip was something of a showcase for Brad’s new moves and extended stances. These additional movement options from <font color="red">D</font>, <font color="red">SL</font> and <font color="red">SR</font> put him in situations that he just wouldn’t have been able to capitalise on to the degree that he can in VF5. Both and + have proved their worth to me in practice; they make a very effective floater and combo finisher respectively.

<font color="red">SL</font> or <font color="red">SR</font>, / has also shown itself to not only be effective in evasion and initiating nitaku but also in forcing strong okizeme against tech rolls, keeping the pressure constant and providing Brad with attacks at all levels.

In my eyes Brad has really “filled outâ€Â; it’s as if Sega cut him in two (in theory you could even say they salvaged him from Vanessa…) when they released Evo and only let gamers play with half a move list. I have little experience of FT so beyond the statistical knowledge of his additions in that upgrade VF5 stirs me when I think of the range of new techniques I’ll have the pleasure of coming to grips with when it’s finally released.

 

Heads up:

Did Brad's old uppercut float on normalhit now against the crouching Kage in that clip or was it MC? Hard to see with the dust and all.

/KiwE

 

You mean at 1:23? Indeed, I'm not absolutely certain myself... About it being a counter in that situation, I mean. I know it doesn't float off a normal hit, it didn't in VF4, as you know, and in this Brad vs Jeffry clip: up0103.wmv.

Link: http://www.hk-vf.net/staging/frame_set/tv2.html

0:27: Here we see proof that the same can be said of VF5. At least for the time being...That entire match was weak though, nothing new from the Brad player and he/she was a complete turtle… /versus/images/graemlins/deadpan.gif

Back to the main issue though…Ironically the lighting and particle effects are so good that it's hard to see clearly, so I aired on the side of caution and went with what we know of VF4 Brad.

Yet I do have a theory that I'm mulling over now actually that makes a lot of sense to me. In the third of the trio of new Brad clips that were recently released; in this Brad vs Wolf clip: up0112.wmv.

Link: http://www.hk-vf.net/staging/frame_set/tv2.html

0:54: We see here that after (Rump Knee Combination) hits Wolf, Brad goes into <font color="red">D</font>, Wolf seemingly attempts a but is staggered by <font color="red">D:</font> (Body Hook) and subsequently is floated by <font color="red">D:</font> (Cross Upper).

The big “You have been staggered so mash your stick and pray†icon appears in both situations. And though it’s very hard to see I think we should trust in our VF knowledge in this instance and assume that in clip “z34.wmvâ€Â; Kage was trying something similar to Wolf before he got caught out in the same way.

I actually planned to bring up this very issue tonight within my full report for the “up0112.wmv†clip, so I’m glad that you’ve noticed it too. You’re more experienced with Brad than me so I’m laning towards editing my analysis of “z34.wmvâ€Â. What do you think?

 

No no, you missunderstood - I ment his old VF4/Evo rising upper that he does @00.49 against a crouching Kage.

Btw you probably know much more on VF5 Brad then anybody right now (certainly me), I haven't even had time to watch all the clips that has come lately and use this thread to find what's new and then download mostly. Just keep up the good work and sorry I'm not of more help but life's kinda busy right now ^___^

/KiwE

 

Oh, right, no sweat. /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

In that instance I’d say yes; (Rising Upper) did hit on a counter. As we both agreed upon; the stage has a lot of lighting effects, yet we’re fortunate that Brad is wearing all white clothes. This way if you look closely you can see the brief flash of yellow when hits Kage for a mC.

However, for the life of me, I can’t see what Kage was attempting to get countered though…

I think I will update my last analysis. /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif