Teaching the game?

I'll reply here instead of creating a new thread.

Hello again, VFDC. Once more, I've returned to fighting games (VF5:FS's release and having actual competition helps.) After a few hours in the woodshed, I've learned that I'm a complete scrub again. Even before, when I was playing regularly, I only ever reached a low mid-level proficiency and had many bad habits. So, I set about creating a training plan. As I intend to get as many new people into the game as possible (Thank you, SEGA, for the $15 price point!), I wanted to be as thorough as possible when deciding on what to include. To that end, I have created 3 separate-but-related progressions: offense, defense, and movement. I'd like to present "Offense" to get everyone's ideas on what I've left out or needs to be re-ordered. The goal of each progression is to help prioritize your practice sessions. Things closer to the top of the list are easier to study/practice, give greater return-on-investment, or require less knowledge of game mechanics. Items closer to the bottom expand upon the first items, require more knowledge/practice, and/or give less return for more work. Since I'm only including "Offense" here, it should be assumed that any item listed which requires knowledge of a mechanic not directly addressed here (e.g. Advantage/Disadvantage) is included in the other two parts. Also, this is just an outline. Each section will be fleshed out once it's complete.


OFFENSE STUDY GUIDE
===================

strings: e.g. PPPK 6P+KK

combo starters: launchers, crumbles, collapses
a basic combo to follow those starters

throws and follow-ups

using down attacks, throws and pounces

bounce move(s) and how to fit into combos
beatdown move(s) and how to fit into combos

punishers for guaranteed damage situations

taking advantage of nitaku situations

using (half)circulars

guard breaks and follow-ups
stagger moves and follow-ups

taking advantage of side-turned situations

using special styles

basic setups (flowcharts)

wall combos
ring-out combos

using inashis, sabakis

landing hit-throws and/or hit-combos

knowing all of your character's moves

using unblockable and/or charge moves

pressuring rising or recovering opponent (wake-up game)

seeing stance

stance- and/or weight-specific combos

special case: "drink point" combos to remove DP from Shun (or add if you play Shun)

defeating fuzzy guard, ETEG with delayed offense

hit-confirming

normal-hit and counter-hit advantage (frame data) for all of your character's moves

advanced setups (flowcharts)

baiting your opponent

defeating advanced defenses

experience

yomi

 

As a newcomer the thing that I feel that should be taught first is spacing, movement and the "states" of actions. Like I want to know the mechanics of an evade, a crouch dash, and basic movement patterns. Also, is stepping just something that is specific to Akira?

Honestly I think frame data is shoved down newcomers throats too much...understanding advantage is not hard...and this just come with time and experience.

 

Add "Special Case: combos that work on Taka" to DriftPlusPlus' post.

 

Teaching VF Punch,Kick,Block Do work

 

Added to "Offense" section so far:

defeating 2P
special case: fighting Taka (affected launchers/etc)


To clear up any confusion about my post, this list and the two others not posted yet are strictly aimed at giving people concrete tasks to practice in the dojo/arcade mode and for independent research. It should be used -after- the student has been taught the basic theory, shown the mechanics, and then directed to the in-game tutorial and various online sources (VFDC, Gohnotes, etc.) It's not meant to be a "how-to." There are plenty of those, but I haven't seen any "you've heard about this, now get to work!" practice ladders (for lack of a better word).

For example, I can talk all day long about fuzzy guard. I am completely aware of how, when, and why it works. I can perform fuzzy guard and CD fuzzy on command. However, I never bothered to actually learn/practice when my character -can- fuzzy. Whenever I went to practice, there were so many things to work on, I would just "practice" the same combos over and over. Yes, it could be argued that that was a reflection on me and my desire to improve. Not everyone practices this way. Still, I think a list of ideas could keep some people (read: me) on the straight and narrow.

 

Great ideas Drift, I have made a similar list to learn this game. However In an effort to be comprehensive, there are some redundancies. some of them are not practiceable in the dojo at all (e.g. seeing stance) and not applicable to this game(flowchart set-ups). In a game this complex you want to boil down the tactics as much as possible. Many of these can and should be condensed into one point. And if you are teaching this game to someone else, I would do away with both Japanese words and acronyms beccause you want to be clear when you communicate. e.g. (Yomi simply means read in English). Don't make an already comlicated game more complicated and discouraging to a new player. And I appreciate the thought put into your list but it's obvious you were coming from the POV a different fighting game and I'm just a beginner.

 

Putting this here so I can link it to new players:

The VF Core Seven
=================
Crouch Jab:
Fastest attack that cannot be ducked; Guard standing or crouching
Frame data and move properties shared among the cast
12F, -5 GRD, +4 NH, +7 CH
The move all flowcharts must beat
VF's "Get off me" move
Used to interrupt strings with high attacks
Used to interrupt flowcharts that are not frame-tight

Elbow:
Fastest short-range mid-hitting attack; Must stand to guard
Frame data and move properties similar for most of the cast
14/15F, -4/5 GRD, +0/-1 NH, +7 CH, +6 CR.HIT
Used in minor-advantage situations to fish for counter or crouch hit

Jab:
Fastest high attack; Can be ducked / Vulnerable to Crouch Jab
Frame data and move properties similar among the cast
11/12F, +2 GRD, +5 NH, +8 CH
Plus-on-GRD (+2); Characters have few of these.
Used to start an offense; Like a boxer's lead jab

Sidekick:
Fastest medium-range mid-hitting attack; Must stand to guard
Frame data and move properties similar among the cast
16/17F, -6 GRD, +0 NH, +8 CH / CR.HIT
Used to catch opponent back-dashing
Used to catch opponent trying to get in

Throw:
Fastest command in the game; 10F
Throws lose to any executing attack
Used to overcome opponent's guard
Use educated guesses to escape throws
Escaped by pressing P+G plus the last direction of throw:
4, 5, or 6 for high throws
1, 2, or 3 for low throws
2 or 3 for ground throws
Left hand or Right hand for side throws

Counter-Hit Combo Starter:
Mid-hitting attack that gives combo opportunity on counter-hit
Safe on guard; Not Punishable
Used for mid/throw mix-ups when at medium advantage
("Nitaku" in VF-speak)

Normal-Hit Combo Starter:
Can be any hit level: Low, Mid or High
Gives combo opportunity on any hit
Typically not safe on guard; Punishable
Used to blast through throw attempts for major damage
("Reverse nitaku" in VF-speak)
Used to punish whiffs and very unsafe moves