SC2

Tekken 4 is a pretty broken game. Pokes beat out pretty much any other move. Jin's simple punch rush can immobilize an opponent pretty easily. Hopefully T5 will fix it, because I was into tekken in the past, played a lot of Lei Wu Long.

Soul Calibur 2 has depth but it isn't balanced. When you make a lot of plans for depth but don't balance the relationships, then the depth is meaningless. For example, the high mid low relationship with the vertical/horizontal slash relationship makes sense. However certain characters have the ability to dodge most of these attacks, rendering them useless. All characters can guard impact, but some characters have no move that allows them to take advantage of it because they're too slow. There's just a bunch of broken shit in SC2, that only hardcore players actually know.

In VF, everything has a counter, and it's rare that you see a move that isn't counterable. I'd go so far to say that you can counter anything if you can outsmart the opponent. There's no characters that are exceptions to the rules.

 

<font color="white"> Thank god you explained how Tekkken works,I was about to waste 40 bucks on it,that post really helped me,and youre right abot Soul Calibur,some characters are easy to dodge nighmare for example,you can forsee his trust seconds from it hiting you,wich make it useless against skilled players and once you got the Soul Edge the game will be too easy youll kill most characters with tree or four slashes,I see why they didnt put the shield weapon function on the game </font>

 

Well... I'm just one person, there are a lot of people who play Tekken 4 and enjoy it so it's just my opinion. But no one in Asia plays T4, they all still play Tag.

 

Korea still plays T4 and even if they didn't, since when does asia has to approve what is hot and what is not ? We still play alot of Tag in the US also.

Some like T4 and some hate it, I can only advise someone to rent it out first and try it for themselves. I personally enjoy it alot but then again that's just me. I agree that the game may be somewhat broken but all in all it's still a very solid fighter. Jin is overpowered but beatable if you're good defensively, play safe and don't get your back against a wall. I've seen (VERY good) Kuma players beat Jin players.

 

<font color="yellow"> I think I'll just stick with Bloody Roar 4</font>

 

KT said:

"In VF, everything has a counter, and it's rare that you see a move that isn't counterable. I'd go so far to say that you can counter anything if you can outsmart the opponent. There's no characters that are exceptions to the rules."

I think this is the reason most people who are a little in the know about all 3 games feel that VF is best: because it ISN'T BROKEN. No matter which characters, story, fighting style you like, it pretty much comes down to this. In VF, any character can beat any other chatacter, provided the players think.

A while back I asked TomHilfigger (who I think knows something about Tekken) if in T4 a yoshimitsu player could beat a jin player if the skill levels were equal (and high enough to know what's going on). He said no. VF just doesn't suffer from this kind of thing. While it may seem that some characters, (Kage, Akira, Lau) seem overpowered, there isn't anythng in particular that they do that can't be overcome. If you look at the finals at Evo2003, VF had 2 Kages, 2 Aois, 2 Jackys, an Akira and a Lion, with the Lion player winning. Wasn't the T4 finals all Jin?

I know this is about SC2, just wanted to point out I think KT hit the nail on the head.

Spotlite

 

From what I've heard, Korea put down T4 3 weeks after it came out and went back to tag. You can't even find it in arcades (I heard).

And in terms of competitive fighting games, Asia does determine what's competition worthy and what's not, because that's where all the real competition is. I mean, play games for fun, for graphics, for what language the characters speak in the intros (psh), whatever. But in terms of competitive play, Asian players outnumber the rest of the world and therefore their skill level is higher because of amount of comp, therefore they know whether a game is 'tournament calibur' or not.

 

[ QUOTE ]
KTallguy said:

From what I've heard, Korea put down T4 3 weeks after it came out and went back to tag. You can't even find it in arcades (I heard).

[/ QUOTE ]

You heard wrong, they still play T4, maybe not more than Tag but it's still played. And like I said before we still play alot of Tag in the US also. They're two completly different games.

[ QUOTE ]
KTallguy said:
And in terms of competitive fighting games, Asia does determine what's competition worthy and what's not, because that's where all the real competition is. I mean, play games for fun, for graphics, for what language the characters speak in the intros (psh), whatever. But in terms of competitive play, Asian players outnumber the rest of the world and therefore their skill level is higher because of amount of comp, therefore they know whether a game is 'tournament calibur' or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Japan won VF4
Korea won Tag
France won SC2
US won T4

Their skill level are higher in certain games. VF's been big over there for ages but the US never gave a fuck until recently. VF3TB was tournament worthy, why wasn't it big in the US ? Asia doesn't dictate shit just as much as the US and Europe don't dictate shit no matter what skill level or amount of competition. It all boils down to whether or not X fighting game is popular on all 3 major markets.

 

I know that France won SC2 and US won T4. But Japan and Korea don't play SC2 or T4 as much. Just like they don't play MvC2. If they played it, they'd be better because of the quality of the competition. How many japanese/korean players entered the tournaments for SC2/T4, and how many SC2/T4 tournaments are actually held in Japan? There's a correlation. I know that you say T4 is played in Korea, and I'm sure it is, but not on the level that Tag is.

The reason they (Asian countries) don't play the games is because they either A: don't like the games because of balance issues, or B: just don't care for the game... T4 is an example of a game that they don't like because of balance issues, and MvC2 is an example of both... at least I think.

The US doesn't pick up on VF in general because the US audience doesn't care for it(too hard), but since the US in general has less good competition, only very high level players will understand when a game is 'broken', while casual players in the US will go buy SC2 and T4, bang away on their controllers and not know the difference.

VF3tb had a shitty port to the US, and limited arcade exposure... Namco has very good arcade exposure, and good, well advertised ports, that's another reason for the US's preferences.

I also believe that the only 3D fighting game that is has a large following in US and Asia is Tag. Don't know about Europe. Capcom and Sammy's 2D fighting games have a good following all over the world, and SNK fighters are mostly competitive in asia. So basically the interest is split, there are games that Japan and Korea play competitvely, and games that the US and Europe play competitvely, and maybe Tag is the only one that has a large following in all three regions.

Trust me, if Japanese and Korean players sat down and played T4 and SC2 competitvely, they would have taken all of EVO's prize money back to their respective countries.

 

[ QUOTE ]
KTallguy said:

I know that France won SC2 and US won T4. But Japan and Korea don't play SC2 or T4 as much. Just like they don't play MvC2. If they played it, they'd be better because of the quality of the competition. How many japanese/korean players entered the tournaments for SC2/T4, and how many SC2/T4 tournaments are actually held in Japan? There's a correlation. I know that you say T4 is played in Korea, and I'm sure it is, but not on the level that Tag is.

[/ QUOTE ]

Proof that Asia doesn't ''determine what's competition worthy and what's not'' since Europe and the US still play SC2, T4 and MvC2 (broken games) and organize tourneys for those games despite them not being ''competition worthy'' over there.


[ QUOTE ]
KTallguy said:
The reason they (Asian countries) don't play the games is because they either A: don't like the games because of balance issues, or B: just don't care for the game... T4 is an example of a game that they don't like because of balance issues, and MvC2 is an example of both... at least I think.

[/ QUOTE ]

Further proof that Asia doesn't ''determine what's competition worthy and what's not'' since Europe and the US still play SC2, T4 and MvC2 (broken games) and organize tourneys for those games despite them not being ''competition worthy'' over there.

[ QUOTE ]
KTallguy said:
The US doesn't pick up on VF in general because the US audience doesn't care for it(too hard)

[/ QUOTE ]

That along with : ''VF3tb had a shitty port to the US, and limited arcade exposure... Namco has very good arcade exposure, and good, well advertised ports, that's another reason for the US's preferences.'' In other words, no true effort from SEGA to promote the game and actually get ppl interested in it.

[ QUOTE ]
KTallguy said:
, but since the US in general has less good competition, only very high level players will understand when a game is 'broken', while casual players in the US will go buy SC2 and T4, bang away on their controllers and not know the difference.

[/ QUOTE ]

Everyone knows that T4 is broken (go to TZ and you'll realise that that's VERY OLD news) but not to the point that where it's not tourney worthy. Proof : Evo 2k3, TiT, EC...
Proof that Asia doesn't ''determine what's competition worthy and what's not''.


[ QUOTE ]
KTallguy said:
So basically the interest is split, there are games that Japan and Korea play competitvely, and games that the US and Europe play competitvely

[/ QUOTE ]

<font color="red"> EXACTLY !!!!! </font>



[ QUOTE ]
KTallguy said:
Trust me, if Japanese and Korean players sat down and played T4 and SC2 competitvely, they would have taken all of EVO's prize money back to their respective countries.

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably but that's not the issue. They still do not determine ''what's competition worthy and what's not''. Anyway I don't know why I'm here arguing about this !!! I'll read your reply (if you reply) but consider me out of this thread. Later

 

The tournament players I play with call SC2 plain broke. They also call T4 broke but mostly because of Jin. One interesting thing they said, they play SC2 over T4 because every character is broke instead of just one so it is more balanced. I just don't understand why they want to be hardcore at a broke game. A lot of them are starting to cross over to Evo, I think they're starting to see the light.

It sucks about T4. Just look how the Tekken world is split between T4 and TTT. That would be like half the VF community playing VF3 or VF4 over Evo

 

I don't think you get what I mean by 'competition worthy'. I mean that in the sense that skilled players can play it competitively without glitches/bugs/brokeness to ruin the balance and therefore the fairness of the game.

Lemme make an analogy. Lets say you have 500 people in the world. 50 in the US and 450 in Japan. The US likes kick the can, and plays it to death, and it's very competitive there, but their skills at it are low because they don't have enough people to play against.

Japan plays kick the can too, but because they have so many more people, they find weaknesses in the game and see that it is unfair. So they stop playing the game and move on to baseball, which they play for a long time and find to be a balanced and fun game to play.

The 50 people over here playing Kick the Can can call it the most competition worthy game ever, and think that it's fair and whatnot. But then some random Japanese guy will come out of nowhere and kick everyones ass in the game because he knows how to buck the system and win unfairly.

Basically, what the US and Europe deem 'competition worthy' doesn't matter because there are so few of us and because our overall skill level/dedication to fighting games is lower. EVO 2K3 held a lot of tournaments for games that were broken. Just because they're in a tournament doesn't make them tourny-worthy.

Asia has the largest amount of skilled players in the world, and collectively, they determine what is a fair, balanced, competition worthy game. They've already played everything to death, they know what's balanced, and what's fair.

I usually don't put lots of smilies and crap everwhere when I post, so you might get the impression that I'm trying to be hostile. I'm not! I'm just having a friendly, non flaming debate... not really arguing or anything. We can agree to disagree if you want, but I'm just stating my opinion.

 

[ QUOTE ]
KTallguy said:
Trust me, if Japanese and Korean players sat down and played T4 and SC2 competitvely, they would have taken all of EVO's prize money back to their respective countries.

[/ QUOTE ]Korea was represented by a player (MaddogJin) who plays T4 seriously.

 

T4

<font color="yellow"> Hey K I just bough T4 today and I gotta admitt that so far its better than VF:EVO,is like SC2 without weapons,and about jin ,hes not the best character I find that by the most people on the boards and a litle experience that there arent any overpowerfull characters ,most of them are blanced.</font>

 

Re: T4

Evo2003 T4 Results
1. Jin
2. Jin
3. Jin

 

Re: T4

to each his own...

 

Re: T4

</font> I already finished the game,is so short,Iby the time I beat VF:EVO with one character I already beat T4 5 tiimes with everione.. <font color="yellow">