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Taking online "seriously"

Discussion in 'Xbox Live' started by JHow77, Sep 15, 2011.

  1. akai

    akai Moderator Staff Member Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    Akai_JC
    XBL:
    Akai JC
    I think it can go both way. Due to the buffer windows, a player that have slower reaction speed may possibly compete equally with a player with faster reaction speed offline. In contrast, latency basically adds several or many frames delay to a player's ability to react/execute moves within the buffer window. Thus, latency may cause the player with slower reaction speed to not react/execute moves within the buffer window, but the player with the faster reaction speed is still able to react/execute moves with the buffer window.

    In other words:

    Offline: Slower Reaction Player / Faster Reaction Player can both react/execute a 14 frame move to punish a small-disadvantaged player's low punch. They can both escape throws on reaction and punished opposing player at guaranteed damage situation

    Online: Slower Reaction Player + latency cannot react/execute a 14 frame move to punish a small-disadvantaged player's low punch, cannot escape throw on reaction, and failed to punished opponent at guaranteed damage situation. Faster Reaction Player + latency is still able to react/execute a 14 frame move to punish a small-disadvantaged player's low punch, throw escape on reaction and successfully punished opponent at guaranteed damage situation.
     
  2. EmX

    EmX Well-Known Member

    Well, the buffer's delay actually just seems to make the timing wonky enough so I either input too early or input too late. Then the fun begins.
     
  3. SDS_Overfiend1

    SDS_Overfiend1 Well-Known Member

    Nice Akai!!! @MarlyJay - good point.. But fuzzying is not a substitute for knowing defense. If its too laggy you should'nt even attempt this. Knowing is half of the battle.
     
  4. MarlyJay

    MarlyJay Moderator - 9K'ing for justice. Staff Member Gold Supporter

    PSN:
    MarlyJay
    XBL:
    MarlyJay
    Exactly. So one of the things you have as an experienced player over an a newer one, basic defensive option selects, is taken away bringing you closer together in terms of ability. That's my point. Lag drags players down a level.

    Lets consider it from a different angle. Figuring out your opponents play style is one of the most fun things in VF, but lag interferes with this. When you figure out what is going on, delayed launchers and throws come into effect to work against basic defensive option selects.
    In a match with lag, how can you tell? "was that a delayed launcher i just hit him/her out of, or were there affected by lag?" at an even more basic level "do they know they can interrupt there with an elbow, or are they just unable because of lag?"

    So it's not only a factor with execution, but also decision making.
     
  5. erdraug

    erdraug Well-Known Member Content Mgr Vanessa

    XBL:
    erdraug
    However I have this hunch that buffer windows are slightly wider for online play.
     
  6. SDS_Overfiend1

    SDS_Overfiend1 Well-Known Member

    It might be pretty hard to tell what you've done if you are not fully aware of your opponents playstyle but this is where You can condition your opponents to know what options they have left that you did'nt take away. If you did get to hit your opponent out of something.. thats up to them to decide their next move. You just take what he gives. you just capitolize on it lag or no lag. You/They just have to make the adjustment due to the connection. Sometimes reacting after guarding a 2p can be troublesome depending on the connect so results may vary online.If this is the case i might evade/TE more than likely if i can't gauge the proper reaction at first.
     
  7. Feck

    Feck Well-Known Member Content Manager Akira

    I'm with Marly on this, there's too much questionable stuff that I see online and figuring out if it was lag or intentional is impossible.

    I do know that i've learnt a lot from VF online but am I better player thanks to online? I don't know...
     
  8. EmX

    EmX Well-Known Member

    The buffer's delay fluctuates depending who you're playing with and the connection quality at the time so if you play enough I can imagine it sucking a whole lot less, esp if you're in minimal lag conditions regularly.

    At the same time whiff punishing/machi/punish-based offense really doesn't exist online without an exceptionally good connection. For big characters with unsafe and slow attacks you need to rely on a lot of shenanigans and gimmicky setups to deal with people who can time their safer and faster frame traps around the buffer. Just hitting buttons is far too effective esp if you've got property and non linear moves to fall back on and mash out -- Pai, Lei and Eileen and Shun are retarded online, frankly. Fun stuff.
     
  9. akai

    akai Moderator Staff Member Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    Akai_JC
    XBL:
    Akai JC
    At a good connection, it does exist online.
     
  10. EmX

    EmX Well-Known Member

    Okay thank you for the correction, dude. I will be sure to make a mental note about every technically inaccurate thing I say for myself from here on out. Maybe you should try pointing these things out with other posters and see how that goes.
     
  11. SDS_Overfiend1

    SDS_Overfiend1 Well-Known Member

    Yes Please do because correct punishment does exist online. Only the lag offset this like in Many other games. You guard a 2p on a 1 bar connect then you must input you command damn near on impact. That is why everything i mentioned is Connection depending. Too bad for Most.. Almost all the Important people for me to play against i get 3 bars.
     
  12. EmX

    EmX Well-Known Member

    Yeah, although the fewer tricky things your char has it won't matter how good your responses are to adv/disadv without a great connection IMO. If you're eating quick, spammable moves just from not being able to find the buffer's rhythm -- like fast jabs or a fast launcher that you can buffer in (hi chouwan, 33PP with lei, etc.) without even hit checking -- mixed with throwing out rewarding, evasive moves that also happen to launch like Shun's donkey kick, eileen/lei's everything, or 2_4P/2_6P, 1P, 3K+G with Pai you're going to get hit hard eventually.

    I just rage out at that point -- I'm not going to play around the internet infrastructure's silliness (the real god tier in this equation). I know what's going happen but can't execute the response to it because the inputs are that questionable sometimes. Other times I am just being predictable, but it's not like it figures in to what the other guy is doing LOL. Since the # of moves I can punish gets drastically reduced I see no reason to become psychic to deal with it.
     
  13. SDS_Overfiend1

    SDS_Overfiend1 Well-Known Member

     
  14. EmX

    EmX Well-Known Member

    Ah yes the "quote one part of a post school" of trolling. Pioneered by wrong people all across the internets.

    I did acknowledge that it can be useful months ago and several subsequent times including that post but don't let that whole reading thing stop you.
     
  15. SDS_Overfiend1

    SDS_Overfiend1 Well-Known Member

    Now I'm trolling you? Because I highlighted the only part worth replying to?

    Go head with your bullshit. I try to be civil but your a pessimistic asshole who choose to remain a loser. Stay Free!!!!
     
  16. EmX

    EmX Well-Known Member

    Yes making bad faith replies to what I'm saying to hear yourself talk could be construed as trolling. I am pessimistic, though. Good yomi.
     
  17. SDS_Overfiend1

    SDS_Overfiend1 Well-Known Member

    Eat a dick you fucking loser.. You trying to blame lag for being shitty like the rest of the excuse makers... Lmao!!!
     
  18. Feck

    Feck Well-Known Member Content Manager Akira

    It's not that we're shitty cause of lag, just that lag is shitty.
     
  19. EmX

    EmX Well-Known Member

    You are like the last person on earth who's going to motivate anyone to play anywhere with that cranky bs routine -- let alone in any online shit-fest that you seem to think entitles you to serious props. Do you want a trophy minted for your online w/l ratio?

    Call the netcode excuses all you like, but why do you have this persistent, nagging desire to legitimize online play in every fucking thread it comes up? I don't get it.
     
  20. Shag

    Shag Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    ShagPSN
    XBL:
    Shagnificent
    Play nice fellas. Lay off the name calling and goading please. [​IMG]
     

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