Ranking VF moves

Re: Revision 1, ranking VF moves.

ya thats what i was thinking certain moves that require a stance aren't THAT great, but then there are moves that require what i like to call a semi-stance, which is what Pai has, they are moves that flow into the stance sorta directly( no definitive PKG to go into stance) which i find more useful because its an attack into a stance, but then there's Aoi's stance and Lei Fei's stance( just off the top of my head) that can be used for defensive purposes and could be considered a move in themselves, no?

 

Re: Revision 1, ranking VF moves.

CreeD,

I think another consideration is whether the attack has a canned followup - especially a delayble one - or if the followup can be mid/low (a rarity in VF4, but it exists like Pai and Lau , Sarah [Flamingo]). Moves like Sarah's and Lau's elbows, Lei Fei's , where the delayable move can lead to decent damage, will have underestimated scores.

I guess a more basic question is how are you going to deal with canned attack strings in general. Pai/Lau is throw counterable on block/normal, but I think Pai and Lau are still considered to be on the offensive when these are blocked/hit (but not ducked), so the recovery is a little misleading. And when you score a move like Aoi's , is the damage potential going to ignore just doing ?

 

Re: Revision 1, ranking VF moves.

Canned followups are tricky - I think the way I'll grade a move is this-
1. Canned combos get their hit level bonuses added together, and that will in a sense be the bonus you could assign to a move for its value in creating mindgames - i.e. a 2 hit mid combo can create an attack-or-throw guessing game on the second hit ... specifically because the second hit is mid. Because my system assigns a bonus for mid moves and no bonus for high moves, the combos that are mid-mid will get better scores than the combos that are mid-high (and therefore risky to toss out)

For execution, recovery, etc each canned series will get the execution of the first hit and the recovery of the third - i.e. PK is treated as a 12 frame attack that does 30 points of damage and has decent recovery, but gets no hit level bonus since it's H/H. I dunno what I should do about combos that are H/H/H - they are inherently bad and risky and simply getting 0 points in the hit level category doesn't really reflect their riskiness. I might need to just assign a fixed penalty to HHH combos.

Finally, each move will get a "canned followups" bonus based on what kind of useful followups can flow from it. The bonus is small if the followup is high/slow/easily stuffed. The bonus is larger is the followup is mid and forces the opponent to guess between attack-or-throw. The bonus is largest if they have mid or low mixups that force the opponent both to guard and to guess which way to guard.

Example: Lau's PPP

Punch by itself - gets a bonus because it can go into a second hit, and the second hit can be high or mid. The mid encourages people to stand after a single jab (or it encourages them to not attack you) and can lead to mid or throw guessing games, so punch by itself gets a pretty good bonus for "canned followups"

PP - gets a small bonus for canned followups, because the followups are both high and counterable and generally aren't that useful by themselves. PP as a move gets only a very small "Canned followups" bonus.

PPP - gets a good "canned followups" bonus because it has damaging high/mid/low followups. Otherwise the move is graded normally, in other words a high score for its 12 frame execution and a low score for its throw counterability, low damage, and H/H/H hit level.