Understanding Nitaku - on behalf of n00bs

I know this is starting to get a little OT but I think it's still valuable stuff.

What do you do against Fuzzy guard other than a delayed throw. I say other than that because when I've tried to delay my throws I almost always end up getting hit so I must be delaying too long. I've found OM then throw to be a good way to force a delay into my rythem and if I do it when I have at least +1 I will avoid a throw.

 

http://virtuafighter.com/wiki/doku.php?id=vf5:system_part_2#advantage_and_disadvantage

there are lots of errors, but it certainly mentions nitaku.

The throw sections explain why high throws dont work during execution frames of an attack or when an opponent is crouching, and the hit levels section explain that most low attacks enter crouching state on the first execution frame. There is an explanation of throw escape, evade throw escape, and throw escape guard in the throw section, although it ought to be covered in "defense" as well.

I'd like to see your notes on what needs to be fixed in the wiki.

 

Um..... I don't think there is such a thing as throw escape guard....

KoD: Maybe you mean Attack throw escape? If you input throw escape without first inputting evade, throw animation will occur, unless you happen to be escaping a throw.

Also, at -6 or -7, you have to do a 11 or 10 frame punch to beat the clash. Unlike what chef_frash said, guarding in this case will not result in 0 frame throw. A non delay throw attempt at +6 or +7 will be a grip animation throw, thus making it clashable (except against 11 frame punch or faster).

It's also not a good idea to think that you shouldn't apply nitaku guessing when you are at +6 due to the possibility of the opponent crouch dashing cause fuzzy guarding is something that people can easily mess up in this case.

 

No, I definitely mean throw escape guard. Go to dojo, set the cpu to mid or throw, do a move that leaves you at e.g. -8. Towards the end of your recovery, tap P+G and leave G held down. If the cpu did a throw, your throw escape is during the window, so you will escape it. If the CPU did a mid, you were guarding once your recovery finished, so the throw escape did not come out as a throw animation whiff, and you will guard the attack.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A non delay throw attempt at +6 or +7 will be a grip animation throw, thus making it clashable (except against 11 frame punch or faster).</div></div>

Or crouching low attacks, or some jumping attacks, or some recovering backturned attacks, or random attacks that sega thought shouldn't clash, etc etc.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's also not a good idea to think that you shouldn't apply nitaku guessing when you are at +6 due to the possibility of the opponent crouch dashing cause fuzzy guarding is something that people can easily mess up in this case.
</div></div>

At +6 against a fuzzy guard you should also be able to apply a guess between standing throw and either PK (for fast P) or dP (for 12f P). This is vulnerable to low or jumping attacks, respectively, but will not be beaten by fuzzy guard.

Pick jeff or wolf and low throw them for 1/3 of their lifebar.

 

you basically just reiterated what srider said buddy. but what srider was trying to say is that IF you DONT input ANYTHING FIRST, then your throw animation will come out if you input throw escapes. like if you are just standing still and input throw escapes, there's nothing stopping the throw animation from coming out.

in other words, to clear any confusion, TEG or ETEG must be inputted at the duration of an animation such as an attack or evade or after being hit by an attack.

 

Doesn't TEG exist and work well at -12 or worse? I could see not trying it at -7 to -11 as better options exist (ETEG or, say, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif).

 

yeah TEG exist at -12 or worse.... but in VF5 -12 is /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif counterable for everyone so......

TEG definitely does not work at -7 or -8 (tried it in Dojo maybe I just suck), maybe it works at -11 against heavies? I don't know...

 

spot on mate! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

I often do Multiple TE after having -12 and worse guarded. I never tack on the G. Local players know this. I get launched.

 

^ memo memo .../(._. )

Taking notes for March. Might want to watch what you type here. Bu, ha, ha..

EDIT: For fair game purposes, I lose to throws. You can win for free if you just throw the whole match. I'm only partially kidding.

 

Yep yep! But, like Myke mentioned, timing for TEG is really strict in small disadvantage, and the real downer is that if you miss the guard window you are screwed with whiffed throw and free counter/combo opportunity for opponent. Idea of few frames input throw escape guard is academical at best, as you can always fuzzy at small disadvantages and I guarantee it is much easier.. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif (and protects from all standing throws as opposed to throw escape of just one)

 

Where is this info from Myke? Cause I also remember 1/60 talking about the TE buffering window not being available until the end of the recovery. So your point A doesn't make much sense. It certainly didn't work this way before VF5.

I also remember (at least in evo/ft) that the game automatically makes your character throw whiff if you enter more than 2 TE's no matter how fast you do it at -8 (in evo/ft).

Not sure how these have changed in VF5, so if there's a source for this info please provide, as I can't consistently do TEG at -7 in dojo (could just be my bad timing).

 

I just tried TEG after blocked DE (-5), and while Im not confident enough with it to try in a match, I can get it consistently enough to know its there. With neutral P+G escape it feels a fair bit like doing Akiras knee with P and G though... Timing is really tough. And the window gets really short to the end of recovery...but whiffed throw still doesnt come out and I can escape the throw/mid mixup.. I honestly havent got a clue about the frames involved but I vouch that it works.

I dont know about multiple throwescapes and G though.. I might try that later..

(this issue is pretty academical in nature..)

To the interested beginners: just do fuzzy guard like good boys, nvm this... move along... shoo

Edit:

Lulz

 

I too remember in evo there was actually in the dojo section a part on Throw Escape Guard. It had it's own session if anyone still has that around I recommend maybe going back to what the game said to do. The timing just feels a lot more strict now due to the small speed increase overall of the game.

 

That has to happen towards the end of the recovery, though, isn't it? I must have read in the guide that the command buffe rin the game is 10 frames so I guess the throw escape must happen in the last 10 frame sof your recovery?

 

So if recovery is shorter than 10 frames, then the input buffer is only as long as the recovery? And if the recovery is longer, you still only have the 10 frame window near the end of recovery to buffer the escapes.

(On an unrelated issue, I think the buffer window works exactly the same way when buffering moves in combos)

Hmm, if the throw isnt 0-frame, isnt there time during the grab animation to still register throwescapes? (not guard) That would make sense to me but I dont know for sure.