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Tutorial Video: Escaping Side Throws

Discussion in 'Dojo' started by Leonard_McCoy, Jun 12, 2009.

  1. Leonard_McCoy

    Leonard_McCoy Well-Known Member

    <object width="480" height="295"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/KF7Oi2l8q1E"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/KF7Oi2l8q1E" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="480" height="295"> </embed></object>

    I've made some amendments to the video. It was neither my nor Sal's intention to step on anybody's toes. After all, I did the video editing and didn't do a screening for Sal before publishing the video. So the blame is on me [​IMG].

    "The wiki is wrong" is a kind of insider joke between Sal and me - and in that video referred to that wiki entry alone in a humorous way (well, not so humorous, as people kind of felt dizzed).

    Jokes aside: after I read Myke's explanation, I kind of can sense what he meant. But the fact that graphical notation (those with icons) was used makes it even more confusing. Unlike Akai said, graphical notation is side-depended (1P != 2P, see VF5) , as it goes back to numerical transcription (6_P+K, etc).

    Let me reply individually to the replies that came up:

    The purpose of the video was not to show that the wiki was wrong, but to offer an audience as wide as possible easy-to-follow in-sights into escaping side throws.

    Neither Sal nor me knew about that, nor can we speak nor read Japanese. Looking at the date of your post (June 6th), I gotta conclude that we made the match recording way before that. It's only in the last few days that I could get around to finally putting the video together.

    We tested that, too - unfortunately, didn't think about capturing and adding it to the video. From what sal and me remember those special side-throws didn't affect our rule. We only tested it with Jeffry, though.
     
  2. akai

    akai Moderator Staff Member Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    Akai_JC
    XBL:
    Akai JC
    Likewise, joking aside, I think we all agree the wiki entry can be made more coherent. What Erdraug revised so far, is moving in the right direction.

    I am confused with what your wrote here. I think we both agreed the confusion with the wiki entry was the use of the arrows. Before there was such things as fighting games, arrows were used as a notation for left and right direction (do a google search [​IMG] ).

    You don't need to make a video. Jeffry's side throw escapes info in his command list was most likely copied incorrectly. What I wrote earlier was wrong. My bad. I will edit his command list after getting this side throw escape explanation to be understandable.

    Edit: As for the japanese video on side throw escape...it was actually posted on VFDC in the beginning of May by Libertine:
    Side Throw Video Post (you posted right after his post). The japanese video also was made in February. Either way, I take your word you were not aware of it or understood it. Your youtube video was done exceptionally well and helpful, so thanks for putting the effort to making it.
     
  3. Leonard_McCoy

    Leonard_McCoy Well-Known Member

    Now that's actually amusing ... lol
     
  4. The_Shunjinkogh

    The_Shunjinkogh Well-Known Member

    I needed this so much!
    Gracias!
     
  5. SUGATA

    SUGATA Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    SUGATA_RUS
    Good video!

    But: are you sure that here is not possible to multiple side throw-escaping, and like down throw escapes is possible to input only one side TE ( i.e. 50%/50% if not performing visual checking your character's side position to opponent)?
     
  6. Feck

    Feck Well-Known Member Content Manager Akira

    I'm pretty sure he's sure [​IMG]

    Like it said in the vid, you have to choose one.
     
  7. Leonard_McCoy

    Leonard_McCoy Well-Known Member

    Just one more time? [​IMG]

    This is old news, actually. As with ground throws, you can only get one side-throw escape successfully registered. Or could you pull off multiple STE at a time?
     
  8. Gernburgs

    Gernburgs Well-Known Member

    Can you multiple Side TE against a Wolf DMPK???

    If Wolf DMPKs and gets to your side, can you double side TE that particular move?
     
  9. Feck

    Feck Well-Known Member Content Manager Akira

    Yeah you can do multi TE for that, that's the only case where you can use multi TE on side throws though.

    This stuff has already been said in at least ten threads, you guys need to pay attention [​IMG]
     
  10. Terra

    Terra Well-Known Member

    I'd recomend putting the "can't multi escape" in big bold letters.
     
  11. Chief_Flash

    Chief_Flash Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    T1L ALL AR3 0N3
    good shit leonard! [​IMG]
     
  12. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    I've updated the Side Throw Escapes section in the wiki. It provides a more detailed explanation than previously and hopefully the diagrams make things less confusing.

    There are tips at the end of the section for successful Side Throw Escaping, as well as a link to Leonard's video.
     
  13. akai

    akai Moderator Staff Member Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    Akai_JC
    XBL:
    Akai JC
    Edit: wrong information in this post, ignore this post.
    Nice diagrams...was that why you were looking for those pdfs? [​IMG]

    For the tip2: flip flop section, is this another helpful tip for people that have trouble understanding left and right arrows? -

    Side throw from an opponent that moved to the foreground relative to your character's position - escape with back [P]+[G]

    Side throw from an opponent that moved to the background relative to your character - escape with forward [P]+[G]

    Edit: wrong information in this post, ignore this post.
     
  14. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    Yep!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For the tip2: flip flop section, is this another helpful tip for people that have trouble understanding left and right arrows? -

    Side throw from an opponent that moved to the foreground relative to your character's position - escape with back [P]+[G]

    Side throw from an opponent that moved to the background relative to your character - escape with forward [P]+[G]</div></div>
    I think this fails for Player 2?

    If Player 1 moves to the foreground and attempts a side throw on Player 2, then Player 2 would need to escape with "left" or "forward" [P][+][G], and not "back" [P][+][G] as you suggest above.
     
  15. akai

    akai Moderator Staff Member Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    Akai_JC
    XBL:
    Akai JC
    Myke, my bad, it should be switched...to this wording...

    ---
    Side throw from an opponent that moved to the foreground relative to your character's position - escape with forward [P]+[G]

    Side throw from an opponent that moved to the background relative to your character - escape with back [P]+[G]
    ---

    So if you are the 1p side:
    1) opponent moved to the foreground
    2) opponent is on the right side of your character
    3) escape with right[P]+[G] or escape with forward [P]+[G]

    And if you are on the 2p side:
    1) opponent moved to the foreground
    2) opponent is on the left side of your character
    3) escape with left[P]+[G] or escape with forward [P]+[G]

    ---

    Edit: or maybe this is still very confusing wording and should just be left out.
     
  16. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    That makes sense now. I haven't finished fleshing out "Case 1: Opponent Changed Position" but when I do, I'll be sure to include this tip. Thanks!
     
  17. Feck

    Feck Well-Known Member Content Manager Akira

    Not being funny but aren't all command lists and explanations for fighting games written as if you're on the P1 side?

    I think we're overcomplicating the side throw explanation, the description of the situation for a person playing on P1 side with forward and back should do [​IMG]
     
  18. akai

    akai Moderator Staff Member Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    Akai_JC
    XBL:
    Akai JC
    Actually, if you look at in-game command lists (at least some of them), I am quite sure players on 2P side have the command notations switch.

    I think the left and right arrow has been used for side throw escapes for a while now in VF. It is also how it is written in many of the Japanese strategy books from my experience (in which the VFDC command lists are based off of).

    Yeah, side throw explanation is complicated because people have trouble telling what is the right side or left side of your character within the video game.

    Using forward and back does not give the simplest explanation. It is great for actual application though, but does not cover all side throw escape situations...I think...
     
  19. Feck

    Feck Well-Known Member Content Manager Akira

    The way you wrote it out earlier is probably best then Akai, it explains it well and will be more helpful to people new to fighting games or VF.

    I've only ever seen command lists wrote as if the player is on P1 side so i'm used to switching them if i'm on P2, this probably isn't same for new players and like you said side throw escapes are more complicated than that.
     
  20. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    The simplest explanation is, as it has always been: left side throws are escaped with the "left" direction (and similarly for the right side).

    As soon as you introduce command notation, be it numerical or graphical, then things can get confusing because notation was always in reference to 1P side. This is where the wiki was confusing some people, hence the update.

    So telling someone to memorise forward for one scenario, but backward for another scenario might be all well and good, but it doesn't explain why it's forward or backward. Some people like to understand the why, and that's determined by the character's left or right side being thrown.

    I'm hopeful that providing all the details isn't necessarily overcomplicating things. In the end, I want you come away with one or two rules of thumb that work for any scenario.
     

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