Unevadable Meaty's Juggle Potential

Could you tell me in detail your experiment (position on the ring, cpu' settings, setup for the meaty + the juggle)?

If the 2 hits are a natural combo then the limit should kick in the same.
Kage's is a 2 hit launcher (natural combo) and it's affected by the limit

Kage vs Sarah

- Kage's back at the wall, set the cpu to defensive move towards Kage's belly and exact recovery in place or on both sides
- > > > ! > > > > !
- the last whiffs

 

Youre right, I can confirm this. I guess I never really came across this because 4K+G is Jackys weakest launcher and generally doesn't have as complicated combos as the others.. But I guess this "protection" is real.

 

G0d3L,

yes, there's a way to get it to work but there is still a situation where 2P+K won't cause the LB when it should. It's different from other combos because nothing whiffs but it's still a sort of protection from being MaxDamage'd, thought it was worth posting since thread's title is about the potential (which is reduced here).

By the way, another example for Jacky. Ok, Jacky's opponents have that protection but I don't feel those example after a Wall Slump the right way to tell it because you don't use it in a match, I know it was just a test to prove it but still.

Go in Dojo, Jacky vs. Lion, Snow Mountain, Reaction: CH, Fall Recovery: Side roll/front or back. Use 1PK to knock Lion down then
P+K+GP -> 6_P -> 6_KG -> 1P+KPP (Wall Hit) -> 6K+G.
6K+G won't connect, it normally does.

 

There's not any type of meaty protection.
There's plenty in the game of this situation where high/low bounds work/don't work due to frames/distances/weight/walls/etc

@Manji
As I already explained here it depends on when 4K+G connects (it influences the opponent's height at which 2P+K will connect later).

Thanks for the combos.
As I said mine were scrubby (don't know too much combos outside of a few charachters) and this is the reason for asking you guys to post your own setups.
I picked up Jacky only to look in detail at the scenario you posted before and then being
there I tried to answer myself to my question.

However a combo is always a combo and not being used in a match dosen't make it less valid for the experiment's purpose

 

That would be because Kage 3P knocks down on first hit while I'm using a move that launches on the second hit (Goh 3K,P). Like I said, first hit meaty, second hit launch. The juggle afterwards was vs Jacky 46P, 2P, 46P+K,(delay)P,6P.

You should get similar results if you tried meaties with Jeff 3PP, Taka 4P+K,P, Lei 33PP, Sarah 2P+K,K etc.

 

How do you setup the 3K meaty?

EDIT
I did a meaty setup with Kage's 3KK (natural combo) on mid walls that leads to juggle that dosen't end after 6 hits.
So it seems the limits kicks in only if the meaty hit causes the juggle state (airborne, crumple, etc).

@Combolammas
Thanks for the heads up
I still need to know how do you setup Goh's 3K meaty

 

By timing it as one?

It staggers on CH or crouch hit so I just set a sidetech and no guard (in which case the dummy recovers crouching).

 

Sorry for taking so log before answerig you.
Now that I know exactly how this thing works I don't need anymore this information but just to make it clear by "how do you set it up" I mean the exact sequence of what you do to get:

1) the kockdown (the move/s you use to get the specific knockdown)
2) to time your meaty (i.e. whiff something)
3) how the opponent as to recover (i.e. in place/side roll)
4) which move you use as a meaty (in your case 3KP)



Now that is clear how it works I'll edit the first post to add at the very beginning the whole explanation

 

For the test it works just fine with any knockdown or combo into tech situation. Set opponent to side techroll and reaction to normal. With this setup the opponent recovers crouching after their tech and gets staggered by 3K meaty. I'd also like to point out that there's nothing really special about that combo for this test anyway, since it only has 5 aerial hits.

I'd figure if you want to really test the 2 hit meaty thingy then Sarah vs Eileen and meaty 2P+K would be an easy way to get over 6 hit juggles.

 

Oh, nice thread, scru...G0d3L !
I tested it with Aoi, and the limit works too, then I thought about Sarah... and it seems that her meaty 2P+KK isn't affected, I even got 8 hits combos.

This is my test:

Dojo, whatever stage
Sarah vs Eileen, start with close stance
Reaction: Defensive Move 1
Fall recovery: side roll back exact

First combo ( do K~G first to make Eileen fail evade ):
2P+KK, 1K+GK, P, 3KK
then dash for an another 2P+KK meaty
I could get the full combo:
2P+KK, P, 6K+G, P, 66K+G 8 hits ( the last move is the air hit throw consisted of 3 hits, and works only in open stance, so after the first combo, ending with 3KK make you switch stance position )
Without the air hit throw, the combo can be 7 hits: 2P+KK, P, 6K+G, P, 3KK

 

Those 2 don't actually pass the 6 hit limit since it's about aerial hits.
First one has 4 aerial hits (not counting the 2 extra ones from air-hittrow, of course that's not affected, she's in throw animation)
The second one has 5 aerial hits.

I've not played Sarah in FS so I don't really know a lot of her combopotential but I'd figure with a wall you could do P W!, 4K+G into a wall combo. At least I understood that the limit is unaffected whether you hit walls or not.

With all the testing going on I'm not surprised this hasn't been discovered earlier. Not too many characters actually do more than 6 aerial hits in juggles. Those 2 hit launches that I'd figure are unaffected rarely have more than 6 so if you have a good meaty launcher just go with whatever makes for the best (easiest) meaty in the situation .

Also, I'm wondering if this thing stacks with the techable juggle limit? If you do a meaty launch (1 hit) then do 6 hits and they don't tech can you OTG them anymore? Or 5 hits into some 2 hit OTG. I'll have to look this up a bit. It's nice to know how to maximize damage on people not teching.

 

I don't understand, then what about your Goh's combo on Jacky ?
3KP, 46P, 2P, 46P+K,(delay)P,6P.

I thought that we were talking about 2-hits juggle starter what are not affected by the limits, so I wanted to confirm that.

Also I tested with Eileen 9P and I could do 9P, PP214PP214K+G which means 6 aerial hits.

Eileen vs Eileen ( close stance )
Defensive Move 1
Sideroll back exact
K~G ( to cause failed evade from the dummy ) then 46K+G, 6P+KPP dash for
meaty 9P, PP214PP214K+G.
A little tricky to do since you can get the heavy pounce attack with 9P.

 

The thing was that you can't go past 6 aerial hits with a meaty launch. When I noted that it doesn't affect 2 hit launches I hadn't taken into account the fact that it means aerial hits only (well, it still doesn't affect Goh since he never goes past that).

I'd still wager that it does not affect 2 hit launches. I don't see anyway the system could go through that. The point is you can't do a meaty launch that does more than 6 aerial hits.
And my theory (which it is since I realized I didn't prove it) is that 2 hit launches go around this limit by not actually launching with the meaty but the next hit.

 

Ok, so which means that with Sarah, I can add more hits after the meaty 2P+KK if I can extend the combo with wall bounce etc ? ( for example like you suggested, 2P+KK, P, then 4K+G wall bounce from that).
Anyway, I don't see any character in the game that can do more than 6 aerial hits after a 2 hit launcher ( meaty or not )...

 

Thanks a lot Kingof43Pspam

I'm confused.
What do you mean with "aerial hits"?
The limit it's not about "aerial hits" but just hits.
Doesn't matter if the meaty (single hit) knocks the opponent in the air or crumples him: the total amount of hits cannot exceed 6 launcher/"crumpler" included.

I said in a previous post that I found some Kage's combos off "second hit launcher" meaty that go over the 6 hits limit but never posted them.

With Kage's BT K+G and 3KK (both natural combo, first hit leaves opponent grounded while second one launches) I was able to get up to 13 hits juggles (including BT K+G/3KK) using mid walls:

BT K+G/3KK (meaty) > soft wall hit > K+G > 33P/2P+K > 9K+G > PP4PK > 46K+GK!K > 3K+G


Instead with high walls I got 12 hits (on light weights):

BT K+G (meaty) > 66 > P > 66P+K > 66 > 2P > 46K+GK!K > Wall Slump > 46K+GK!K > 3K+G

Didn't have the time to post it yet.
After a meaty launcher (single hit) you have:

number of hits of the juggle + number of OTG hits <= 6



Made also an other test to see if the limit change/disappear if no walls or bound are used.
I came up with this combo on Eileen which has 7 hits without using bounds or walls (and it makes more damage )

236K+G (second level of charge) > P > 2P+K > P > 46K+GK!K

When setting it up 236K+G (second level of charge) as a meaty the lasat kicks of the dragon kicks does not connect (it goes through Eileen's body) making the juggle end after the 6th hit.
This "proves" that walls and bounds do not influence the limit.

Yes noob

 

Does a ground throw count in the case of that 6 hits limits ?
I was able to do a wall combo after Aoi's 46P+K meaty, and it always stop at 6 hits, but I could ground throw them for a 7th hit, that's the only thing what works. The example I use is:

Aoi vs Aoi
El Blaze stage
dummy: defensive move 1, recovery : side roll exact.

Sweep 2K+G, dash 46P+K meaty ( opponent back to wall )> 2KP > KPK.
I can't add a 3K (what would normally works as a OTG) because of the 6 hits limit, but I can ground throw, for a total of 7 hits.

Also, I found out Shun's 236PP what is a 2 hits launcher has that 6 hits limit.

Shun needs 8 drinks
Shun vs Eileen
El Blaze stage
dummy: defensive move 1, side roll exact

2K+GKK, dash 236PP > P > 46PPPP+K the last hits whiffs
2K+GKK, dash 236PP > P > 43P+K ( wall slump ) > 43P+KP then an other 43P+K whiffs completely.

I guess that it's because the first move of the 2 hits starter launches differently in the case of a crouching opponent. Like Kage's 3PP

 

Nope, the same as ground attacks.

that launcher has the first hit that put the opponent in a juggle state (in this case in the air) like Kage's 3PP so that's the reason for the presence of the limit

 

d'oh, sorry. Don't know why at some point I've twisted this in my mind thinking it's just about aerial hits. Probably because of the testing of the techable juggle limit later which just starts after they hit the ground not counting your KND move.