Team <<Shao long pao>> {NYC VF} thread.

Re: GTN update FT(Fun Times)

From what I heard, there are more then enough DV cameras in NY for the job. Yes, I've done videos more than 5 mins, and seriously, the way you are describing contains alot of extraneous steps imo....

but this the end of it for me...

 

Re: GTN update FT(Fun Times)

Name 1 extraneous STEP...

Just 1...

You either have

A) 2 camera's and 1 VGA converter going into a computer

B) 2 Mini DV Camera's and 1 VGA converter going into a computer with the MIni DV Camera's having to connect VIA firewire or USB 2.0 to grab the footage later.

C) 2 Camera's going into a 2 VCR's and 1 VGA converter going into a computer with the 2 VCR's having to go through an analogue capture card through RCA composite cable.

A, B, C are listed in order of difficulty.

Now point out to me where the extra step is please.

Post production editing would at MINIMUM mean a simple template in premiere to merge 3 streams of video and audio with no editing to remove gaps or bad games etc. so that the camera and gameplay sync perfectly.

It would then mean encoding a high quality AVI to goto DVD since premiere has to UPconvert the low quality VF4 and Camera footage to native 16:9 DVD resolution of 854x480 which is 480P.

Then we would go into a DVD editing program like Sonic MyDVD to burn and author the DVD. I could use a template to do this and then all the program needs to do is create the VOB files from the AVI files.

Total Time: Inifnite stupidity of about 70 hours per DVD which I have done in the past.

You post as if you've undergone something like this and was able to skip even 1 step which is literally impossible. I'd like it if you could come up with a way to skip 1 step but instead I get you posting basically "its not that hard cause you have extraneous steps...and 20 mouse clicks"

Name 1 extraneous STEP...

Just 1...

 

Re: GTN update FT(Fun Times)

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A typical 5 minute clip that contains more than 1 match takes 30-60 min to edit and encode. This is when you know exactly where the matches you want are located; if not add another hour of finding and editing the entry/exit points of the macthes.

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You said you wanted to capture in real time with dvd recorders. So how will you take out the matches you don't want?

If you did the things based on how I described, syncing the game footage and the crowd footage would only take like a few seconds. Editing out the parts you don't want would be as simple as finding the game footage, and making a selection together with the crowd footage in the timeline, and delete it. This simple task wouldn't take more than a min. If this takes you hours to do... maybe you should learn how to use those programs.

Like I have said already, the only big chunk of time it will take is encoding, but it's not something that you have to monitor, you just let it run. Actual man hours would be only about a hour or more depending if you want to add effects and stuff like that. You can't do anything interesting at all if you just recorded it in real time.

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So 2 VCR's or 3 PCI capture cards.

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Why would you ever need 2 vcr's or 3 pci capture cards???

[ QUOTE ]
It would then mean encoding a high quality AVI to goto DVD since premiere has to UPconvert the low quality VF4 and Camera footage to native 16:9 DVD resolution of 854x480 which is 480P.

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When did VF become a wide screen game? Buying a dvd recorder capable of doing PiP won't convert it to widescreen either, if that was what you wanted. If you were working with DV cameras, why would the footages be low quality, especially when you said they were high quality (uncompressed) avi's? Premiere and Aftereffect both supports MPEG4/MPEG2, you can even burn directly to dvd with the newest premiere pro, I don't see what's with all the reencoding...

Compare 2-3 man hour and additional encoding time and 0 cost dollar wise. More control over your asset, and more flexibility to do what you want.

to

Spending a ton of money for new equipment just to do a simple task, no control over production, and you risk wasting all your work if your one go didn't go right. Where can you find a consumer dvd recorder that does PiP recording anyways?

Afterall, I guess this is how NYC does their things. Since money is not a problem, you might as well just contract some company to do this, maybe my ex coworkers in the rockefeller center. Also, I'm starting to warm up to the idea of recording everything in one go and not being able to cut out any matches. Since we won't be seeing people cutting the matches that they lost. I think everyone here would love to see how each of the NYC players really play.

 

Re: GTN update FT(Fun Times)

[ QUOTE ]
If you did the things based on how I described, syncing the game footage and the crowd footage would only take like a few seconds. Editing out the parts you don't want would be as simple as finding the game footage, and making a selection together with the crowd footage in the timeline, and delete it. This simple task wouldn't take more than a min. If this takes you hours to do... maybe you should learn how to use those programs.


[/ QUOTE ]

Your quote just shows you have never done something like this. Are you kidding me? Deleting even a few seconds off of a clip takes a few minutes. Try loading up Windows Moviemaker 2, Premiere, Quicktime Pro etc. and just do it yourself. You are working with 3 12GB files if they are all 2 hours long. I chop those into 3GB sections and work from there. Want to micro manage? At best you could get it to about 700MB for a 10 min section. Also I haven't met anyone who has gotten it correct the first time around. You have to preview and look at the transitions between clips and go back and re-edit it at least a second time.

Maybe you should actually TRY this before you give advice. My computer is a 3.0GHz P4 with 1 GB Corsair Ram with a Radeon 9500 for video and 2 40GB Toshiba 5400RPM Laptop drives with 16MB cache each in a Raid configuration, that gives me a single 80GB drive with nearly double the performance in premiere with 32MB cache.

Yes you can't take out matches with a DVD recorder but it makes it simpler to get to DVD.

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Why would you ever need 2 vcr's or 3 pci capture cards???

[/ QUOTE ]

Explain to me without using Mini-DV cameras how to get video from an analogue camera that we can mount on the cabinets into the PC.

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If you were working with DV cameras, why would the footages be low quality, especially when you said they were high quality (uncompressed) avi's?

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you own a DV camera? The resolution of the footage is LOW compared to DVD. When you bring the footage into the computer you get a high quality, meaning high bit rate, uncompressed avi. It still does not change the fact that the resolution of the DV camera is not as good as DVD.

[ QUOTE ]
Compare 2-3 man hour and additional encoding time and 0 cost dollar wise. More control over your asset, and more flexibility to do what you want.

[/ QUOTE ]

Again where are you getting 2 to 3 hours. It will take 2 hours to capture 2 hours of footage from a DV camera or analogue camera hooked up to a VCR. It is 1:1 real-time after all.

Heck…reviewing 2 hours of footage takes a day by itself. You watch the material you are editing more than once to decide what to keep and what to leave out. This isn't man hours you need to put in front of the PC?

I'm not sure if you are actually reading how absurd this sounds to anyone who works in post production or has made extensive movies.

Let me repeat something you just said too:

[ QUOTE ]
0 cost dollar wise

[/ QUOTE ]

How am I recording the VF game footage again?
How am I recording the analogue camera's again?

[ QUOTE ]
Also, I'm starting to warm up to the idea of recording everything in one go and not being able to cut out any matches. Since we won't be seeing people cutting the matches that they lost. I think everyone here would love to see how each of the NYC players really play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Was that some pathetic attempt to try and say our select footage is different from our real play?

You can simply watch the maddy showcase footage I put up a while ago or the NYG3 PT. 1 DVD footage also posted a while ago. Both contain a great deal of continuous gameplay footage with nothing omitted. Is there a difference in what you see there and how we play in real life?

I didn't think so.

 

Re: GTN update FT(Fun Times)

wow, you gonna turn this into a flame war andy???? WTF against srider??? LOL (hes cool man, why him?? lol)
jesus man stop making enemies. dudes only trying to save you some $$$ man daaaam, who cares if its bad info or good.

 

Re: GTN update FT(Fun Times)

I took a TV productions class in high school... We used this thing called a SEG I think, or Special Effects Generator, which was kind of like a video mixing board... Anyway if you already have a DVD recorder, you could plug the cameras and the direct feed into this SEG board, and then have that output direct to the DVD recorder...

But yeah I have no idea how much one of those would cost or how portable it would be... But you'd do all the PIP work on the fly with the board, which is easy to operate and could save you a lot of time... just might be expensive or bulky...

-Alex

 

Re: GTN update FT(Fun Times)

See SuperG's post is cool. It actually helps since I can look something up that might save some time.

Srider just posted it's not that hard and that I could skip a few steps in his opinion.

When someone is giving bad information I want to know exactly what steps I could skip and exactly how is it so easy that Srider says alot of it can be done in "20 mouse clicks".

It makes people like me who is actually making the DVD's and videos furious that it's so "easy" for him that he can say "maybe I should learn the software" So I want to know what steps I can skip.

Srider is cool BUT it's pretty obvious that the information he tried to give was just plain wrong. If it's correct then I just want to know what steps I can skip, because according to Srider it should only take me 2-3 man hours to make the DVD other than encoding time. Of course its only 20 mouse clicks for him and its easy. Srider also doesnt need to review footage to choose clips, working with 12 GB files is easy for him because he must have 1 or 2 terabytes of storage and he never needs to do something twice because he gets it right on his first try everytime.

Thats just plain BS.

 

Re: GTN update FT(Fun Times)

Andy you're a IDIOT!!

1. For slaping Srider around for helping out.
2. We don't need DVD quality vids since it will never be release as a DVD your NYG3 DVD is proof enough.
3. Besides we don't have the money for what you're asking you MORON!

 

Re: GTN update FT(Fun Times)

LOL
its fun blasting andy sometimes /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

/versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

Re: GTN update FT(Fun Times)

Unless Srider actually replies to explain he was either incorrect because he never made a DVD, why he has an attitude in his posts or explains how I can save some time or one step from the process i'm gonna stay annoyed at his post trying to "help"

If someone is trying to "help" they can leave their attitude out if it, otherwise they can expect one right back from me.

It's sure no help to hear someone say I am doing something all wrong and I can do it better. Sorry you aren't the one spending 70 hours on a DVD then having someone say it should have taken 2-3 hours.

Notice Srider hasnt answered ANY of my simple questions, such as how can I save even 1 step after fucking retardely replying that I "should learn how to use the software"

What kind of help is that?

Some outsider to GTN wanting to "help" should explain himself clearly, otherwise he was just being a retard without ANY ounce of truth to the words he is posting.

 

Re: GTN update FT(Fun Times)

Andy, I've spelt it out for you all the steps that you need to do. I already replied and even quoted the steps that are extraneous and told you what you can do instead.....

Maybe you didn't know, but making these kinds of things (dvd's, etc) was my job when I was working in NY a few years ago.

 

Re: GTN update FT(Fun Times)

You are even worse if you used to work in the DVD production industry. I am guessing you got used to how things were done in a pro edit shop.

Go back to Page 57 of this thread. I'll reply with simple summaries of what I said to you.

Srider said:

[ QUOTE ]
why don't you guys just use something like premiere or aftereffect and encode a dvd quality vid mpeg4 with the PIP effect, it's much easier than buying a new dvd recorder.

Just set up two cameras, then time sync it. You'll have the two raw footages, and then you can do with them whatever you like.


[/ QUOTE ]

I said:

Getting two raw footages, syncing and re-encoding them is difficult.

Srider said:

[ QUOTE ]
What I've outline doesn't take as many steps as you say, and it gives better control over your footages with hardware that you already have. I guess if you want to spend more money and give up control and use default template type output from the dvd recorder, then my method would not be what you want.

Just trying to help....

In case you still want to know: start the cameras and reset the timer after you started recording, so when you import the footages, you just match up the time so you don't have to manually sync it. With aftereffect or premiere, you can output to dvd video format. It would take less than 20 mouse clicks to merge the videos and control the size, etc.... The only time consuming part would be encoding them. For menus, just use some generic dvd maker software that you can probably download from free off the internet.

So what I suggested is just a matter of more time, but safer and gives you more control.

Otherwise it's putting down a bunch of money and try to get it in one go...

[/ QUOTE ]

I said:

If it doesnt take so many steps tell me what I can skip.

Srider Said

[ QUOTE ]
From what I heard, there are more then enough DV cameras in NY for the job. Yes, I've done videos more than 5 mins, and seriously, the way you are describing contains alot of extraneous steps imo....

but this the end of it for me...

[/ QUOTE ]

I said:

Name 1 extraneous STEP...

Just 1...

Up till this point it was still all good and seeming like you were trying to help UNTIL you wrote:

Srider said:

[ QUOTE ]
If you did the things based on how I described, syncing the game footage and the crowd footage would only take like a few seconds. Editing out the parts you don't want would be as simple as finding the game footage, and making a selection together with the crowd footage in the timeline, and delete it. This simple task wouldn't take more than a min. If this takes you hours to do... maybe you should learn how to use those programs.

Like I have said already, the only big chunk of time it will take is encoding, but it's not something that you have to monitor, you just let it run. Actual man hours would be only about a hour or more depending if you want to add effects and stuff like that. You can't do anything interesting at all if you just recorded it in real time.

[/ QUOTE ]

I said:

It takes a damn long time to edit down clips since the files are several GB's. It's definately not a few min to an hour. Tell me where I can save 1 step.

From there you've given me an attitude and then just posted

Srider Said

[ QUOTE ]
Andy, I've spelt it out for you all the steps that you need to do. I already replied and even quoted the steps that are extraneous and told you what you can do instead.....

[/ QUOTE ]

I said:

Read Above. Where are the extraneous steps?

You work in DVD production and even asked me why I have to do so much re-encoding. Maybe you were using some pro hardware like native DVD resolution Digicams, premiere effects hardware accelerators that make render time basically 0, and time stamp hardware that make millisecond edits possible. I'm certainly not using pro hardware and to match up everything to look its best you must re-encode.

 

Re: GTN update FT(Fun Times)

[ QUOTE ]
Why dont you come pick up a copy from my house of the NYG3 DVD PT. 1 2 or 3 all in prefect DVD format. This DVD was also given to Kyasao and shown to SHU, Shinjyuku Jacky and the Famitsu editors who came to visit NYC.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oops, I actually remember that, sorry. My bad /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

Re: GTN update FT(Fun Times)

*Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnnn*

This arguement is pointless. Will you to stop before this escalates into someone saying something they really don't mean. Andy your cool with Srider man, please don't ruin that over some bad information. Srider the same goes for you too. One of you guys is making a mistake, that's obvious! But, who is going to be the better man and just give it up. It's a waste of both of your time.

*cough cough*

Now on to what I really wanted to post.

As we all know, Hiro is in Japan getting married. He will be returning to NYC on June 8th for just a few hours before he has to head back to UMASS. While he is in the Japan, he offered to pick up some VF.NET cards for anyone that wants one. Now before everyone gets all worked up there are some rules you have to follow.

1) Only get the number of cards for the characters you plan to play. There is no point owning a card for every character when you only play just 1 or 2.

2) You are getting a blank card and nothing more. No ring name, no changed moves(i.e. A2 or B1 moves for you character) because it can't be done since we only have version A and also it cost money to start a VF.NET account anyways. My new card will have no name as well. *sniff sniff* I am paying for a VF.net account that I can't even use. DAMN YOU SEGA!

3) The cost of each card is $5.00 or $6.00 bucks. Not sure I will have the correct amount once Hiro emails me shortly. I think their $5.00, but with the exchange rate I am sure they are a little over that. Anyways, even if you pay $6.00 it can be nice insentive for Hiro taking time away from his new wife to get cards for everyone.

4) Sorry but this offer is only for NYC people. I am not going through the hassle of mailing shit all across the U.S. I don't have the time. However, I plan to get some extra cards for myself(5-6). If anyone is in town and wants to play some games. I will be more than happy to sell you one of them.

NYC peeps, just post how many cards you want so I can get an accurate count before Hiro returns. Please everyone, the sooner you post the easier this will be. Do not wait till the last second.

 

Re: GTN update FT(Fun Times)

That would be 1 Kage card for me.

 

Re: GTN update FT(Fun Times)

3 cards here

 

Re: GTN update FT(Fun Times)

Can't we get extra cards for people who might one for people who dont check VFDC regularly. I honestly want 2 but would like another 2 for extras so that makes 4.

 

Re: GTN update FT(Fun Times)

No change moves??? This sucks...

Anyway, one akira and one wolf, thanks.

 

Re: GTN update FT(Fun Times)

Are you really giving up Jacky? /versus/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 

Re: GTN update FT(Fun Times)

[ QUOTE ]
Shag said:

Can't we get extra cards for people who might one for people who dont check VFDC regularly.

[/ QUOTE ]

sure! anyone can feel free to get extra cards for people who don't check VFDC regularly. As long as you pay, their is no problem. /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif