Tier List?

Dang, someone go tell Fuudo he's gotta stop winning these tournaments because his character is D-ranked...

 

Everywhere on the internet, VF fans are always constantly spamming the tier-free thing.

And any char can win in MvC2/Tekken1-5.

 

I mean this in a joking manner but... You just lost all credibility you could have possibly had with that comment lol.

 

Okay, we get two really really good players of equal skill in Tekken 5, one plays Kuma and one plays Steve. They both use all of their abilities to their maximum potential (this is the key) for a 100 games... what are the scores? 50-50?

 

After playing the game for a couple weeks, I have come to the conclusion that the above is pretty accurate, although I would condense the tiers a bit. Disclaimer: This is one man's view with only minor competitive experience, VF5 clips, and messing around with the AI/Dojo. To me the tiers are

1 - Shun
2 - Pai, Vanessa, Eileen, Kage, Lei Fei, Brad, Wolf, Lau, Jacky, Akira, Goh, Lion
3 - Sarah, Aoi, Jeffry, El Blaze

I think Sarah is just too hard to play. She has a lot of options in Flamingo, but they are too context-specific in the sense that she doesn't have those 1 or 2 moves that are all- powerful and which she can rely on (e.g. Kage's SH /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif and SH /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif). Instead, she has a bunch of moves that are great for certain situations, and that makes her really hard to play. I think she can be really good if you specialize deeply into her, but for most players it's going to be tough. Kudos to any Sarah players out there.

I don't understand why Aoi's punch is 12 frames. I think the reason why they weakened some of her 2-hit strings is because she can now 0-frame throw out of her G-cancels, which makes her dangerous. But still, overall, I find her very hard to play with. Her back turned stuff could have been strengthened; as is her BT moves are mostly gimmicks.

I have already voiced why I think Jeffry's design is messed up this time around (or at least, I can't really figure it out). They really, really, should not have gotten rid of his VF4 /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif bottle chop. Jeffry's VF5 /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif is just too slow to be a suitable replacement. If they sped /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif up to say, 17 or 18 frames he would be much better. Even then I would still prefer the bottle chop; it's not as though he'd be too good if he had it back!

I don't know much about El Blaze -- following Enterbrain's lead there. AM2 probably shouldn't have weakened his Rocket Discharge from Revision 1 to Version A though.

As for Shun...his rainbow sabaki and SOU options are just too good. They should make that rainbow sabaki (before the canned punch follow-up) at least -7 on block. Leaving Shun at +0 is too much. Also, the fact that his canned punch after the sabaki is only -11 means that Wolf, Jeffry, and Aoi are going to have a major headaches playing against him.

One system thing I wish AM2 would change is that no moves would recover at -10 or -11. I think it just makes too much of a match-up difference depending on your character's punch speed. There are a lot of moves that recover at -11 and this makes Jeffry and Aoi, who I already think are low tier, too disadvantaged.

On a side note to the Enterbrain tier list posted...I had also flipped through the magazine at someone's house (Ryan's I think). Basically the way they came up with the rankings (AFAIK) is that each character got rated by two top-tier Japanese players. These scores were then compiled to get the ranking. It's a wonky method that's wide open to subjectivity (e.g. Ohsu's 8/10 could mean something very different to Koedo's 8/10), but the results seem about right.

 

hmm sarah not that hard to use to me. Her flamingo stance serves a great threat since she cal deal with almost any situation. Then again you talking to a person who played alot of fighting games and can see an advantage in all characters. I might do an advantage and disadvantage thread later maybe. Sarah disadvantage would probably be close range since she lacks quick moves but her legs are her advantage.(Yes they are umm sexy but more than that ) She has alot of range with her legs so she can own ppl from long range.

Even ppl like jeffry got an advantage. Jeffry is big and slow but his size is also an advantage since some combos u cant do on him. I got a whole strategy on how to use big characters its really not that hard.

 

You play people and have no problem with Sarah? OMG, we should bow to you.

Look at her damage nerfs, then compare to the rest of the cast.


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Even ppl like jeffry got an advantage. Jeffry is big and slow but his size is also an advantage since some combos u cant do on him. I got a whole strategy on how to use big characters its really not that hard. </div></div>

Nice point. Jeffry has to take risks, and when launched he doesn't take as much damage. Fuckin' brilliant!
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I'm sorry, but your idea of "advantage" is quite... meh. I mean "Jeffry is top tier cuz has unblockable!!! I land it all the tyme on my friends!!!"

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Sorry for being a dick, but look at the frames.

 

in before shang

 

Sarah seems really good safe and speed wise. She is less damaging but less noob friendly.

 

Don't get me wrong, she's not useless...you can win with Sarah by sole virtue of her quick mids, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif (they're weakened but they're still really good moves). But I think it's harder to win with her than before.

 

I know the game's been out in Japan (and in arcades) for a while, but I dunno.. it just seems hasty to me to put up tier lists already. Which is not necessarily to say that the findings are wrong (alas, poor Jeff, always at the bottom of the barrel!), but I'd wait at least a little while (and a few tournaments) longer.

 

I don't know, Sarah feels definately different.

She doesn't do much damage so most of the time I use her new gimick moves to surprise people in TR and wake up situations.

FL is really strong in this game imo but it still has it's problems. You can still beat it real bad with a well checked evade or duck.

Though, when you get on a roll with FL it really gets into people cause you can really mess with people. But it doesn't reward nearly as much damage as non-FL combo-tacular Sarah does.

 

I don't play tekken so i can't comment on that.But I can say, any character CAN NOT win IN marvel vs capcom 2.

 

After playing around some more, I realize that my initial thought of Sarah's Flamingo being emphasized over her normal stance is incorrect. It's true that she has more options getting in and while in Flamingo, but actually, her normal attacks have also been significantly strengthened! I think we've allowed complaints from certain people about her /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif getting weakened to cloud our judgement about her other strengths /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif -- namely her new long distance kicks in /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif which is a powerful counter tool, the fact that /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif is now as good as her brother's (in some ways better since she can cancel it), etc.

In fact, I'm inclined to move Sarah back up a tier. I'd say it's

1 - Shun
2 - Pai, Vanessa, Eileen, Kage, Lei Fei, Brad, Wolf, Lau, Jacky, Akira, Goh, Lion, Sarah
3 - Aoi, Jeffry, El Blaze

Note that these tiers don't really matter for most of us reading these forums--they really only matter at the highest levels. The tier gap is so small that you can easily win with Aoi, Jeffry, or El Blaze. In fact just the other night my newbie El Blaze defeated a veteran Shun, Eileen and Vanessa from the Norcal crew, so...don't let these tiers influence which characters you choose to learn. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

 

Uh dude, he didn't say anything about equal skill, he was talking about matches against his retarded friend who has no fingers or toes and mashes the buttons with his forehead. Against him even my mother could win with Kuma... After a few tries.

 

Cool -- thanks for the analysis, very interesting! I'm surprised to see that, with the huge number of Jacky and Kage players, there is still a net positive percentage that advance. Perhaps that's because all the hardcore veteran players play them?

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I've been playing El Blaze a lot recently, and after studying El Blaze I've come to the conclusion that the guy is not low tier. He's not the best but he's definitely good enough to win. I've also recently come to the conclusion that Shun isn't as godly as I initially thought; I had confused weirdness for power. So my new new modification of the Enterbrain tier list is the following:

1 - Shun, Pai, Vanessa, Eileen, Kage, Lei Fei, Brad, Wolf, Lau, Jacky, Akira, Goh, Lion, El Blaze, Sarah
2 - Aoi, Jeffry

I have to say AM2 did a pretty good job balancing this game despite my initial perception otherwise.

 

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2 - Aoi, Jeffry
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YEAH!!!! Those two... in a tier of their own! Why? They're awesome.

 

Who said anything about Jeffry hate?

 

Aoi and Jeffry at the #2 low tiers?

"Alas, poor Jeffry's always at the bottom of the barrel?

I've seen a lot of effective Jeff tactics including a few juggles with his air throw. I don't know how to do them because I don't play him really, but the ratio seems pretty good out here for him as of late.

I realize in some cases people are noting off of tourneys and such, but I haven't seen those. Of the matches I've played, I haven't seen too much obvious reason for Jeffry to be lowest tier.

Deleted earlier post cause it was essentially flamebait.