Some Eileen Questions

Yeah, I was talking about the third fourth hit. When I said 2 Ks, I was referring to the fact that the original poster used the K+G notation (as if it was out of monkey stance) and the first K is the second and third hit, and the second K is the fourth hit. Whichever notation you use, If you press the last K super early, you don't get a chance to do it again.

Edit: The middle K causes 2 kicks

 

Yeah, my fault. Still, you get what I mean?

 

Wich, I must add, is hilarious.

 

Incoming wall-of-text - Marly, Tricky (and anyone else who's active with Eileen nowadays), looking for your help when you have the time and patience to read and reply to all my nonsense!

So, I'm sick of playing Jacky and feeling like I'm only 50% effective since I suck, can't hit-check, use Iaigeri, or recognise hit-types. Even though Eileen is supposed to be 'worse' than Jacky, right now, I feel her synergy with my play-style (and my lack of synergy with Jacky) makes her a better choice. Plus, she's cute and more fun than Jacky to play.

Anyway, I've been out of the loop with her for a long time, and when I play her, I'm only using a very small selection of attacks, I find myself thinking 'I remember that XXX was good for something, but I don't remember what', and I'm also unsure about which combos are the ones I want to use now.

So I've looked at the combo list, which I'm hoping is up-to-date, and I'm gonna list up the combos I'm thinking are the best for me, along with my reasons why (sometimes I'll opt-out of combos that are too difficult to perform or require stance-watching etc). Generally, I like a combo to work on everyone at least up to Jean, and doesn't require stance-watching or any tricky 'must delay for X frames and then hit exactly at Y frame' nonsense. In short, I like easy combos.

I've also come across a couple of things that might be better than what's listed, so I'll mention those as I come to them, that they might be discredited or verified by persons more knowledgeable than I (read: anyone else).

I'm also gonna list up the moves that I'm not sure/can't remember their uses, in hopes that I can be advised on how to implement them (and directed to any combos that might result from using them).


First off, here're the combo-starters:

Bateikyaku ( BT )

I found the listed BT > ++, > > + to be a bit tricky because you can end up getting the light pounce from the if you don't hold the direction during the combo, and then cancelling into the kick thing can be a problem for 'tards like me. I found a combo that's two points less damage and still seems to work on the same people (tested on Aoi and Kage). It would be: BT > ++ > .

Also, a quick-and-dirty test on Wolf gave me a combo of BT > / > +. Hits for 60. Might wanna list it up just so there's something down for the fatties.


Enkou Kenka ( )

I'm thinking of staying with > / > +. It works on almost everyone, doesn't require stance-watching and doesn't have any special nonsense. I was considering learning > > + > + > + for the extra six points, but the "2FK on Kage " puts me off, since my biggest competitors (Koenraku and Exzety) both use Kage. I might work on it later.


Enkou Nyurin ( )

Looks like > > is the best listed one, but, I'm not too good at landing that third kick (the just-frame one), and I noticed > + > was listed up - I'm wondering: can I just use > +? I didn't see that listed so maybe there's a reason not to use it? In fact, I tested on Kage, and in both stances, > →+ works for 67 damage - that's only one less damage than the 'just-frames' kick combo. Not sure if that'd be worth listing up as an 'easymode' version for scrubs like me who can't do anything remotely challenging.


Enkou Toutou ( + )

I think I've found a combo for the lightweights that's more damage than the listed + > , and I think it works on middleweights too (I don't have the time to test on every cast-member - I tried it on Aoi and Kage). The combo would be: → → → . Hits for 63 damage in both stances. Might be worth investigating as a more powerful 'works on most people' combo. Note that I also tried it on Wolf, in both stances, and the combo thing doesn't go green (indicating it's a real combo), but Wolf is scraping the ground on one of the hits - not sure what to make of it. I did have the CPU set to tech-roll on recovery.


Hikou Bokushoku( )

> > Looks like the obvious choice. The Jeff-specific stuff doesn't bother me much. It's three points more than what I was using: > > +, and it works on all the same people.


Hikou Hagetsu ( )

A quick-and-dirty test on Wolf gave me the same combo as from BT . It would be > / > +. Hits for 65. Might wanna list it up again just so there's something down for the fatties.

Same thing found as from BT , where I found the listed BT > +++ > > + to be a bit tricky because you can end up getting the light pounce from the if you don't hold the direction during the combo, and then cancelling into the kick thing can be a problem for 'tards like me. I found a combo that's two points less damage (79) and still seems to work on the same people (tested on Aoi and Kage). It would be: BT > ++ > .


Jinrai Santen ( + )

I found a better 'works in both stances' combo than + > , but it only seems to work up to (and including) Jacky. I tested it on Aoi, Kage, and Jacky, and it works. Doesn't seem to work on Wolf or Akira. It's 53 damage, so 12 more than the listed one (though the listed one does work on all weights). The combo is: + > > +. Might be worth listing up since all the others are stance-specific.


Kesshi Hanbi ( + )

The combo list seems to be lacking any info for anyone that isn't Taka.

I found for both stances, that + > > works for 71 damage, and for closed-stance, you can do + > > >+ for 75 damage. I tested them on Aoi, Kage, and Wolf, though I think they'll probably work on Jeff too.


Koushuhon( ++, )

Found a combo that's easier to perform and does the same damage as the listed one of ++, > > + > +. You can just shorten it to: ++, > > . Does 62 damage just the same.


Side Crumple

Just gonna stick with Side > + > > . I find the other one tricky on the inputs and I'd rather get a decent amount with the 85 combo than screw up altogether. Can actually finish with for 1 point more damage, but you don't seem to get the same spinning knockdown and they can tech-roll rather quickly, so I think I prefer the spinning ender.


Tanhikyaku ( )

> > + > > seems to have some errors listed. It's 83 damage, not 61, and the '' part of 'Zenk ' is missing, so it's reading like you're supposed to just do an empty Zenk, then lead into the . Also, you can end with 1PK for one point less damage but gain the spinning knockdown, like the side crumple combo. Not sure which is better, or how much the spinning knockdown actually matters.


Zenku Soutsui ( + )

I found 73 points (over the 69 listed) that seems to work on everyone in both stances (tested on Aoi, Kage, Wolf). It would be: + > > 214PPP. In open-stance you can do 214P+KP > > > + for 77 damage.


Phew, so that's all the combos covered - please take a look and see if I'm doing something wrong, or missing something that's just better (I'm hoping some of the things I've found might be useful too).


Next, I'd like to ask about certain moves and when/why they're useful.

First is the Kesshi Hanbi ( + ). It's slower and less damage than the , and it's only special high rather than mid. Is its main/only advantage that it's safe at -5 on guard? More of a 'poking' floater?

Next is the Enkou Soutekitou ( + ) string. It's two special lows that don't really seem to offer much. The frames on hit and guard are all middling, and the only thing I see is that there's cancel options from the first one, but the second hit doesn't really seem threatening enough to dissuade someone from attacking straight away. Maybe I'm missing something, or is it just not that great?

Next is Enkou Toutou ( + ). Safe on guard, disadvantage on normal hit, and gives a combo on counter. It's linear and is 21 frames. Seems like a lot of risk, since it can be evaded, and even on normal hit, I lose frames, as well as it being slow. The counter hit combo is nice though - I'm just not sure when this would be a good choice (over something that gives more damage on CH (or combos on NH as well) and is faster). Any tips?


Her back-turned game seems to lack anything to punish standing guard with any real power. There's the low-sweep that gets a knockdown, and there the string, but they don't seem nearly as threatening as the combo you'd eat for guarding low. Is that the point? To make them fear the combo and take your free knockdown/ string, or is there something I'm not seeing.


I think that's everything for now. I know it's a huge list, but I don't want to start playing her again and develop bad habits, such as using weaker combos for no good reason, or misusing or ignoring a move of hers because I don't understand it.

Thanks in advance to anyone who responds - I'll check back periodically.

 

Will very much appreciate it. I'd rather get a detailed response that takes time than some half-baked one-liner. There's an online cookie in it for you.

 

Yeah give me a lil bit of time to write a response too it's a lot to go over and I got ton of comments.

 

Excellent. You get a smiley pizza for your efforts!

 

I'll answer this in parts otherwise I'll never start. So for the 1P+KP string, the way you put the fear of the monkey into your opponent from attacking you after the 1st move is that you can delay the living daylights out of the 2nd hit. Keep in mind that if they get CH you get a stagger that's damn hard to struggle out of and will be able to get a nice stagger combo for a good chunk of life. That's as good a reason as any for them to respect the follow up or eat dmg. You can also delay it long enough to hit someone who evades the first punch and wants to counter attack after their successful evade. If you time it right, you will track them and punish them for not respecting your string.

You can also cancel into 236K+G and no move is fast enough to interrupt it.

 

Does that work on guard, too? Like, can I do 1P+K (guarded), then cancel into 236K+G and beat out high punches and low punches?

Thanks for starting on the reply - I've been holding off of learning any combos 'till you guys give your input on my finds so that I don't learn any bad habits. I look forward to hearing more from you.

 

1P+K and 3P on guard can not be interrupted if you cancel into 236K+G. One of the best ways to get folks to respect those moves.

For combos just learn the ones that are easiest for you to pull off. Spinning knockdown is good because you can OM to their head and force a half circular mid kick or the low circular rising attacks. Makes it easier to defend against rising attacks and you generally get better oki in general in those situations.

 

Yeah, with the combos, I just don't want to end up learning a combo that turns out to be sub-par to another one and find myself unable to break the habit. It's already happened with Jacky's heeldrop and I lose like 30 points 'cos of it. I'd rather have my findings verified/corrected before I start working on them. For example, if you say that combo X that I found is fine but that I can add a punch in there for free, I'd want to do that. If you said combo X can be changed to end in a different way for a few more points of damage, I can then go ahead and decide whether I think I can manage the inputs for your improvements or whether I think they'd be too hard. If your improvements are just as easy to do, I'd likely use them, but if I find I keep screwing 'em up (like I do with Iaigeri a lot), I'll use my easymode combos.

 

Tricky said to post saying what, out of my giant wall-of-text, I'd like addressing first.

I think the most useful thing would be to have the combos addressed, letting me know if what I've found is good, if there's better stuff that's just as easy to do, if I've made a mistake with some of the 'new' stuff I've found (meaning the stuff I've listed as being better than what's on the combo list etc). This way, I can start working on learning my combos and getting them into my muscle memory, and the gameplay tips can be addressed later, since it's easier (at least for me) to learn how to use a new move than it is to get out of the habit of doing one combo in favour of another - once they become an instant reaction, it's really hard for me to break the habit.

 

Oh, also, I didn't see listed up. The best I can find for it is , ,. Works in both stances - tested in Aoi and Kage.

 

best I got for 66K is 6PPK, or it might be 2P > 6PPK. It's funny, but a lot of combos I kinda wing, unless they're regular launchers, and even then I wing it sometimes. All the combos you listed seem to me like they would fit the "easy mode" combos. I'm a terrible judge of how hard an eileen combo is simply because I find her inputs to be easier because I'm used to them. What looks like an easy eileen combo to me is out of reach for some players. While an easy combo to someone else, might seem to me to be just as hard as other combos.

 

I screw up the quarter-circles a lot (particularly 214), so I try to avoid those, and I'm not too good at intentionally wasting frames in combos and usually screw up the timing, so I don't use those either.

 

Then on avg you can use any of the P -> 6P+KPP in most situations. I'd stick to that kinda combo if you can't use PP214ppP which I still mess up every so often. Shame on me for dropping those combos.

 

Yeah, it's really weird - for some reason, I don't have issues doing 214ppp, but when it comes to 214K+G, I mess it up a lot. Maybe it's a timing thing or something.

Anyhow, I've started working with the ones I've listed since you said they're all fine. I'm finding it hard to do the 6P+KPP > 3P > 214K+G online because the timing is quite fast, and with bad connections, the 3P doesn't always land.

I am liking 8K from back-turned - it's something I never used before. I like how it works against a crouch, and it's a nice thing to apply after scoring a K+G.

 

What I'd recommend is instead of 3P > 214K+G, you can do 4P+K > 214K+G as it's a lil more easy to hit with sometimes. You also can just do 4P+K,K if you want super easy.