Version B discussion and wishlists

Re: Final Tuned System Changes and Version Updates (updated 12/02/2004

Lau's light pounce after + Has always been guaranteed.

 

Re: Final Tuned System Changes and Version Updates (updated 12/02/2004

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+, being a slow mid launcher, is best used after a back dash after small disadvantage (as one of its many uses). For opponents who like to elbow in small advantage situations, this move will always launch when executed correctly. It's mid, uncounterable, and it's animation can beat low punch attempts in the right stance even when Goh is disadvantaged. It can even be used to launch EDTEG. For this reason, there really shouldn't be any complaints about this move. The only thing I can see is that the timing for hitting EDTEG opponent is rather hard, but it is uncounterable. Unlike moves such as yoho, even if you get it blocked, you are fine.

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Granted, all true, but you got to admit the move is slow as molasses. I like using the move but they took away the given times for it to hit. In Challenge mode, some of the stages require you to connect the floater. If you do it openly, the computer will dodge it twice/versus/images/graemlins/shocked.gif If its dodged early, Goh is getting SCRAPED. That's how slow the move is, eh I'll deal.

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Low punch sabaki, like what Ice-9 said, gets you basara for free under the right timing. So it's definitely stronger. Given that you can do basara.

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Heh heh, I'll admit I'm having trouble getting basara off. In training I can only get it facing right and only one throw direction. So far I've only done it once in a match directly./versus/images/graemlins/blush.gif

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With regard to +, because of the animation, if you can throw the opponent up to a wall, you can combo off the wall (as seen in one of the recent goh clips). In this sense, you might want to rethink the times where you do the throw. The strength of it is just changed, but it is definitely not nerfed.

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I liked to believe the beauty of the throw was the gamble for the ground throw. Trying to get a ground throw was a 50/50 chance if the opponent tried to escape it. In Evo, I only knew one guy who could recover fast enough to skip it. I can't honestly say if they made the window shorter but now 3 guys(excluding the original) in the NY circle can struggle and bypass the ground throw attempt altogether. Maybe the players improved their struggle skills, if so, good for them. If Sega made the recover window shorter then I cry NERF!/versus/images/graemlins/mad.gif

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+, you could always throw even in Evo. The only time when you couldn't run up and throw, is if your opponent do not struggle. In this case, you can run up and launch with + since you have +30.

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Was it +30 in Evo with no struggle?/versus/images/graemlins/confused.gif Anyway, the new shrm struggle just put me off a bit, I can work with it. /versus/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Everybody in FT had their moves adjusted to some point. People are going to like some changes and some aren't just like in Evo. I'm being vocal about the changes I didn't like with Goh in FT considering he was a brand new character and I think it was too soon to changeup his game. In general I'm happier with FT Goh, honest. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

To finish, I see no one arguing about Goh getting a new low throw. C'mon SEGA! Make it happen! /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
(yeah right) /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

Re: Final Tuned System Changes and Version Updates (updated 12/02/2004

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Srider gave excellent advice, one thing I would add is that is also a good choice after +. If the opponent doesn't struggle hard enough, it will hit for crumple which you can combo. High damage, low risk!

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I tried that early on and it was mostly blocked if I recall. I'll experiement some more.

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Lau's light pounce after + Has always been guaranteed.

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Yah, I'm prolly thinking of the wrong throw. Maybe its throw.
Isn't there one of his throws that light pounce can be avoided with perfect struggle. I've thought i've seen it done but can't really remember. I know for sure light pounce after Jefff splash mountain can be rolled away from.

 

Re: Final Tuned System Changes and Version Updates (updated 12/02/2004

If they're blocking the soccer kick, you can definitely dash in and throw off the +! If they struggle, your throw won't whiff.

It's interesting that you say the + is slow as molasses (I agree it is), because it executes in 24 frames. One more than 23 frames.

 

Re: Final Tuned System Changes and Version Updates (updated 12/02/2004

apperantly lau's stomp wasnt guaranteed in EVO, creed posted up somewhere one time, but it's etremely difficult to escape. plus wasnt aoi able to reverse the light stomp?

apperantly you had to only struggle between left and right on the ground and only use G ---- if you do a search im sure you can find it. although i have the page saved on my HDD.

just some pointless info /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

Re: Final Tuned System Changes and Version Updates (updated 12/02/2004

The translation from the orange book (I think) of the Q&A section talked about this.

Look here

 

Re: Final Tuned System Changes and Version Updates (updated 12/02/2004

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Ground throw attempt is now easier to avoid after+ /versus/images/graemlins/mad.gif

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just wanted to add that it never was guaranteed even in evo... we are just lazy americans and don't know how to struggle. But everyone is much better now in FT, because we attempt to struggle a lot more, the things you are used to won't work anymore. Simple adjustments are in order. I know you can do it. /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Also you can throw after shoulder. Just waste some frames dashing or doing crouching dash then attempt to throw. If we struggle and do nothing you get the throw. We can't struggle and then attempt a fuzzy guarding at that disadvantage. When all else fails just use /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif It's my weapon of choice in that situation anyways. Just be prepared for a struggle recovery and dodge. Which Adam can do well. If that gets evaded be prepare for defensive techniques.

 

Re: Final Tuned System Changes and Version Updates (updated 12/02/2004

a couple of things:

goh:
1) bt on counter does guarantee a low throw. yay! good luck using it though. hahahaha.

2) now allows for higher damage possibility due to retweaking of . so even though in actuality it doesnt really "duck" anything, nor does it track at all, nailing it will allow for a good combo on most light and middle weights: , , , . does better damage and is guaranteed. on heavies and some middles, you cant tack the last .

3) no possible dp on and 180 is very sad. especially with the lowered damage on 180. was that really necessary?

4) - still can't use this effectively. gives hella little guaranteed damage for long execution and tc. can someone give me a reason why this shouldnt either execute faster or at least be not tc?

5) there was no need to lower damage for clutching ,. it was easy enough to break before.

6) i would love to give up knock down on counter for if it would just be full circular. but that's just me. i guess i should just switch up between and . boo hoo.

 

Re: Final Tuned System Changes and Version Updates (updated 12/02/2004

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Ground throw attempt is now easier to avoid after+ /versus/images/graemlins/mad.gif

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just wanted to add that it never was guaranteed even in evo...

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Yeah, I knew that. I mentioned that later. I've only known Nelson to consistently struggle that fast. His struggle skills are the best. I can't say for sure but I really believe in FT that certain throw's ground recovery was sped up. Did you know that Wolf can't + after a KS throw isnt teched. The person justs gets up faster now. If Sega made it easier to recover after Goh's + then that would piss me off. But eh, I can settle for the light pounce afterward.

 

Re: Final Tuned System Changes and Version Updates (updated 12/02/2004

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4) b,f+p+k- still can't use this effectively. gives hella little guaranteed damage for long execution and tc. can someone give me a reason why this shouldnt either execute faster or at least be not tc?

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makatiel --- try using this move as a backdash whiff tool after you are at advantage nitaku (after your low P or after you have blocked a move), i know it sounds silly to backdash after you are in the upperhand, but it will kill two common reactions from the opponent which is to ETEG or to low P (so it's abit of clever yomi). however this is only a mixup method out of taking advanage of your adv.

note anyone can block the move if they ECD, however, at high disadvantage normally they wont because it's not possible to avoid the standard nitaku game with it.

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other ways you can use which are quite cool.

- on brad strings with knees, or if you can guess jeffry's / wolf's knee comming during your own disadvantage (jeffry's easier).

- straight after a df+p stagger, when the opponent must choose to stand and block or duck/low P -- at this distance. their low P will whiff and you will land a succesful hit.

- against front faced center quick rises from opp like aoi's b,f+p+k.

 

Re: Final Tuned System Changes and Version Updates (updated 12/02/2004

bk, thanks for the tips!

just one question - using the b,f p+k after the d/f stagger - this is for ft right? because (as im sure you know) the distance after the stagger in ft is kind of funny now - you cant really throw after the stagger anymore. i just wanted to confirm that youre talking about ft. thanks!

 

Re: Final Tuned System Changes and Version Updates (updated 12/02/2004

oh sorry you're right!

yeah, that was EVO in mind, haha, but u can try it in ft, i dint get a chance to.

how's the distance thing now anywayz, does it screw up alot? -- i just heard that you can nolonger throw during df+p stagger, i didnt know anything else was changed actually ^^)

 

Re: Final Tuned System Changes and Version Updates (updated 12/02/2004

for me the change in the d/f+p stagger really hurts goh's game and probably most heavy grappler players (regardless of character). where once a well timed d/f+p meant a really mean guessing game, now it's just meh. you can dash forward or f,f p+g, but both are slow enough that they dont work well. the next time i go to an arcade ill check if the b,f p+k can connect from a d/f+p stagger distance.

in other words, it's a pain. i have been trying hard to keep my goh competitive when i play on my ps2 at home so i try never to throw after a d/f+p stagger and to only go for a f p+k, p after an mc knee. man, it's tough. i guess goh got a few things to compensate for these changes in ft, but because i dont want muscle memory to screw me up in the arcade i'm trying to play ft goh on my evo ps2. doh.

 

Re: Final Tuned System Changes and Version Updates (updated 12/02/2004

oh yeah, i also forgot to mention you can use b,f+p+k as a mix-up straight after a shrlm, the hit will connect with the distance and the opp's low P or attack attempt will get stuffed. it also has nice timing, so the hit will connect as soon at the opp recovers making their choice gap very small when you mix it with a throw /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

even if you tiny dash for a throw but use gut punch instead you can still play with the distance abit vs the opp's low P, that's the beauty of the shlrm's spacing /versus/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

Re: Final Tuned System Changes and Version Updates (updated 12/02/2004

AM2 has officially announced Ver. B on their site:
http://am.sega.jp/utop/news/news/vf4ft_ver_b.html

My newb translation:

Akira: guard recovery increased

Pai: guard recovery increased

Lau: No longer semi-circular ?

Kage: A2 (drink point status changed?)
+ damage changed from 60-55 pts
+ normal hit float is changed
+ damage changed from 20-17

Lion: + is easier to struggle now
and damage for each hit is reduced from 12-10 points.
It also mentions backturned + and , but I'm not sure what they mean.

Lei-Fei: A2 guard recovery increased
B2 guard recovery increased.

Goh: guard recovery changed. Disadvantage on normal hit reduced? Damage increased from 16-18.
+ now guarantees low throw attempt on counter hit.

Brad: ++ + damage increased from 16-18.

I hope this latest patch means it's time for the console announcement soon!!

 

Re: Final Tuned System Changes and Version Updates (updated 12/02/2004

I'll combine this info and noodals arcadia info and info from jp bbs and finally update the system page. Thanks dre, been waiting on the official sega announcement before I made the change.

Looks like the list never changed from when I first posted the change (taken from VF4BBS), don't know if Sega was just lazy or no one in Japan contested the tentative list during its test.

 

Re: Final Tuned System Changes and Version Updates (updated 12/02/2004

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no one in Japan contested the tentative list during its test.

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Right now, somewhere in Japan, in an abandoned warehouse, all Japanese Akira players are gagged and tied up until the official release of ver B.

 

Re: Final Tuned System Changes and Version Updates (updated 12/02/2004

I'll fill in what the Feb05 edition of Arcadia reports...

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AM2 has officially announced Ver. B on their site:
http://am.sega.jp/utop/news/news/vf4ft_ver_b.html

My newb translation:

Akira: guard recovery increased


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I think we all know this one. -10 on block instead of -8

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Pai: guard recovery increased


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The last kick is now -15 instead of -10 on block.

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Lau: No longer semi-circular ?


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Correct. It's a straight attack.

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Kage: A2 (drink point status changed?)
+ damage changed from 60-55 pts
+ normal hit float is changed
+ damage changed from 20-17


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A2 doesn't sober anymore.
I believe + doesn't float on normal hit now.

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Lion: + is easier to struggle now
and damage for each hit is reduced from 12-10 points.
It also mentions backturned + and , but I'm not sure what they mean.


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backturned + seems to be changed from a middle elbow to a middle P. I don't know what this move is offhand, so I'm not sure if i got the translation right.

Also + is 2 frames longer.

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Lei-Fei: A2 guard recovery increased
B2 guard recovery increased.


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A2's guard recovery has been shortened. Was -14 on block, now it's -12.
B2 is now -1 on block instead of -3.

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Goh: guard recovery changed. Disadvantage on normal hit reduced? Damage increased from 16-18.
+ now guarantees low throw attempt on counter hit.


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+ damage is now 18. It's now -4 on block (was -5) and on normal hit Goh is at +1 instead of -2.
+ is +6 on small counter hit (was +4)
++: looks like it's possible to do a low throw after MC.

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Brad: ++ + damage increased from 16-18.

I hope this latest patch means it's time for the console announcement soon!!

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Ver B. comes out on the 6th which is tomorrow. I'll be hitting the game center after work to check everything out. What I'm not quite clear about is if these are the only changes from Ver A -> Ver B. My guess is that this is it.

 

Re: Final Tuned System Changes and Version Updates (updated 12/02/2004

Lion's backturned P+K is now a one hand punch , which means Jacky can neutral grab it now.

Lion's 44K's whiff frames has increased. (knew it coming =P)

 

Re: Final Tuned System Changes and Version Updates (updated 12/02/2004

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+ damage is now 18. It's now -4 on block (was -5) and on normal hit Goh is at +1 instead of -2.
+ is +6 on small counter hit (was +4)

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These are good changes for Goh. I just wish they hadn't toned down his knee and lp inashi so much.