Vanessa's Makeover.

It's just a thread, get over it.

The offense you take from this thread is your problem. I'm sorry it bothers you so much that I have an opinion about Vanessa's changes.

I'm guessing that all the racism discussion is getting to you. That's OK. I don't see how this thread is "filthy and disgusting." I don't see why it needs any sort of label at all. You're certainly allowed not to like it. So... what? I don't like eggs or licking stinky pussy and I won't begrudge someone who does.

EDIT: "If you're not jacking off to that character, Then I have seriously no idea why you should concern yourself with a virtual character."

I'm sorry that I'm breaking your rules by wishing that Vanessa still had her musculature without also jacking-off to her. You know... I've heard you complain about Jeffrey's new quotes - I detected some concern in your voice - maybe I should send you some lube.

 

I didnt complain, i said it made me laugh. Its the return of mariner power.

I dont even know how you guys can say muscular Vanessa is an appropriate caricarcture of black women. If you watch any female pro sports, almost all those women are not even being close to being that ripped. And guess what, its genetics that prevent them from being that way. Unless your a female body builder who injects herself with testosterone, you cant build the necessary muscle mass to get that buff and if you do its at the sake of breasts.

So you have people here arguing that VF4 vanessa, who cant physically exist, ripped body, big boobs and white hair is the superior and more accurate depiction of black women just because of skintone. People even stated that Vanessa might be brazillian and her lighter appearance did not bother them as much. Even Adio said she has that Amazonian appearance, geez I wonder where the amazon is. No one knows what Vanessa is!

And for people to casually throw out the word RACIST, in a serious manner, behind the safety of a computer desk and thousands of feet of internet cable, yes, it truly disgusts me.

 

[ QUOTE ]
PhoenixDth said:

I dont even know how you guys can say muscular Vanessa is an appropriate caricarcture of black women. If you watch any female pro sports, almost all those women are not even being close to being that ripped...

So you have people here arguing that VF4 vanessa, who cant physically exist, ripped body, big boobs and white hair is the superior and more accurate depiction of black women just because of skintone... No one knows what Vanessa is!

And for people to casually throw out the word RACIST, in a serious manner, behind the safety of a computer desk and thousands of feet of internet cable, yes, it truly disgusts me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Appropriate... can't physically exist... superior... racist...

Someone may have said appropriate (besides you) in respect to Vanessa's VF4 look. I didn't get that impression from this thread. I thought it had more to do with "do you like or dislike the changes."

In regards to "can't physically exist..." that sounds a little silly to me. So she injects, gets implants, and has a dye-job. Boom! She exists!

Superior... I don't remember seeing that either. I remember a lot of reference to "light-skinned is considered more attractive by society."

Racism... I saw casual mention of it as well as serious mention of it. In regards to your "over the internet" thing. Well... I don't want to fly to the UK to talk to Adio in person about Vanessa when I can use this message board to do it.


Man, there is no right or wrong or accurate or superior or proper or what have you. I think everything is perception-based. I stopped worrying about that stuff a while ago. I like something or I don't like something. That's pretty much it. I don't mind you disagreeing, getting pissed, what ever you want to do. I don't like you to call a whole thread pointless just because you don't like some of the things being discussed. I don't like the condescending tone - it's as if you're saying to me: "get a life - you retard - don't talk about video game characters! - they're not real! - what's the matter with you?! - can't you see this EXACTLY the way I do?"

 

I agree with you on the genetics-part, but I have no idea why you have to sound so bloody harsh...people tend to listen better if you tell them what you think in a non-hostile manner

 

You can always nit pick at words and ignore the main message but,
General points across

People already ASSUME Vanessa is black which is ignorant
SEGA has stated Vanessas Origins are unknown.
K-1 and Pride are very popular in Japan
K-1 and Pride has numerous Black and Brazillian athletes.
Vanessas style with Muy Thai originally included, mimic the styles popularly used in MMA

For all we know Sega COULD have modeled Vanessa Brazillian as they dominated the sport at the time. And maybe, just maybe they want to update her brazillian heritage across in VF5.

BUT that could be wrong also. For a fact though it is IGNORANT to label her Black because of your precognitive assumptions. Its even more WRONG to tell other people that they're wrong, because you believe your ASSUMPTIONS are correct. AND its disgusting when you have to label people RACIST to defend your ASSUMPTIONS.

Yes a matter like race does bother me. Yes I will speak out against it. Yes I will be harsh in my manner of speaking, because a topic like this does incite me.

 

[ QUOTE ]
PhoenixDth said:

You can always nit pick at words and ignore the main message but,
General points across...

Yes a matter like race does bother me. Yes I will speak out against it. Yes I will be harsh in my manner of speaking, because a topic like this does incite me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I like this post better than your previous ones. I still read that I'm ignorant for thinking Vanessa is black. Disagree with me all you want. Don't call me names, please.

I'm glad that things incite you, that you get angry. I like that you think and are passionate. I've found that saying, even screaming: "I fucking HATE this!" gets me a lot farther than saying "what you're doing is pointless." The first is taking personal responsibility - it's all me and it doesn't label or insult anyone. The second is passing judgement and/or labeling based on my opinion.

I don't see things as wrong or right. I like it or I don't - that's pretty much it. I don't like that Vanessa's musculature is gone. I thought it was cool.

 

I still do find it pointless that people can get so racist over a virtua character. It just shows the ugly true nature of certain people.

 

[ QUOTE ]
PhoenixDth said:I dont even know how you guys can say muscular Vanessa is an appropriate caricarcture of black women. If you watch any female pro sports, almost all those women are not even being close to being that ripped.

[/ QUOTE ]

You obviously don't follow track and field. YAAFI!

Marion Jones


Florence Griffith Joyner


Jackie Joyner Kersee

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/...ports-headlines

FloJo died of a suspect heart condition at the age of 38.
Joyner Kersee is nowhere as freakish as Vanessa.

again noted relatively boobless. I dont think testosterone is an illegal drug.

 

- Debi Purcell - MMA fighter



If your gunna pick images, at least pick it from the appropriate sport..

http://www.fightergirls.net/fighters.php

 

ya that seems about right, if your not drugged up on steroids and hormones.

 

[ QUOTE ]
PhoenixDth said:

To let me state it clearly.
I'm trying to point out that you guys have nothing better to do than accuse each other of whos being the BIGGER RACIST. Hiding behind the fact that Vanessa is a virtual character does not make this any better. This thread is filthy and disgusting and now definately in a racist flame war.

The lube and napkins if you already havent figured out is for some poor sap that jacks off to VF4 vanessa. If you're not jacking off to that character, Then I have seriously no idea why you should concern yourself with a virtual character.

Once again I find this thread absolutely pitiful as a pitfall due to the anonymity of the internet and I find all this racist talk just disgusting.

Its just a game, get over it.

[/ QUOTE ]

WE have nothing better to do than accuse each other of being the BIGGER RACIST? /versus/images/graemlins/confused.gif
A racist flame war?! /versus/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Dude, you're insulting a lot of people (not me though) by saying that "If you're not jacking off to that character, Then I have seriously no idea why you should concern yourself with a virtual character." There are a lot of heterosexual guys here that care about their main MALE character's appearance... I guess we're all chronic masturbators according to you, lol
In case you didnt notice, I dont take what is said here seriously at all. I may have some off the wall theories and opinions to you and a lot others but I dont hide to speak my mind, I speak the same here that I do in a room full of strangers and yes, I do offend some that dont like to hear or talk about race, religion or politics, I dont do it to be controversial or piss anybody off, I do it because, unlike most people, other people's views and opinions rarely ever hurt me or piss me off.
But that's me, I did put a disclaimer on one of my posts that this was not meant to offend or insult but I think that the only one flaming, offending and insulting on this thread is you: "Once again I find this thread absolutely pitiful as a pitfall due to the anonymity of the internet and I find all this racist talk just disgusting."
Umm, how about not being "pityful" with us and keep posting? By the way my name's Adonis Tineo-Familia, I am a United States war veteran and I now I live in Florida, there goes my anonimity.
"It's just a game, get over it" , good advice, lol.

 

err, you don't need to be on either to get big. You do realize that in the united states, all professional fighters are tested for all sorts of steroids and other enhancement drugs.

 

Of course we could have:


THough she is not exactly fear enducing...
on a side note, I still do not realize why more people do not get into mma and grappling /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

HAY GUYZ WHAT'S GOING ON IN THIS THREAD


...oh. D:

Maybe pretty pictures will make this flaming trainwreck better! /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif (but probably not)

 

tony good for you and congrats, but you cant deny what this thread as devolved to. On a side note, I wish a topic like racism would hurt and bother you in the future. Then again I cant control what you think.

Shadowdean just look at whats happened to baseball now. Like I said before, none of those MMA fighters are like Vanessa caliber ripped.

 

Hook N SHoot is the major female (professional) mma event in the united states. SmackGirl is the major one in Japan. Now the chicks from Japan generally look nothing like an amazonian woman, but you get some americans and european woman fighting there that are definatly..well, butch. Japan has no laws reguarding steroid use, however.
I have seen some beastly women in hook n shoot though and that is very tightly regulated. One thing you have to keep in mind, is generally speaking, most fighters are not just concerned about their careers but the sport itself in america. It has been an uphill struggle to get this sport legitimized in america (anybody remember John McCain calling MMA barberic in the late ninties...even though boxing is such a gentle sport...). Women have an even harder time getting fights in mma due to the still relatively small amount of competition that exists for it in the states and even abroad. I have SEEN, with my own eyes, women that come very close to Vanessa's old musculature. Its not the norm, but it is definatly not outside of the norm.
Lets keep in mind that this is a video game, so going a little over the top with a character is perfectly acceptable, at least to me.

 

you completely lost me with

Japan has no laws reguarding steroid use, however . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . I have SEEN, with my own eyes, women that come very close to Vanessa's old musculature.

Yes, i've seen women get closer than VF5 vanessa, Joyner Kersee is a great example, but VF4 vanessa is like body builder hormone and drug induced caliber. Josh you're completely agreeing with me that Vanessa is a video game character. This whole muscular build argument was originally set up to counter the thoughts of people who believed that VF4 vanessa is a greater example of african women than VF5 vanessa. The irony is that the existance of VF4 vanessa is much more unlikely than the VF5 vanessa. I would of let the thread die there, but people taking self authoratative action to judge and control how other people should percieve people of darker skin nature should be portrayed without consideration of the HUMAN BEINGS that are merely tossed around like subject matter in this thread, that truly truly pisses me off.

 

PhoenixDth, you perplex me…

I created this thread because I was surprised and intrigued by Sega’s decision to redesign Vanessa Lewis and wanted to know how others felt about the change.

During the thread’s lifespan I and others discussed the creative, social, cultural and commercial stimulus behind Sega’s decision. Some people were indifferent; others preferred the change while others preferred her appearance in Virtua Fighter 4.

And you know what? We managed to tackle difficult yet complex and thought provoking issues without insulting each other.

Imagine that?

I put it to you before; if you had such an issue with the subject matter of the discussion, why comment at all? Why not get on with your life and what ever you do? Yet, you decided to slate the topic, those who participated in the discussion and all this without an ounce of tact or an educated argument.

In fact, if it wasn’t for the coaxing of other posters like Plague, Jerky, tonyfamilia, Shag and Shadowdean, I doubt you would have even contemplated trying to arrange your tirade into something coherent. Those guys have tons of more patience than I do because I had just about given up on there being any further insightful comments on this topic and were quite prepared to let you stroke your self-righteous ego till your hands were sore.

What is it about a forum that you don’t understand? Is it the concept that there are people out in the world who have opinions different to your own? That said people would gather and share their opinions, positive or negative, then present an intelligent argument why they believed what they do?

Mate, if you’re so volatile over an internet debate then I struggle to understand how anyone could have an in-depth talk with you face to face.

Did you read the thread from beginning to end? Really read it, from top to bottom? Did you not read the wealth of opinions, how we all commented on what we felt about the change. Some of us pointed the finger at Sega, others at cultural perceptions or media stereotypes etc. But we all said our piece more or less with respect for the poster before us. Sure, there were some heated replies, but that’s the nature of an interesting conversation on, what I believe, is an interesting topic.

Now look at the thread from where you entered.

Tell me; what was constructive about your first, second, third or even fourth post except for showing others why typing in bold is crass and annoying?

And in later posts where the other posters I commended presented you with arguments within the context of the discussion’s topic, you dismiss them out of hand and proclaim you know better. What, just because?

So let’s get this right: You hate this thread, yet you participate in it. People humour you, presenting you with their opinions and go out of their way to coax your own yet you don’t give them the same courtesy?!

This thread has been damaged already. What else do you want? Hell, why do you bother? Really, why?

Even as I type this I’m annoyed with myself that I’m even pandering to you. Still, I stand by the creation of this discussion and the opinions of the posters who were kind and insightful enough to contribute.

 

You've maintained composure its obvious anyone can see. But your actions dont speak for everyone in this thread. Again Im saying im disgusted with people treating human beings as subject matter without the right to do so. Have you noticed at all the absurdity of some of the comments posted here, how disregardful people are of other peoples ethnicity. Sure the conversations here maybe intellegent, but the concept of the subject matter you're dealing with is ludacris. Yes you ask why should I comment at all when I have a problem with this, because it is a race issue. Obviously people have problems with VF5 vanessa clashing with their own idealized caricartures of what an African Woman Fighter should look like. Some people have an idealized caricarture of VF4 vanessa - some people "enjoy" VF5 Vanessa. The fact that you guys have an idealized caricarture of ethnicities at all and for it to bother you enough to create a topic speaks bounds about how racism is still affecting this world. If people did not have a predefined view of WHAT someone should look like, a topic like this should not exist at all. Thats why i still stand by original comment of this topic being useless.