VF 5 PS3 1080p rumor

Shang you sound like the guy who didnt buy power windows on his car, and needs to vent hate on everyone that did. Its not that hard to open a window, but having that "optional" luxury is nice. Let the people who have the option, enjoy their investments. Why so much anger at an "optional" feature. Shang if your tv could support 1080p would you use it?

 

Oh wow, shang, how informative! You mean the "signal" resolutions a monitor accepts might be different from its "panel" resolution? Thank you for enlightening me! I'm sure I had no idea of this fact. I cant imagine how I was able to point out that a 1024x768 panel scales 720p content, without understanding this fine and subtle distinction between a "panel" resolution and a "signal" resolution.

Why don't you enlighten us more by explaining the lab testing you have clearly been doing to confirm that no human can tell the difference between a resolution of 1280x720 and 1920x1080?

Better yet, why don't you enlighten us by explaining how it is that you claimed VF5 was '720p' and that upscaling it wouldn't be '100% authentic', when the lindbergh cabs have a non-720p panel resolution (1360x768) . . . .

 

The arcade board of VF5 generates a 720p signal (1280x720), this is what 720p HDTV signal is. It has nothing to do with with the display resolution. Read: nothing to do with the display resolution of 1360x768. When people talk about upscaling vf5 to 1080p, they are not talking about changing this display resolution to 1920x1080, they are talking about changing the signal resolution generated by the arcade board (or PS3) to 1920x1080. Do you understand the difference?

If would take way too long for me to enlighten someone who quotes WARCHILD. Instead you can enlighten yourself by:
1, go to google.com
2,type in "1080i vs. 1080p" in the search box
3, read the first 10 results
Do that you will understand a, why anyone who buys a 37in 1080p TV is a tool, and b, why you are a HD retard yourself. Go Texas!

 

Looks like I'm going to have to back Shang on this one. When MSFT studied whether to include 1080p capabilities out of the box for the 360, they conducted extensive research to test whether people could see/appreciate the difference between 720p/1080i and 1080p. I only skimmed through the study, but the conclusion was that most folks could not tell the difference with HDTVs smaller than ~37 inches, and most importantly, the vast majority of people definitely did not want to pay the premium required. Ditto too for game developers -- there's just too much to sacrifice in order to achieve true 1080p. Of course, this will likely change in 5+ years or so, but by then we're talking about a new generation of consoles.

That said it's cool that VF5 will output/upscale in 1080p, and something all 1080p HDTV owners would appreciate. If there's a better option, why not take it? I doubt VF5's source material is true 1080p though.

 

Oh wise and wonderful shang, if the signal resolution of VF5 arcade is 1280x720, how is it displayed on a panel that is fixed at 1360x768 pixels? Are there 80 pixels worth of black bar, or is it the evil of . . . duhm duhm duhm . . . scaling?

No, I'm quite certain I had no idea that this thread was about changing the signal resolution generated by the ps3 to 1920x1080. I also had no idea that this is a much better idea than letting the monitor's scaler take a 1280x720 signal and scale it to display on a 1920x1080 panel. If I had understood that, how could I possibly have been advocating that it was a good thing, and would reduce lag?

Thank you very much for your suggestion to use the magic of google to enlighten myself on the benefit of 1080p. This is what I found:

http://www.carltonbale.com/wp-content/uploads/resolution_chart.png

Wow, it appears that viewing distance may in some small way affect whether 1080p is a good idea. I guess those people who bought a 37" monitor and are sitting 3 feet away from it using it as a computer monitor had some reason to want a 1080p tv. Who knew?

 

If you want to replicate the original arcade graphics... buy a 32 inch HDTV and run it at 720p.... simple as that.

 

No, it is not a simple as that.

From reading the lindbergh manuals, the monitors on lindbergh cabs are 1360x768. This is not 720p. Those monitors are fixed pixel. They can't display anything other than that resolution. That means a signal that doesn't match that resolution has to either be scaled, or (if smaller) won't fill the display.

So if vf5 arcade is outputting a 720p signal, the 'arcade experience' already involves scaling, and you people whining about 'not 100% arcade perfect' are full of shiat.

If vf5 arcade is outputting at 1360x768, there is no way for the ps3 to output that signal resolution, because it is not a standard hdtv resolution. Even if you could output that resolution, many of the HDTVs on the market that are advertised as being 720p capable are going to scale that signal anyway, because their display resolution doesn't match. In which case you people saying 'just buy a 720p tv' are full of shiat.

So, to recap, the argument that a 720p tv is somehow 'arcade perfect' is flawed. The argument that no one can tell the difference between 1080p and 720p, no matter what the viewing distance, is simply false.

Of course, I'm still waiting for the asian master's explanation. . .

 

I cannot explain this to you, KoD. Partially because of my lack of patient towards people, and partially because your appearent igonorance. Maybe someday if I meet you in a gathering and the topic is still in question I'll sit down and help you understand what you are missing. Until then, you are right and I am wrong.

 

Bwahahah . . . pot, kettle . . . why not just admit you know as much about HDTV as you do about english grammar and spelling?

Nice troll, shang!

P.S. - See you at plague's house, if you show up that is /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

 

actually KoD, you are the real troll this time. Blabbing about shit you are clueless of, calling vf5 arcade 'not 100% arcade perfect'? What a fucking moron. I'll explain to you once again for the last time, if you don't get it then you don't get it,

480i/480p/720p/1080i/1080p are signal resolution standards, coming from the vf5 arcade board, ps3 or your cable box. When your display (that's the LCD TV KoD moron) receives this signal, it will up convert or down convert the signal accordingly depending on the native resolution of the display. Say on my 42in sharp the native resolution is 1920x1080, when it receives a 720p signal. It will up convert the 1280x720 signal to fit the 1920x1080 screen. This is the same with your cheap 1360x768 screen and the signal is 1080i (1920x1080), the TV automatically down converts it to fit 1360x768. Now does that mean your signal isn't 1080i when you watch it on a 1360x768 display.. er no.. Does it mean your signal isn't 720p when you watch it on 1920x1080.. err no.. This is how Digital TV is defined! no matter how you twist it asshole.
Do not confuse signal resolution with display resolution, HD standards like 720p/1080i represent the amount of digital data of each given FRAME, not how many lines your TV displays. This is why on a small to medium TV; people cannot see the difference between 1080p and 720p. Imagine when you have 10in computer screen, and you put a picture with 8000x7000 resolution on it. Will you see the difference between that and the same picture with 800x700 when you fit both of the screen? Probably not, unless you are one of these people who buys $1000 audio cables, then whatever
Now we are not talking about using your TV as a computer monitor, that is something completely different. You will want to have a 1:1 display to computer signal ratio when using a computer otherwise it will look like shit, but this has nothing to do with HDTV, 720p/1080i etc. God, I spent 2 years explaining these shit to customers at my part time job, and not one is as slow as you. Spend some time reading http://www.avsforum.com/, and quit being ignorant fuck. Talking about stereotyping Texans.

 

Wow, shang, you really are knowledgable . . . part time job, wow, I'm impressed. AVSForum you say? Never heard of it. Oh, wait, seems like I've been registered on that forum for a year and lurking on it since 2000. Guess I'm too much of an ignorant texan to pick up anything from it in all that time. Of course, it doesn't seem to have helped you much either . . .

I'm not calling vf5 arcade 'not 100% perfect'. I'm saying you're full of shit to imply that the ps3 doing scaling somehow results in less than 100% arcade perfection, because the arcade setup is scaling anyway. As long as the Ps3 can do it at full framerate, 1080p from the ps3 to a 1920x1080 display is a better option than 720p from the ps3, through the monitor's scaler with associated lag, to a 1920x1080 display.

How about you stop reiterating stuff that clearly everyone here understands (duh, signal resolution != display resolution), and explain:

1. How can you claim that the Ps3 scaling a 1280x720 framebuffer to 1920x1080 is a bad thing, but the lindbergh (or its monitor) scaling a 1280x720 framebuffer to 1360x768 is a good thing?

2. Do things (like, say, pixels) look bigger when you are closer to them? If so, why isn't a higher resolution a good thing when you are sitting closer to a display device?

 

This whole argument is pointless.

If you have the proper equipment the scaling technology to 1080p can eek out a tiny gain from nowhere. An expensive enough 480p upscaling dvd player on a native 1080p display actually looks better than a standard definition DVD plater on a native 480p display. This mysterious gain is mostly due to reducing visible pixel grids, commonly nicknamed "chicken wire effect". Scaling can do wonders if implemented properly.

The argument is pointless since no one has vf5 on the ps3 or 360 yet. If the developers code vf5 for consoles at 720p native, then 720p native display is your best bang for the buck. This is wait and see.

720p displays are so common place I can't imagine someone who is interested in buying a new set buying less than 720p.

Given that VF cycle times are long, I wouldn't invest in 1080p if VF is the only thing you use your TV for. If you do anything else 1080p really isn't marketing hype since there will be plenty of applications for the resolution starting this year.

Anyhow wait and see is the cheapest and safest bet till vf5 arrives on both systems.

 

"How about you stop reiterating stuff that clearly everyone here understands "

Hahaha right. this coming from someone who is obviously confused posts after posts with DTV standards and display resolution?? Someone who complained VF5 Arcade isn't 720p because the display isn't 1280x720. What a clown, I can safely say for everyone you are a clueless fucker.

Now retard. When did I say: "the ps3 doing scaling somehow results in less than 100% arcade perfection"?
I said: "upscaling it on ps3 will only <u>increase the chances the port won't be 100% authentic</u>." Have you ever seen console vf2 and arcade vf2? You see how they fucked up on the port? Or were you still in diapers then? Just be glad the game is in 720p already. Sega will never make their console port superior than their arcade counterpart. If you don't understand why I say this then you don't know Sega. And even if somehow VF5 for PS3 is 1080p, the imagine quality isn't going to increase cuz as ice-9 said the source material is going to be the same. It'll be freezing in hell before they'll make console vf5 better than arcade vf5. This has nothing to do with the capability of the ps3. I am certain the ps3 can do vf5 in 1080p running in 60frames, or even running dual screens at the same time. Not the issue.

Last to answer your question:
why isn't a higher resolution a good thing when you are sitting closer to a display device?

Because there are many many other factors that determines the quality of the image on a HDTV other than resolution. Things like Contrast ratio, Color Satuation, Viewing angles are much more important to the viewer than going 720p to 1080p if your tv is shit small. If you are sitting in the optimal view distance watching TV, it is A FACT, most people will not see the difference between 720p and 1080p unless the TV is 50in+, but they'll see shit like contrast and color as long as they can see the tv. I never said if you sit 20 inches from a 37in 1080p tv you aren't gonna see the difference than a 720p, but guess what? Who gives a fuck you are going to blind anways. If you want to freeze screen and count pixels go ahead, no one gives a fuck. This isn't about you and your infatuation about resolution, 1080p costs money, why buy shit you can't use when you can get a 720p that gives over all better picture quality? 1080p is market hype, period. Go ahead be a tool and dump that cash. And I have 1080p TV, I see no difference than my set and the 720p upstairs for about 1/2 of the money if i'm watch football or playing ps3. Now if I freeze screen and start counting pixels like you, I probably will.

The "ps3 doing scaling" here means Either PS3 hardware or PS3 software doing the scaling. as oppose to the TV doing the scaling.

 

I just want to reiterate (because I've seen it in this thread more than once) that the PS3 has no hardware upscaling ability whatsoever. Any "upscaling" must be done on the software (read: game) side.

If having a higher resolution drastically affects an individuals enjoyment of a game, hell I hope VF5 caters to these people's needs. I still maintain that I doubt we will see many 1080p/60fps games this generation; having that resolution at that framerate is just a huge tax on resources. Of all of the bizarre technological hardware pissing contests that this next-gen war has brought us, this one confuses me the most.

 

Shang, if you want to misinterpret my posts to mean that I don't understand that 720p is a signal resolution, and that a device displaying a 720p signal may or may not be native 1280x720, go right ahead - I can't stop you. Have fun with that.

If scaling isn't the source of your problem with the idea of VF at 1080p, what is? That is won't look any better? I never claimed it would, only that it was a better option for people with a 1920x1080 fixed display, because of scaling lag.

Try this:
1. If you're hooking vf5 on ps3 up to a 1920x1080 monitor, would you rather have the ps3 doing the scaling, or the monitor?

2. If you're buying a monitor, and there are two options that are identical in all respects (cost, size, response time, contrast, etc), except that one is 1920x1080 and the other is 1280x720, which one are you going to buy? Specify identical viewing distance and mixed use - Vf5, some blu-ray, some 1080p games, some sdtv.

 

I'll take monitor scaling ANY DAY.. and here's why:
Sega Saturn VF2,Fucked up port
Sega Dreamcast VF3tb, fucked up port
Sony PS2 VF2, fucked up port

Early reports already say PS3 VF5 in 720p is a 100% arcade port and looks fantastic, why the fuck would you mess with it? Please don't fuck this one up. And as it PS3 is already being criticized for it's shitty scaling ablities, have you seen the vf4evo over ps3 HDMI? Utter shit.

I'd answer your 2nd question, but it's a really stupid question..

 

Oh, so you'd rather have a game that lags b/c of monitor scaling, than a game that doesn't look quite as pretty? And of course, it's a bad thing for sega to give that option to their customers . . .

Fixed that for you.

 

No doubt marketing tripe. The Xbox does not have the EDRAM to output 1080P resolution. This is why it is not supported in any games. All 1080P output on the 360 is handled by the internal scaler which upscales from 720P to 1080P

PS3 has no internal scaler. If it outputs at 1080P then it is either scaled by using internal RAM (which would kill bandwidth) or it actually is a 1080P frame buffer and signal.

 

Actually, as mentioned, the VF5 arcade board outputs 1366X768 resolution which is known as a PC resolution and that used by most 50 inch panels.

I dont see anyone arguing this common knowledge point.

Who is talking about a 10 inch monitor? Trying to make obscene comparisons because your original point makes no sense?
As Ive said its quite easy on a 19 inch monitor to tell the difference between 1280X720 and 1920X1080. Just change the res on the PC you are on now to confirm this.
As expected this difference is further exaggerated when using a larger (37 inch) monitor.

There is little difference between a LCD PC montior and a LCD TV. One usually has a tuner and the other does not. They both perform identically outside of that. They both have set dot pitch for their pixels (the TV usually being larger) and they both have scalers and accept a wide variety of signals.
They both readily show the difference between these scaled signals, like 720P and 1080P.

 

I'll admit with all else being equal, 1080p will always better than 720p if you admit with all else being equal 1080p will always cost more than 720p. Now do you see why is it stupid for you to say "all aspect being equal including cost"? If cost isn't a factor I say 5,000,000p is better than 1080p . Beat that!