Version C Tier List

You're throw escaping wrong if you whiff them. I think it really is an issue with your game more so than Kage's strengths. You should concentrate on those first then see how you'll stop complaining about TFT.

I mean no offense just stating my opinion based on what you say and my experience playing you.

 

Well if it isn't Kage then it must be:
Kage players are broken -_-

 

Why do you NEED SO BADLY for people to think Kage is the same as everyone else when you know, in your heart of hearts, he is the best character in the game? Me thinking whatever it is I think about the TFT is NEVER going to change that, it is what it is...

Yes, VF5 is pretty balanced but it is, in no way, perfect.

 

I didn't say Kage is just like anybody else. My point is in the end tiers, especially in VF, don't mean a whole lot. The differences aren't that mute. Bitching about the TFT everytime you lose to it won't make you a better player. As I pointed out, the TFT is the least of you worries as you have plenty of fundamental holes in your game.

I wouldn't have improved if continued my bitching when I was starting out. I don't value character tiers so much, and I hardly think of the character I'm against. I'm much more worried about the person I'm facing.

If Kage is so strong, I wouldn't be having trouble against adamYuki, Konjou, Myke, Denkai, Itazan, so on...I could just TFT them whole day right? Nope, they take it away from my game so I have to rely on other things. In the end it all comes down to us, the players, and not our character choices.

I thought I already proved a point with you when we played Lion vs. Lion. I felt that during one of the Shoutbox Shakedown that you were taking my win away because of the TFT and Kage. As if I won merely by picking Kage. When it wasn't really the reason I was winning against you, but you chose to single it out.

You'll only get TFTed if you let your opponent do it to you. It takes hard work and patience to make strides in this game.

Anyways, continue playing and hope to see you around in the upcoming NY gathering in September.

 

I'm being dense, what is TFTed mean.
thanks guys, and btw, Kage is completely unstoppable. Sometimes I use him and play blindfolded and spam his full circular evade mid that floats on block. Just saying. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

TFT = ten foot toss = Kages /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif throw

ps. I agree with Myke about tiers and their lack of importance.

 

Ah Myke, I thought 4K was full circular, nm my bad.

I think the upper class launcher, even on counter hit, is a huge difference between lau and kage. While you might disagree that the tiers are not based on safeness, that is exactly what i think (don't remember who exactly) itazan or fu~do said about the tiers in one of the arcadia interviews, that the tiers are based on how often moves hit and do damage.

While you can say it's useless to compare movelist, but fact stands that matches are decided by what moves hit more often and do more damage, and that's exactly how those arcadia tiers are decided.

Lau just doesn't have access to the same kind of movelist as kage does. I just don't see why it's a problem to deny that this concept supports the tiers given by the top players in Japan?

Maybe Kage has shitty moves, but something else makes him S tier? I would like to know what is that reason.

 

then you;re doing it wrong

stop playing people who suck.

and what full circular evade mid are you talking about (...)

 

i would tell you which one i'm talking about but i'm not sure about the command input, b/c you know, i'm blindfolded. And if I stop playing people who suck how am i going to win. Sure it takes more time to hunt down 10-5 Kyus with win ratios of under 40%, but if you are patient you can do it.

 

Lau's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is HIGH and leaves Lau at -4 ON NORMAL HIT
Kage's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif MID and leaves Kage at +3 ON NORMAL HIT and +4 on recovery counter hit.

Both attacks launch on counter hit.

I don't think that it's EASY to win with Kage but his attack options and throw game are a little better than most characters and in some cases a lot better.

During the actual game, I know that it's the choices made that wins fights and not tiers but what most Kage players don't want to admit is that ON PAPER they have better options than most characters in the game.

 

What point was that??? That you're good with Kage and that's it?

(BTW, I've been using Lion for 1 month... Not sure how proud you should be of going even with me.)

I heard someone accuse you of thinking you were nice and I didn't really buy it but I see now that you really are firmly on your own nutsack...

"During the actual game, I know that it's the choices made that wins fights and not tiers but what most Kage players don't want to admit is that ON PAPER they have better options than most characters in the game."

Hello???

Oioron, it obviously bothers you so bad that Kage is top tier because it means you're not as good as you think you are...

You probably would pick whatever character is top tier because you actually NEED and WANT the edge... You say you used to use Lion as your main, hmmmm, funny that he was top tier in VF4 when you used him. VF5 comes out, Kage is now the top tier character, ooops, better switch to Kage now...

Look at how you decide what character to use and then talk more sh*t about the "fundamental holes" in my game. You are the guy who picks the top tier character and then poo poos tier lists to convince yourself you're just super-good. LOL!!!

Give it a rest. You're harping on the fact that I don't like TFT as if that was the ONLY weapon Kage has, what planet do you play VF on? When we played in the shakedown, you won 3 of the 6 rounds you won by TFT ring-out, so yeah, those wins do have MUCH less value in my eyes.

Obviously you're not a bad player at all, but the way you talk about your game as it relates to other peoples doesn't make sense to me. Why do you resist admitting you like top tier characters??? You obviously want to use the best guy in the game as shown by the characters you used in various iterations of VF. In VF5R, if another character becomes the top tier guy will you just switch again? I'd put my money on "yes"...

Honestly, it really seems like you really want to have VFDC'ers consider you one of the "top" N. American players, but that's just not the case. I've played Denkai and there's NO comparison between his skill level and yours, your not even close to him, that's why you have trouble beating him. Must be the fundamental holes[/size] in your game that I noticed when we played.

 

Seriously, if you break down Lau's moves and compare to Kage's, you will come to more similar conclusions.

Kage's 3PP, long exe mid, avoids highs, floats on any hit.
Lau's 4P+KP, long exe mid, avoids highs, floats on CH only.

Stuff like this...


Anyways, I played 30 matches or so today as kage in the arcades today. It definitely takes skill to win, I certainly don't deny that. Using Kage doesn't mean auto win, but the utility of moves such as DM P+K, 2K+G, 2_3P are without a doubt, very very good. Compared to all the other characters that I play as mains (Eileen, Lau, Wolf).

 

Hey Gerns,
nice to see you tagged the rock paper scissors line i posted onto your profile--glad people here got some enjoyment out of it.

I have to agree with the ring out on Kage. I'm not getting into the argument about tier (or am I, at the level 99% of onliners play at I don't think tier rankings really come into play, and that a master with Lau is as good but no better or worse than a master with Kage, and a master with Lion) but paranthetical reference aside, i'll say this. Kage is no better than any other charactar on paper or in play, TFT not withstanding. But you have to take it into account b/c he has it. I've played i don't know how many kages that i was evenly matched against, but they win the fight b/c they get cheap ring outs and I dont.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pd7AurcY888

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<span style='font-size: 26pt'>TOO YAW!</span>
courtesy of jide

 

Damn... I'm sorry I asked why. I am no expert Kage player, but I play him a tad and I find it hard as hell to get damage so I was just curious why he is considered S tier.

Any way, my thanks to everyone who helped shed some light on this for me.

 

Well coming from Akira, Konjou I can see why... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbs_up.gif
Akira S tier discussion perhaps?

 

I think that tier list makes sense for the most part. I do think that Shun should be up there in the S+ tier.

Kage does seem to have some edges over Lau, movelist-wise. Better mid half circulars, a more useful man stance, and of course the cheapest thing in VF - TFT ringouts!

 

kage doesnt have a full circular mid.

 

Actually, I know what you are saying here Konjou, since I'm currently spending alot of time with Kage.

Kage just plays differently than other characters. It seems like it's harder to get damage cause his combos are short, and alot of his moves just knock down after first hit.

You really have to adapt, and play it differently from how you play Akira.