Several Staple Combos

Wen, it appears it has. /images/icons/smile.gif

The reason I thought D,f+P+K -> DLC was OK for S1 level is that even if the DLC is not completed, most beginners can at least do 2/3. A 2/3 DLC comboed from a shoulder ram isn't bad damage.

As for Sarah's f+K -> f+P, b+K -> stomp, doesn't the knee need a minor counter? I was actually thinking about f+K -> d+K -> stomp instead. That's much more reliable, easy to do, and the damage is decent. What do you think?

As for take off kicks...hmmm...I dunno, I guess I've never really considered any jump kick combos as "staple".

I define "staple" as:
- Quite important
- Frequently used
- Fairly consistent

As for Wolf...yeah...you don't exactly need skills to get 40~50% combos with him... But that's why he's so dangerous. /images/icons/wink.gif

ice-9 | Sennin

 

About VFKids in realtion to VF2

Does VFK's moves share the same stats as VF2? I wouldn't know as I never played the game. So I will state my reservations and leave it at that.

Well... I actually know something about that, from all the "School Master Mode" combo scripting that Yupa and I did. VFKids has a mode ("School Master Mode") where you can script joystick motions--i.e. Down for 1 frame, G for 3 frames, etc.--and assign these scripts to buttons. 1 button 1/2 SPOD, SDE, m-DbPm! WooHoo that was fun!

Anyway from these experiments (trying to get really complex combos scripted) we determined that the moves in VFKids actually had 20% less frames of animation. So when we scripted combos, a 10 frame move in VF2 became an 8 frame move in VFKids. That was the only way we could get the combo timing correct. Ergo, to speed up VFKids they actually cut frames of animation.



cheers,

<font face="Arial, Helvetica" color="#3366ff">kbcat</font>

 

Okay,I stand corrected on the sarah knee elbow heelsword stomp combo. I tested on DC, it works in open stance for all weights without counter and in closed for up to middleweight. Still,that's almost in all circumstances, except closed stance Wolf/Jeff, and is worth learning at step one. Elbow knee stomp or knee lowkick stomp hardly needs pointing out, I think.

Wen

 

Lau
S1: D/F+P,P MC (major counter) -> P,P,P,d+K

Just to clarify Lau's S1, do you really mean DF+P (MC) -> P(G) -> PPPd+K? In my mind, I don't think the S1 combos (for any character) should include MCs or mCs. For Lau I'd suggest

S1: b,d+P+G -> b,f+P -> d+K

Actually, the second P doesn't have to be a separate P(G) but is a continuation of the canned combo. So upknife-punch -> punching kick. I do agree with you that this is not a good combo for S1 players, and I'm wracking my brain for a more useful one. It seems a little bit unexpected to realize that Lau actually doesn't have any reliable combo starters that doesn't require an mC except for his b,b+P attack.

The reason why I don't like the S1 combo you suggested, however, is that S1 players don't really need to know any throws aside from f+P+G, b+P+G, and b,f+P+G when he's feeling ambitious. b,d+P+G is a pretty weird button input. Furthermore, S1 players often play S1~S2 players--why go for a weaker, though guaranteed combo when he could do something more ambitious?


Shun Di
S1: b,d/f+P -> b,f+P,P,P -> d/f+K+G
S2: d/f+P+G -> d/f,f+P, b+P -> b,d/f+P -> d+P+K,K,K
S3: d/f+P+G -> d/f,f+P -> D/F+P,P+K -> d+P+K,K,K

Does S1 require an MC or mC? I'd offer something simpler:

S1: D,f+P -> df+K+G

I agree with you on this one. But what about b,d/f+P -> d/f+K+G? When I was starting out with Shun, I loved to use that b,d/f+P move. Further, because Shun's D,f+P requires him to crouch, I think S1 players may be more comfortable with b,d/f+P.

Or better yet, what about u+K -> d/f+K+G or u+K -> B/D+P,K? Both are relatively simple and still used at higher levels of play.

Aoi
S1: D,f+P+G -> d/f+P+G
S2: P+K MC -> HCB+P+G -> b,d+P+G -> u,d+P+G
S3: uramawari -> F+P+K -> P+K -> d+K+G OTB

Aoi's S1 is definitely a staple combo for her, but I wouldn't recommend it for S1 players, mainly because it's pretty useless without the ability to crouch dash. I'm assuming S1 players aren't fully proficient at crouch dashing. Sure, the combo would still work for the S1 player, but it wouldn't be staple. If you'll permit MCs for S1s then consider:

S1: df+P (MC) -> PPK -> d,U+P

I'm a little bit stuck on this one. D,f+P+G is such an essential move for Aoi--that and the fact that she really doesn't have any good attack combos...I mean, how many times have any of us consistently get the chance to do d/f+P MC combos?

I would also consider the guaranteed ground breaks/throws (df+P+G) after certain reversals, MCs, etc, to be staple for an Aoi player at level of Step 2 or greater.

I also agree with you on this...actually, when I think about it, this is probably more useful than knowing P+K MC -> throw.

ice-9 | Sennin

 

Thanks for testing Wen, I think I'm going to go with your suggestion. I did a little tinkering, and f+P,b+K -> stomp is actually her strongest air combo. F+P,P,u+P -> big stomp comes very close though. Too bad both are not always guaranteed.

ice-9 | Sennin

 

Why's it ok for Lau's S1 combo to be initiated from crouching, but not Shun (re: D,f+P -> df+K+G)? I don't think it's that hard for an S1 player to crouch The only other Lau S1 combo I can think of would be b,b+P,d+P -> PPd+K.

The main difference, I think, is that Lau's D/F+P is an essential move for the Lau player, whereas D,f+P is not nearly as necessary for Shun. Do I even have D/F+P in my Step 1 guide for Lau? Can't remember... >_<

Finally, would you agree that the motions b,d and b,df are equivalent in terms of skill required? (Think back to when you were first learning these inputs) I would say that b,d is easier, but not by much.

You are right of course...it's my personal learning history that clouded my judgment. The b,d/f motion was more common in VF2 (or was it just Akira?) and that's probably why I was more comfortable with it. That said, however, I challenge most Step 1~2 players to try and get Akira's RBC or his ST...I'm willing to bet they'd get the RBC more (mainly cause the computer is more strict in the ST input).

ice-9 | Sennin

 

Heheh, Lau combo without upknifehand ? beats me Myke ^^;
I think it is fine to include uknife combos just becuz even if it is not counter hit you still get to connect the 3 punchs afterward, and at S1 you prolly can tack on the last sweep atleast half of the time. Other then that, i will suggest Rising roundhouse kick and small pounce, easy and safe, plus good damage. But then the motion can be a bit awkward for S1 player according to Ice's standard. Then, the downknife Punch Kick is also a pretty good and easy combo (wait, it is not combo it is just a move >_<). Ahh forget it just put upknife punchs in, they are all like 1 star or less in Gamest mook2 anyway ^___^