The Way Shun Di Should Be Played

Sorry man -- that's the way Shun is. If you want an unstoppable force, or someone with a flowing offenseive, use Jacky or Lau. Shun is for concentrating and playing off your opponent.

One thing to notice, that I *NEVER* did until my Shun's Arcade record was like 500 wins / 400 losses, was go for the . It hits high, but if you've got 8 drinks, then you get a nice in after it.

Here, try these. Here's some half decent flow charts;
(float)
+++


After 6 drinks
+ (your opponent is expcting and is likely ducking)

After 8 drinks
+
+

Depending on your opponents skill after 8 drinks:

 

i think shun compared to some of the other characters is definitely underpowered, esp in version c. i just recently saw some of the stuff he's capable of in ver B, after which i thought he'd been raped in ver C (damage-wise, guaranteed stuff, etc). my primary goal during most of my matches is to get to 10 dps first. unless i can reach the 10 dp mark, i always feel my shun is underpowered. after he reaches 10 dp though, i start taking a lot more risks and often dont mind doing moves which take away dps as well, as long as i can stay over 10 dps. learning to use this stuff is vital to playing shun effectively IMO. like if you train your opponent to expect d/b+k,k's all the time, next time you could just cut it short at the first d/b+k and go to face down feet towards position with a g-cancel. from this position if you can get his medium rising attack to hit (sort of looks like his mule kick), a u+p pounce is guaranteed afterwards so it opens up some nice possibilities.

GaijinPunch: the d/f+p,p after b+p hits isn't guaranteed is it??? i was pretty sure it wasn't, in version C that is. never played ver B but i think it was guaranteed in that. nice flow charts btw. although after 6 dps i like to go for p,p,f+k since you get a lot more options there IMO. if it hits i usually like to mix up the drunken stance throw with another k or prefer going to lying down and mixing it up from there (though the p is the safest option i think).

okizeme is one aspect i really like to work on for my characters and was hoping to get a discussion going for shuns oki. i'm a tekken convert and two of my main characters from tag and T4 were ogre and marduk so i rely on okizeme a lot (post under my cousin techrolltv's account so if u need help at tekken feel free to ask me at tekkenzaibatsu /versus/images/icons/wink.gif). i hardly ever drink when i knock the opponent down (if i do then i only go for it from lying down position and thats only if i'm up a round or two). i like to press the attack a lot. here are my main moves for oki:

d/b+k,k: the main low attack i use although i mix it up with the drunken sweeps occasionally. a crucial element to my using this move is that i always try to have over 6-7dps when i do use it, so i can still afford to cancel it midway and go to lying down position.

d/f+p+k: very VERY good option. after you knock your opponent down, dash forward just a little and do d/f+p+k. it tracks techrolls in either direction very well and will force your opponent to block the moment they recover similar to akiras b,f+p+k. once you get the opponent not used to attacking you, you can start using the charged version. if you do the charged version and stagger them (or just get the normal d/f+p+k to hit), mix up doing a runup and throw with doing a f+p+k right on the spot. if they struggle to escape your throws too much they may end up eating the f+p+k giving you free drink points. another tactic i like to use is immediately going to handstand via HCB afterwards and mix up doing the handstand p+k with g-cancelling it to lying down. make sure to use the HCB version since it doesn't move you as far back as u+p+k (using u+p+k will allow your opponent to backdash away from the p+k elbow). additionally you're also in range for the chouwan after the charged d/f+p+k staggers or the normal version hits (i.e no need to dash forward) so that would be the preferred mid option if you want to maximize damage.

k+g and b+p: again i like to use these moves due to their tracking capabilities. i tend to use k+g more often. if you time it right i'm pretty sure you cant be hit out of the k+g from the recovering opponent and that they'll have to block. on a side note i put the computer on evade and tried shuns entire movelist on him. the only two moves the computer did not evade were shun's slow sweep, the slow sweep after his d/b+p AND his b+p. the CPU evaded the drunken stance backfist (p) easily but never evaded the b+p from his normal stance.

dodge attack: this is the option you'll want to use when you're 100% positive your opponent will attack. this will always force TR/QR opponents to block since they'll be unable to retaliate and because the dodge attack cant be evaded. i always go for this on opponents who have quick 21dmg attacks after TR's (e.g akira, pai and sarah). also useful if your opponent loves to dodge upon recovering a lot. the downside of course is that its heavily punishable on block so its definitely not abusable.

f+p+k: the only situation where i occasionally use this is after hitting all three drunken sweeps. it seems to hit TRing opponents out of their recovering attacks everytime in this case.

anyway my question to you all was how do you use shuns hopping attacks. he seems to have a plethora of jumping type attacks but honestly i dont even know half of them or how to use them. there have however, been occasions where they come out by accident but the good part is that they almost always seem to outprioritise my opponents attack in this case. mostly the attack that i get by accident is u/b+k followed by u/f+p or u/f+k.

just one more Q before i take of though. how the heck do you utilise his f,f+p+k? it seems that even when it staggers the opponent they can still recover in time to run up and throw you before you can do anything. whats the deal with this attack. hence the stagger has proved useless to me thus far so right now i just consider this attack a waste of a dp.

ok thanx for any help guys. long live shun /versus/images/icons/wink.gif

edit: nycat, really nice tactic there with the d/f+p+g, qcf+p,p, f+p+k (wall hit). sounds like a great way to get dps without suffering any retaliation for once.

 

The best Shun moves for me are somehow denied by slow, non-gamer hands, particularly the Chouwan. I cannot get the timing down on that. I mean, for a MAJOR offensive move, it seems hard for me to get that command out. In the heat of battle, with a monster fighter ALL over you?

Truly, Shun is personified Jazz, off-beat idiosyncracy; he's completely dependent on what he's faced with. I notice that Shun can even dictate matches, especially against the CPU, creating a kind of trap with his unusual moves, establishing a rhythm of disruption. The problem I run into is I feel the longer the match, the less chance I'll win it. Shun is not designed to win matches as quickly as Lau or Jacky, and I get enraged when I've worked almost 45 full seconds against a tough upper Dan, whittling away life as he does mine, only to lose in the end on some jive-ass peck.

But that IS the game. The information here in these posts is truly fascinating. I feel like someone should assemble the thoughts into a cohesive whole; like the Emergency Lau Faq on his page, or the Ken's Lei Fei Dojo, both excellent in describing situational tactics with your fighter, even to the point of grading the moves by effectiveness. Shun players NEED a strong FAQ; Shun shouldn't be as much or more of a mystery than any other character, but there's so much contrary information in every Shun thread that it's difficult to get a clear idea of his effectiveness, aggressive or not.

THIS particular thread has opened up some ideas in my Shun play, at least theoretically. Time to put some of them to use...

 

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />

the d/f+p,p after b+p hits isn't guaranteed is it???


[/ QUOTE ]

Nope, sure isn't. In fact, most of that stuff isn't guaranteed. Another that's not but works like a charm is after 10 drinks and in the laying position:
,+
If you hit right, that's a ton of damage. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

 

Hey GaijinPunch thx. Those we some awesome moves. I combined it with my own techinque and got 2 perfects in a row against a wolf thunderlord. But u need to use more often in u combos its an automatic easy way to end u combos and start a combo. I ususal do and is there any good combos when u sitting down (+) cause i think that the stance is useless

 

What am I doing wrong about the d, d/f, f-P Chouwan? All I get is his lunging punch...someone said
you don't have to go DOWN, d/f, f-P, just d/f, f-P? Can't get it to happen, except totally by
accident, and I have NEVER pulled it off in training, free or otherwise. What's the precise
input here? Is the move that hard for anyone else? And is it one of Shun's only by-hand floats that
doesn't require MC? Just wondering if a Chouwan-less Shun is a Shun devoid of his soul...

 

No, he's not devoid, but you have to work harder. Honestly, I'm only NOW comfortable with the Chowan, and even then, I sometimes get the lunging punch (which is by the way).

You have to practice on stopping at . In other words, is going to give you , and you'll get waxed.

The Chowan does help though. It doesn't require MC, but that always helps. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

 

I used to get his lay down instead of the Chouan intended for some strange reason!!! I don't even press back or anything but it happened. Until I tried doing it without and it became more frequent. I find it easier to do on player 2 side even if I go for a full hadoken command. /versus/images/icons/laugh.gif

 

I thought the lunging punch was HOLD down, then d/f, f-P (you'll have to
forgive my inability to put in the directional icons)? And up-forward P...hell, I
can't recall what that looks like. I don't think I use it? How is that possible?
The description is "forward corkscrew punch", but I keep thinking of forward P+G.
What the hell? I can't access the PS 2 right this minute to find out what's being
discussed.

Still, I'm talking about that quick-step straight mid-P of Shun's that has the
exact same command as Chouwan, except for you don't hold DOWN and you
don't do FORWARD P.

I trained a Shun AI recently, and I don't care what anyone says, I'm proud of
it. Up to 3rd Dan, when I have never gotten past 1st as Shun. Anyhow, the AI
uses the Chouwan very rarely, but when it does it seems to be Shun's strongest
upright move, aside from his throws.

 

Sorry -- my fault. I mis understood you. The one I'm thinking of is the spinny flying punch thing -- sorry, I know the name of about 3 moves per character. Never thought it was important, as the only ones that are the same in both versions are for the pussy characters, like Jacky & Sarah, which I don't use. The Japanese names are really hard to read too. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

Anyways, the move you're thinking of is:
--- you have to hold down for a second. Chouwan is . As such, you can't go directly to a Chowan from crouching. YOu have to stand, if even for a fraction of a second, then put the command in. It takes a while to get used to, but easier than Kage's Kourakuen for me -- see... no clue what that one is, do ya? .

 

Ah, that's the Chouwan secret. Thanks Gaijin. I've read some who say your
Shun play is probably the best of all your characters, so that makes you my
hero. I'm so queer for Shun that I spend more time trying to
accessorize his cool outfits than I do learning how to win with him. My full
clothing designer side won't come out until I'm well into Aoi, but I think Shun
definitely has the edge in items...I'm not embarrassed to accessorize my Shun, as
I would be with stuff you can put on, say, Lau. Shun's emperor's hat is dope! As the
kids would say.

 

I always thought Shun got screwed on all the items.... especially his sphere item. Not noticeable enough. He's got some decent stuff in Evo though, especially better colors.

In Bay Area Cup 3, C-Chaps participate, with SHU being in there -- pretty much the best Shun around. I'll rip it soon, so check that out.

I know one guy that's really good with Shun. One flow chart he does a lot is:
(pause)
When he hits with the Chowan, he then throws in a normal punch, then the Chowan with the extra small punch on the end -- very good combo, but hard to to.

 

That's a strong combo; I've seen the double Chouwan one
after another, but the P additions are pretty amazing.

Shun's items I still enjoy, but then I imagine Kage would have
cooler stuff, and I thank the lord for whoever gave Lion a
series of motorcycle helmets, to at least hide the fact that
you're playing an overall twink. My AI Shun got to 7th Dan so
I've seen more of the colors; 1P's not so bad, but 2P needs
better colors. Why not an all-blood red 2P?

Is it me or is the mule kick not a big part of advanced Shun
play? Looks like you can see Shun going into the handspring
from a mile away. I don't know what to do when it's blocked, except maybe
back-K and fall down. Just doesn't feel like a good move...but then I feel
that way about Aoi's back-d/f P crumble move: even if they're both great
moves, I don't have confidence in them.

I surely wish somebody would do a good Shun Dojo. I mean, there's been
plenty of contrary advice in the threads, and I imagine it is
due to Shun's character depth that he can be used in a
variety of ways depending on the player, moreso than other
characters. Still, there's an 85-page Kage novella by uk-guy
covering every aspect of Kage, and Ken's fantastic Lei Fei Dojo,
but no in-depth analysis of Shun's moves, what uses, what importance,
what situations...you've gotta do for Shun what you did for Aoi, Gaijin.
At least VFDC'd have that.

 

I finally had somewhat of a Shun breakthrough, ver C. I didn't understand
what good players like GaijinPunch were saying. Perhaps I've just gotten better
at the game, but Shun's brilliance finally showed, the ability of Shun to avoid the devastating
attack and using the d/b P, d/f P, low-kick off of CDs and following up with
the stronger stuff that segues into drinks, throws in particular. Like Lion, the good Shun
just keeps the opp. on the knockdown, using the short quick attacks and the sweeps, and
catching charging guys with d/b KK, mule kick followed by the quick f, P+K for the 3 extra drinks...
this is ALL obvious stuff, but I'm trying to point out to any slow thinkers like
myself reading this thread that Shun needs to be in motion all the time. And the art of sitting or
lying down after a KO to get the 3-drink pop...that is not only stylish but absolutely
necessary to Shun. All new guys confused about the drinking, forget the drinking using P+K+G
unless you're far away from the opp and have initiative, do the drinking from
sit/prone position to avoid thinking about how to time the DP. You can dodge and
drink but I find it better to CD and get ready for some offense and worry about the DPs
later. This art of CD is beyond important, for no one moreso than Shun. His best pokes
and his most important throws can jump off CD. And Shun should be sweeping/poking
all the time the opp. is in range, but you just have to know the bad things that
can happen to Shun and accept them (like getting kneed into the stratosphere
by Jeff or Jacky off a low sweep).

 

I can't explain how I played Shun before, but continuous
movement and dodging, using the low elbow-back strike and K follow (can I overemphasize how
important this move is? a fast punishing blow that to me right now is the crux of Shun's defensive
attack game), low kick, and
the uppercut are key to opening up the rest of Shun's stuff. Also, Shun is a deceptive genius,
almost as good as Lion in creating all kinds of head games while you're trying to
figure out what's coming. The real danger for any Shun is opps. with low throws, Aoi, Wolf,
Jeffrey...and Akira's bullshit low fist whatever that crumples for that double palm or shoulder...

I used to believe that Shun was handicapped, weak, and ineffective compared to
the best characters in the game. This was part of a misunderstanding about VF, in
which characters like Aoi and Shun seem compromised until you've seen how unique they
are. If there aren't enough Shuns and Aois of quality in the world, it isn't due to their being
crippled fundamentally. Most players don't want to be a Japanese schoolgirl or
an old fart who makes cat noises when he fights; these two characters were not designed to
make an insecure guy feel all empowered, so I imagine they'd not get a lot of play in the VF community at
large. And neither Shun nor Aoi have cool lines like, "I'm gonna blow you in no time!' So right there,
a % loss of players.

 

I wouldn't really give much thought to how well or poorly you do vs. the computer. We all know it's a mix of things that are impossibly good (like reversing or escaping throws better than human) and things that are impossibly bad (like falling for the same pattern until death).

After another thousand games, when you can finally win 90% of the time, you'll find it's pretty boring. You got your money's worth out of your PS2, but to get your money's worth out of VF4 you should dig up some people to play, it doesn't matter if they're scrubs or what. A few hours of playing people is worth hundreds of matches in kumite.

 

I'd only be embarrassed to play you hardcore samauri-level motherhumpers.
Against scrubs like myself I'd hope to play a little smarter;
I don't anticipate ever being able to throw escape or evade well enough
to become even average. Still, I'd throw down against any player in a
second to learn how to play the game better.

 

you were inquiring about the mulekick in one of your posts so here's my perspective on it. the way i see it, and this is by no means has to be the correct perspective, is that shun's u+k+g is one of the few launchers that you can buffer throw escapes into and still combo after easily.

what i mean by this is that normally for most players, you have to anticpate whether your launcher will connect with whatever character or not so you can decide what your appropriate defensive action will be or whether you will continue into a juggle. take akira's shoulder ram for instance. if it connects you've got to do a pretty decent juggle afterwards to maximise damage. if it was blocked you've got to start punching in throw escapes and evades immedaitely. now under pressure or some similar situations, you might mess up the escapes or the juggle because you were expecting the launcher to be blocked/hit and the reverse happened so you have to improvise immediately and for most people, doing a tough juggle or punching in multiple throw escapes AND guarding is super hard.

with shun's u+k+g, you actually have to WAIT before doing his usual juggles (u+p or f+p,p,k), hence whenever you do the launcher you can always start buffering in your defensive options, and still be able to do almost maximum damage were the launcher to hit. the WAIT factor enables you to buffer in maximum defensive options and still do almost maximum damage from your juggle. with other launchers you usually have to go for one or the other.

thats just the way i see it but i'm sure therer must be players in japan with robotic reflexes that can do both at the same time with almost any launcher.

 

Aren't you talking about ?

 

On the PS2, Shun has an and an + mulekick. I don't know if the ver C arcade is different, or what the difference between these two mulekick commands is, though I vaguely recall someone in a thread saying one or the other was blocked less. I notice seems to come out faster, but that's probably hooey.

I can speculate about Shun or any other character all I want, but I don't have access to human fights so my theories are hot air. That's why honkies here in America kind of sound like lame ducks talking about VF...VF in America has that post-Apocalyptic feel to it, with scattered survivors trying to reconstruct a civil society, while in Japan videogaming is a readily-accessible part of the culture. I like the anonymous nature, as I imagine it, of walking into one of many arcades with a card and virtually fighting a person you will never know except through his character...in America, you become part of an ill-defined cult of nice folks that need to seek, find, and nurture each other to give their interest an outlet. I'm not big on the community, the nurturing struggle of gamers in order to have virtual fighters to go up against. I only bring this up because Creed and high-profile guys like that will remind the lonely fighter that he's not part of the community of human players; I'm sure this is done to drum up support for VF being used as it was meant to, in VS mode, or in arcade duelling. But really...I'm not enough of a people stroker to want to seek others, as if putting out an ad in the personals. And I don't think playing your brothers and friends is appealing at all...in fact, it's kind of mundane as all hell; anonymous duelling or tournament play has to be preferable...