Understanding Nitaku - on behalf of n00bs

Well, within that same part of the book, it talks about TEG using the input buffer for TEG, but it doesn't go into detail about the conditions of it.

Ok, Akai's explanation made it clear now why it was so inconsistent at small disadvantage. It makes complete sense after I mapped out the frames. This makes it clear as well why ETEG gives you a much bigger window for throw escapes compared to ETEG (you get the full 10+11 frames window for TE's).

Sorry for doubting you guys, but TEG at anything below -8 just seems too impractical to use. I'll give it a try next time at the arcades to see how it goes.

 

Yeah, this happens to me nearly everytime I try to do TE but fail.. I forget to delay my TE until the buffer window. Thanks Akai for explanation.

 

I mapped it out in-case people care to see...

This is probably why when Myke said that 10 frame window always exists I didn't really believe it, cause that 10 frame window is not for TE, it's only the input buffer which ultimately limits your effective TE window. So it's misleading to think that there is always a 10 frame window for TE's.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Code:</div><div class="ubbcode-body ubbcode-pre" style="height: 150px;"><pre>

Legend:

* = Recovery frames (no action/input is possible)
- = Throw execution frames
# = Throw active/detection frames
@ = Idle frames

-12 Situation for 1P

Frames 67890123456789012345678901234567890
1P Frame *****************@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
2P Frame *****-----------##@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
TE Window $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
1P Input Buffer &&&&&&&&&&
[!!!!!!!!!]

Effective TE window = 9 frames


-8 Situation for 1P

Frames 67890123456789012345678901234567890
1P Frame *************@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
2P Frame *****-----------##@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
TE Window $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
1P Input Buffer &&&&&&&&&&
[!!!!!!]

Effective TE window = 6 frames


-5 Situation for 1P

Frames 67890123456789012345678901234567890
1P Frame **********@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
2P Frame *****-----------##@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
TE Window $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
1P Input Buffer &&&&&&&&&&
[!!!]

Effective TE window = 3 frames
</pre></div></div>

Conclusion: TEG is possible at non throw guaranteed situation like what KoD, Myke, Akai and others said. The less the recovery, the smaller effective window you have for TEG.

 

Nice! Thanks, Srider, I already had the idea but seeing a map of it is even better.
Nooooob Powwwaaaaaaaa!

 

So basically the TE window is:
1 - as long as the recovery time (and no more) if the recovery time is 10 frames or less
2 - only the last ten frames of the recovery time if the recovery time is more than 10 frames

Plus 11 frames in each case, which is when you can still TE even if the throw is already happening.

Sounds good...

 

Is that because no move as a recovery time of less than 10 seconds?
So basically my point #1 in my previous post doesn't really exist?

 

No its about that you can only successfully input TEG when the throw escape window (when TEs register) overlap with buffer window (when your inputs register). And on top of that it needs to be within recovery so that the guard registers in time and no whiffed throw comes out. (If you do throw command in neutral situation, the game assumes you are trying to do a throw..It cannot discriminate between throw-escape and a throw attempt.. in TEG and ETEG you cancel the throwattempt with guard before the throw-attempt can initiate. But the inputs still count as throwescapes if they are within TE window)

I used slightly wrong wording in my previous post..I didnt mean buffer window but the window when TEG works.

Using a ETEG is easier because you get lot longer window within which to press guard... although in theory and often practise failed evade is just about as bad. And something that people dont realize is that the actual throwescape window isnt as long as the whole failed evade animation, although it is longer than in TEG case (throwescapes after recovery is over still count in ETEG case cause you can press guard later)...

In non-ETEG case you can input throw escapes after the recovery, which would allow you to escape possible throws, but then you wouldnt be able to guard so a whiffed throw would come out if opponent wouldnt do the throw.. (or it wouldnt whiff...which would be pretty embarrassing heh)

Damn...at this rate Im gonna get confused myself!

 

I understand although, this one time, I did mean simply TE and not TEG.
And, yes, I am trying to confuse anyone more expert than me...

bwawawa

 

Yes, the fastest recovering move in the game (backturned P) still has 12 recovery frames (not seconds).

 

12 SECONDS?!?!?!? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

 

Oh come on, I was writing in haste!