Sarah's Move List

Re: Back Turned oddities

Nutlog, thanks for your help in clarifying the animation stuff.

Myke, since both you and Nutlog agree that KKK is not a "Force Crouch" move, then I have something to learn. I will study the "Force Crouch" animation for those moves so annotated, and see if I can better discern the difference between it and a normal stagger. My apologies for misinterpreting the onscreen animation, and I thank both of you for teaching me something. I'll get better.

Myke, my recollection from testing last night was that the stagger note for the charged Crush Tornado only showed up in the action box when it hit a croucher, not with a standing defender, so I need to check it again tonight for my personal sense of sanity. The important thing is your explanation that a Guard Stagger is the correct applicable term for the effect, and it gives me another animation type to study more closely.

Myke said: "12. Not sure if I needed to correct something here?"
No. That was the point. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif The VP terminology led me to believe that your note concerning the P+K Sabaki affecting all MK reversal level attacks might have been incorrect. I was just verifying you were right. Yupa might want to correct the VP note though...

 

Re: Back Turned oddities

While you're at the testing with Sarah can you look into the sabaki window for Sarah's "P+K" in flamingo move?

Is it impact related or at a specific point in her kick animation?

 

Re: Back Turned oddities

Just a quick note for now that I'm sure Deniz will find interesting:

The [FL]d+K hit throw can be done to the back of an opponent /versus/images/icons/shocked.gif there's actually a different animation. Sarah grabs the top of her foe's head instead of their wrist. Really cool IMO.

I'll get to the rest of the details above when I have more time and I'm not so tired... keep it coming as you are with threads in this forum Deniz... I promise I'll catch up with your errata notes... =)

 

Re: Back Turned oddities

Dear GOD! This I gotta see. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

 

Re: Back Turned oddities

I have a query, can all of Sarah's Hit throws and Catch throw be performed on an opponent's back, like say after a Guard Crush Sword?

 

Hit Throw Properties

wow what a fantastic thread! great work Deniz. you're an inspiriation to all sarah players heh heh.

i have only a couple of things to add:
the only hit/catch throw that will work on an opponent's back is the [FS]d+K. in fact this throw works in any situation when the opponent is standing and not guarding low, ie, it will work if they're staggering off a wall, if their back is turned, if you hit them in the side (there is no special throw animation for side hits, the opponent just gets "turned" towards you), if you get a mc, MC, whatever.
on the other hand as far as i know the [FS]K+G hit throw will ONLY work against standing opponents (guarding or not). if the opponent is in a MC stagger animation (ie just been bounced off a wall by f+K) then it won't work, if the opponent's back is turned it won't work, and i personally have never been able to get it to work on crouching opponents although i haven't been able to test this since my ps2 is at the shop getting repaired. my instincts tell me it's not possible, however. but if someone could verify this then that would be great.

ok that's it i think. once again thanks for the great information. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

 

Re: Hit Throw Properties

Yupa: You bet I am interested! Can't wait to see it for myself tonight!

Onny: When I was testing Sarah's moves, I could not get the [FS]K+G(hit)P+G throw to work on crouchers, guarding or non-guarding.

 

Re: Hit Throw Properties

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

When I was testing Sarah's moves, I could not get the [FS]K+G(hit)P+G throw to work on crouchers, guarding or non-guarding

<hr></blockquote>

yeah i was thinking about this.. maybe as it makes them stagger (if only for a short time) it doesn't let you perform the throw. does it work if you get a MC?
again, i would test it myself but my ps2 is being chipped.. *only 2 days left to wait woohoo!*

 

Re: Hit Throw Properties

Yet another annoying K+G->P+G property, it knocks down on MC so you can't score the throw. IIRC it also staggers, so you can't do it on crouchers either. d+K,P+G will work just fine against crouchers though (since it hits low).

 

Re: Hit Throw Properties

It's a decent compromise if you ask me. d+K > P+G is faster and will work from any scenario while K+G > P+G is slower but stronger and unblockable in its linear application.

 

Re: Hit Throw Properties

Okay, I apologize, my memory was wrong! The [FS]K+G(hit/guard)P+G throw DOES work on crouchers, guarding or non-guarding. Just did it on both. Back to testing!

Edit: I deeply apologize again for my previous misinformation. I should know better than to rely on memory. Sorry, sorry, sorry. I feel bad...
Further edit: It wasn't just memory. As I reread my posts in this thread, I realized I HAD actually been unable to make it work against crouchers previously, and reported this. But I can do it now. I guess I have just gotten better with practice. I continue my abject apologies.

 

Re: Hit Throw Properties

The [FS]d+K(hit)P+G throw, when it hits from the back, does 35 damage, not just 30! An extra five points of damage. This information, I would think, should be added to the Command List. The [FS]K+G(hit/guard)P+G throw, on the other hand, does no extra damage as a back throw. Nevertheless, the fact that these two throws can be done from the rear and side, I believe should also be noted on the Command List.

 

Re: Hit Throw Properties

the only hit/catch throw that will work on an opponent's back is the [FS]d+K.
As I indicated in the previous post, I can get the K+G hit throw to work from the back. It just is very difficult to do. Sorry for these fragmented replies, but I am running back and forth from testing and writing... Back to the testing...

 

Re: Hit Throw Properties

This would make the Sword Guard Crush [FL]f+K useful in turning opponents around and using the [FL]d+K,P+G on them! Even if they had guarded and a stagger appeared, the throw would still work. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif Problem is that the Sword Guard Crush is slow and coupled by the fact that players will now most likely crouch against Sarah when she is in FL.

 

Re: Hit Throw Properties

1. Okay, now that things have calmed down for me, let me summarize a few things about the hit throws, and make some additional comments:

The Neck Cut Slash works whether or not the opponent is standing or crouching; whether or not the opponent is guarding; and works from the front, side, and back. The damage is always the same, and the animation is essentially the same (to my eyes anyway) regardless of any of these variables. Doing it from the back seems to require different timing, and I have found it difficult (so far) to do this version consistently; but it definitely is doable. The backthrow MAY (I emphasize MAY) be stance dependent -- so far I have only been able to do it from a closed stance (i.e., both characters have the same foot forward).

The Hand Hold Neck Cut can be done from the front, side or back as well. The front and side versions appear to have the same animation, and the damage for both is the same (30). The backthrow has quite different animation, involving a bit of hair pulling, and does damage of 35. More specifically, the damage is 30+5 = 35. To be honest, I only tested the backthrow versus a standing defender; I will test it against crouchers tomorrow, but I expect the same result. The front version does work against non-defending crouchers, but apparently not against guarding crouchers.

2. On to other things as well: The note for Sarah's Hide Side Kick says: "Sabaki vs. HP, HK, MP, ME, MK." First off, I don't think the VFDC lists use ME as a symbol. Isn't it EL? Secondly, the reverse level for Vanessa's Lightning Elbow is listed as HE, but the Hide Side Kick DOES act as a Sabaki against it. Assuming that the reverse level for the Lightning Elbow is correct (which I plan on testing tomorrow), the Hide Side Kick's Sabaki power also apparently works on high elbows. I intend to further test it against all of Vanessa's HE attacks, to make sure the Lightning Elbow is not a special case.

3. A minor discrepancy to be maybe checked: The Grd column for the fully charged Crush Tornado has no number in it, but the VP list seems to indicate it should be -3 for both versions of the Crush Tornado. BTW Myke, in the stat columns, sometimes you use a zero, and sometimes a hyphen -- I assume these are both meant to indicate the same thing?

 

Re: Hit Throw Properties

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

I can get the K+G hit throw to work from the back

<hr></blockquote>ah this is excellent news. must try it out when i get my ps2 back. here's another question; is it possible to get into flamingo when your back is turned? i can't really see any practical purpose for it, but it would be interesting to know.. in theory it shouldn't work because P+K will produce a turnaround P, b+K will produce a turnaround kick, and b+P+K should prove a turnaround attack as well. but you never know.
good luck /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

 

Re: Hit Throw Properties

here's another question; is it possible to get into flamingo when your back is turned?

I can do some experimenting tonight, but I am pretty certain I already attempted this, and there isn't a way to do it voluntarily. I would think that a way it could occur involuntarily is if while Sarah is in Flamingo Stance, an enemy Sarah does a Moonsault over her. That should, I expect, put your Sarah in a backturned Flamingo Stance.

and b+P+K should prove a turnaround attack as well. but you never know.

If you read my older posts in this thread, you'll see I already reported this causes Sarah to turn around and then do a regular Hide Side Kick. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

 

Re: Hit Throw Properties

I've had my back turned in FL a couple times accidentally, but that requires a dodge from my opponent (although it would be good to test: MC dodge, say, Lion's f,f+P, go into FL, and u+P+K... do you end up backturned?). IIRC Sarah can access her normal turnaround moves from FL, but I'm not sure if you can hold G, exit FL and turn around.

 

Re: Hit Throw Properties

As promised, I checked the backthrow version of the Hand Hold Neck Cut against crouchers, and it worked the same as against a standing opponent; I also confirmed that the Hide Side Kick acts as a Sabaki against all of Vanessa's HE attacks.

Interesting thing about the Neck Cut Slash: I haven't been able to get it to work yet against any of Lei's special stances that you can adjust the CPU to use in Free Training mode.

Here's another minor Sarah punch combo tidbit that is probably well known to most VF4 Sarah players, but I don't recall seeing anyone bothering to mention it. If you recall, I pointed out that doing PU+(PPK) gives you PPPu+K, but stopping at the third punch gives you only PPP, not PPu+P. In contrast, if you do B+(PPP), i.e., hold b for all three punches, you do get the PPb+P combo. This might be helpful info when planning a combo.

I found some vaguely interesting, but mostly useless, things concerning Sarah being in a backturned Flamingo Stance, which I will post tomorrow, after I complete my "investigation." But it did call my attention to something else. Several posts ago, in this thread, Myke said:

When you're Back Turned, the following inputs will automatically turn you around without an attack:

- a single tap in any direction

Not quite. A single tap in the f, uf or df direction gives a slight movement step in that direction without turning the character around. Also, tapping u or d causes a turnaround, but it is preceded by a slight movement into/out of the screen.