Starting out with Sarah

I don't agree with this. Post 6PK you basically have a lot of options which aren't very risky. Also any situation that causes a knockdown off of a few hits promotes a strong oki game because of the lack of damage and combo weight scaling.

The options are:
- 4K+GG into 50/50 meaty mixup.
If they didn't tech they remain on the ground and you retain advantage. Just block the wakeup kick and continue making them guess. If they tech and guess correctly you are at -7 but too far away to actually enforce nitaku. They would have to dash throw, so you can still crouch dash or backdash.

- 4K
If they tech you have ~+4 and can run this as if they blocked 4K point blank. No tech and you get PK as guaranteed damage and the guess isn't over yet! If they continue not teching 9K+G,K works from here and gives more damage. If you feel a tech coming, meaty! If they don't tech after 9K+GK, down attack 100 damage.

- 9K+G,K
This is ok imo. If they tech and block this, why would you stop attacking? You are -5 but you have a followup. The second hit is also completely safe on evade. If they don't tech and get hit, I usually just do 3KK because they ain't teching that shit!

- 1K+G,K
This is the riskiest option but gives the most guaranteed damage if your opponent does not tech. If they tech, you can still backflip 2/8P+K etc. This is the only option in this situation that is risky.

I believe this is when Sarah has the least risk overall.

EDIT: I should say when Sarah is most efficient. Other attacks to consider for this type of situation are 66K+G, 9K+G NH, FL 6KK.

Don't bother running actual nitaku if you don't have to. It's an unnecessary risk in this case. I'm not eating a launcher if I don't have to!

I think 4K and 2P+K,K are fundamentally different moves. They have different uses so the comparison is kinda pointless imo. 4K doesn't really get much of a reward for CH'ing your opponent with but always has an out. 2P+K is kinda the opposite.

EDIT : I like this discussion. : P

 

BLACKSTAR, everything you're saying could be correct or not. You prefer playing the Nitaku when you hit with 6P instead of taking the guranteed damage? That's absolutely fine as long as you feel comfortable with it. YOU (seems to) prefer getting the guaranteed damage and play with what follows 6PK.
I'd personally go for 6PK too as have really good options if they tech or not, of course you have to guess. Don't you have to guess when you have Nitaku advantage as well? If you get Nitaku against Jacky (or Wolf, or Jean and others) he still does more damage off 6K than you with a launcher on CH.
To sum everything up I think Sarah's options after 6PK are way better than her Nitaku game.

If 6P gets blocked it's another story, it's -18 on block but you can still use that as your advantage.

EDIT: Not one but TWO posts while I was writing?! Next time I won't check lunch or anything and I'll finish writing as soon as possible. lol

 

@BLACKSTAR: think of it like that "what can go wrong with 6PK ?"
As you said Sarah doesn't want to get in a defensive scenario too much, and what happens in the case 2P+K gets blocked ? You have to chosse between -10 or -15.
50 damage at -15 is an OK average. But against 46P characters it's more like 70-80, risky.

As Pana pointed out, the beauty of Jacky is that he kindah reverse the nitaku game and make throw a risky bet. And even on a successful CH guess you get less damage than a 6K normal hit if you guess wrong. As Bane would say "Do you feel in charge ?"
With the 6PK you get your damage and a situation where he cannot use big launchers and pretty much nothing can go wrong.
Think of 6PK damage as the same damage of a normal throw but without the risk of being launched for half your health, and far better oki.
Also as mentionned by GT, Sarah's is one of the best char for hitting people OTG, you want to use that ^^.

PS: All this talk made me want to use Sarah now

 

There seems to be some very different ways of playing Sarah here. Comparing a very strong mixup move, which looks awesome on paper but ONLY gives mixups, to a hitconfirmable mid that gives combo if it hits (minus Taka ), are two very different things imo. I also think 4K is awesome, but these moves have very different uses. I would say there is no single 'correct' way of playing Sarah here.

ps. I dont personally utilize oki much since Im used to my opponents defending against okizeme perfectly... but thats just me.

 

Really great thread, I think everyone have some really good and interesting points. If you're gonna compare how unsafe 6pk and 2p+kk are though, no one mentioned the fact that you can just duck the second hit of serpent if it's not hit checked, in which case it's even more punishable than 6pk on block.

 

4K doesn't only give mixups, on CH it gives guaranteed FL 3PK that leaves you at +5 which is where Sarah wants to be with FL 3K as a threat.
On crouch I guess 3PK must be pretty hard to block, maybe even 3K is I don't know for sure but you are at least in a strong nitaku situation in FL.
On block you are at least at +4.

Nani ?

 

If something doesn't work, I tend to try something else.

 

Chibitox your post in the first page bothers me, Lion CAN hit-check his 6pp in CH. Is your reflexes so slow that you never knew this or something?

 

@Lucky_GT 6pk > 9k+gk only works on middleweight and below. For heavier characters the 4k setup is better.

@Manjimaru I think you are over analyzing the definition of oki. If your opponent tech rolls, you're not gonna let them wake up without putting some type of pressure on them right?

@BLACKSTAR, @Chibitox is right. Nikatu just means 2 way guess, so Sarah has FL 3k and FL 2K.

@Kamais_Ookin I didn't know you played Lion. 6pp is not confirmable. 6p itself is, but not 6p into 6(p)p.

 

Sorry to bother everyone with something completely different from the actual OP but:

i) I was under the impression that floats on CH and also tracks to Sarah's stomach. Why would YOU not mention it in the half-circulars section?

ii) What's a sample combo for ? I can't find anything in Sarah's VFdc combo page so i can't compare its damage with a float (see previous question).

Once again thank you Modelah for yet another translation (and of course a big thanks to YOU for his initial blog post).

 

No because you can crouch to avoid both option.

 

FL K doesn't serve a purpose in regards to any sort of nikatu mixup. You can say FL 2K and FL K+G are a nikatu mixup though, but it depends on the situation.

FL K really shines when it counterhits. From +4 and below, an opponent can backdash away from most of Sarah's attacks. FL K will stop backdash, and gives her a free FL KK or FL PK.

FL 6K won't beat back dash afaik, but will counter hit an opponent trying to use an attack as a whiff punisher to Sarah's other moves in FL.

 

I second this. Out with it please!

 

I was going to write something stupid, but then realized what the actual nitaku is: throw/mid mixup that cannot be avoided with fuzzy guard. The throw part is important because it cannot be avoided by evade.. So Sarah can actually often get a 3-way mixup between FLA 3K, FLA 2K!P+G and FLA K+G. This however is not nitaku(two-way choice). Just a reminder before the discussion travels any further to the depths of facepalm.

Sarah KP is a CH launcher yes (and a very good one), and should be listed in any halfcircular lists for sure.

FL K in final showdown serves a completely different purpose than in vanilla. It is +4 on block and so forces some guessing games too, usually involving FLA 6K. edit: Cozby is right in that backdash beats that mixup, but backdash beats most things anyway..

Also about FLA 6K, something that was a complete surprise to me.. FLA 6KK second hit cannot be evaded. As in, if you evade the first hit you will get hit by second hit. Thanks to Combolammas for this. EDIT: more accurately, cannot be ECD:ed.

edit edit: is all of this actually relevant to the topic anymore? The topic was "Sarah for beginners"..