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Politics

Discussion in 'General' started by tonyfamilia, Apr 29, 2008.

  1. Emptyeyes

    Emptyeyes Well-Known Member

    The two party system never really worked in my eyes, because they are fundamentally in favor of big corporations over the people and the environment.

    Trump being the worst environmental president, speaking as a libertarian, he needed to be cut off. The only way for Biden to maintain his position is to appeal to progressive views, which I'm actually for solar energy, clean air, clean water, medicare for all, especially those with pre-existing conditions.

    We also don't need to be the police of the world and I side pro LGBTQ community and pro abortion, but I question the sincerity of the Democrats supporting the minorities.

    It's unfortunate that you have someone like Trump who is such a sore loser, where it's abstract to having everything handed to him where what he obtained in his prime isn't enough. It's rather dismal to live that way always wanting more.
     
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  2. Jason Elbow

    Jason Elbow Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    Its ok now...
    XBL:
    Jason ELBOW AKT
    Its not so much about being telegraphic or unpredictability.. Its more so of, as we say down south, throwing rocks and hiding your hands, and throwing rocks and flipping you off. One thing I can say about Conservatives is that they let you know EXACTLY where you and they stand. There is no guessing. Unabashed and blatant... in all of their racist, elitist, out of touch glory.. I can respect the boldness.. but then you have alot of Liberals assuming just because I'm black, my vote is in the bag and doing absolutely jack shit to earn it of which creates a deceptive air about it .. I have Zero doubt Biden is just as racist, sexist and as much as a homo-intolerant person as Trump is. But where Trump doesn't have to cater, Biden will tap dance his crusty ass to what ever beat drives forward his bottom line. Aint nothing worse then a panderer. They play both sides and will sell their mother to get ahead.
     
  3. Jason Elbow

    Jason Elbow Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    Its ok now...
    XBL:
    Jason ELBOW AKT
    Bernie was the best option.. He called out the fuckery on BOTH sides, wasn't easily cajoled into bullshit and he actually had a cohesive probable plan for Americans.. But Bernie was too much of a independent thinker.. And a independent thinker is hard to control.. so In comes Biden and Kamala.. Biden is docile and idiotic enough to just "go along" with the program and Kamala is heartless, devoid of sympathy and corrupt enough to push forward the agenda..

    Fuck'em Both
    2020....
     
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  4. Jason Elbow

    Jason Elbow Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    Its ok now...
    XBL:
    Jason ELBOW AKT
    And you should question it because they don't give a fuck about the gay community nor minorities. Its all about pandering and getting them votes! Of which became worse because Trump was made to be the ultimate boogeyman... And the Dems played it soo well.. They literally had these dumbass people working overtime to bring them the votes.. Its amazing what a little fear can do...lol
     
  5. Ellis

    Ellis Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    Ellis_Cake
    Thats just what i meant; Biden is no stormlord, it's not what you ultimatel need. But you got rid of trump, which put stuff way backwards.

    Its a step forward, but the fights not over, right?!

    Sweden crosses her fingers for ya'all'ies!
     
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  6. Sebo

    Sebo Well-Known Member Content Manager Taka Content Manager Jeffry

    PSN:
    Sebopants
    Considering that capitalists will (with possibly few exceptions historically) always side with increasing profits over their workers and the environment out of fear of being bought up by the competition, you would require a lot of regulation/subsidies.

    With a Medicare for All system, you'd be eliminating "consumer choice."

    Now, I'm totally okay with that (I'd prefer if these policies go way further), but I'm curious about labeling yourself as a libertarian.

    This really depends. Your cynicism is justified, but it's a very static view of the world that can depoliticize and disempower one from seeing change being possible. And it also ignores that there is a battle brewing within the democratic party (the old guard like Pelsoi/Schumer, pieces of shit, old and good progressives like Barbara Lee and new comers AOC, Ilhan Omar, Permila Jayapal, etc. who aren't perfect [who is?] but a big step in the better direction). Both sides (mostly) suck because they're both right-wing parties, it's just one of them allows for space for us to

    The reason why Bernie was the best option and had massive support among the grassroots (even my broke ass donated to him) was his policies. Speaking of which: what policies do you want to see? What kind of society do you want to help build?

    This is nuanced, I mean it was Biden who pushed Obama to support Gay Marriage. I mean a person can be a piece of shit (see Biden's history), but they can also have a few good beliefs. Like Dick Cheney is an evil piece of shit, but can't knock him for seeing his Lesbian daughter a human. It's a low bar, but it's disingenuous to assume

    And the boogeyman did come, with a 6 to 3 court we can see the repeal of lot of the gains. And the Trump Administration already did a lot of damage to the lgbtq+ community.

    On minority rights (whether PoC/LQBTQ+) and the democrats being shitty, again, it isn't the whole party, it's the cynicism of the leadership, who are confident that because the Republicans are worse on all the policies and are openly bigoted toward minorities and women, that they will automatically earn the votes from these groups of people so they don't care about pushing progressive policies. This strategy fell apart again.

    But what are our options to making a better society? Sitting on the sidelines won't get anything done. We're in an era with the largest civil uprising in the history of the USA, and we (working people) do have people on our side inserting themselves into the Democratic party. Uprising without political education is useless, and leadership without the backing of the people is weak. Since revolution isn't on the table (yet, and it's up to us to educate, organize, and steer conditions toward that) our most obvious route is to continue to elect activists who can cause a rupture within the Democratic party.
    *again, that's not the only option, but others are topic for a different discussion

    Correct in some regards. Domestically, yeah, this is a layup. The question is, how bad the Democrats and the Biden Administration fumble this shit (which can benefit either the right wing or if we're organized: the progressive and further left people).

    The disagreement I would have is nuanced as it isn't all necessarily all bad or good.

    Like to give Trump a little praise, being open to discussions with the divided Koreas was good, and throwing out Bolton (though he hired him, lol) because he wanted to go to war with everyone like a typical NeoCon. And I fear the Democrats would prefer a more warlike stance, as seen with their anti-China rehotric, open support of the Coups (attempts) in Venezuela/Bolivia/insert name of place with the resources corporations want. Democrats don't push against the military industrial complex but empower it and make it more effective.

    And again, to be fair, while Obama's foreign policy was shit as well, opening relations toward Cuba was good, and the Iran Deal was definitely better than trying to starve them through sanctions.
     
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  7. Emptyeyes

    Emptyeyes Well-Known Member

    Hello Sebo, what do you wish to know about me being labeled as libertarian? I guess I lean a little more toward it than the green party, though green seems nicer and more strict on morality. As I think about it, I'm more of a hybrid or just open to alternatives that can improve the well being of our people.
     
    Sebo likes this.
  8. Sebo

    Sebo Well-Known Member Content Manager Taka Content Manager Jeffry

    PSN:
    Sebopants
    I only ask because the positions you're for sound like a good plan and indicates empathy for people and the environment. In the 16+ years of my talks/debates with people who describe themselves a libertarian (no regulation because markets know best) or the massive number of debates that I've seen, your concern about corporations being favored too heavily by our government is something I can't recall hearing by someone that actually adheres to free-market fundamentalists.

    And the way you would get more green energy (and in conjunction with lowering fossil fuels) as well as bring about a Medicare for All system could only happen through lots of regulation/government intervention which, again, is something advocated by Social Democrats (i.e. capitalism regulated for the benefit of society).
     
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  9. Emptyeyes

    Emptyeyes Well-Known Member

    I've been thinking about the police, but I don't put much stock on this subject, considering what they were intended for in primitive times.

    I guess there will come a much darker era when things escalate beyond the state of no return, where we would have to rely on ourselves to apply our own personal justice.

    I'm also anti gun personally, but I understand the corrupt will try harder to get ahold of other weapons to have their way. Though, part of me still believe that guns are too convenient to kill someone with it. I'm in favor of the primitive era for self defense.
     
  10. Sebo

    Sebo Well-Known Member Content Manager Taka Content Manager Jeffry

    PSN:
    Sebopants
    Can you expand on darker/primitive times? I don't understand what you mean.


    Well, that's a good position and it's better to be realistic about using/owning guns, as the people who do own the most guns (especially in the American context) are usually not the people we'd entrust acting in the best interest of society as opposed to defending their ideology of property being worth more than human life.

    ----
    *Not to Bandlie

    Speaking of ideology valuing property over life, when is the reason for this thread being resurrected again going to engage in the "marketplace of ideas?" Or will he dodge engagement again, and then frame any future criticism of his need to defend the word "conservatism" with debate nerd appeals of logical fallacies while being incapable of demonstrating how his ideas actually exist in the world while not tied to some of the worst people alive now and throughout history.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2020
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  11. Emptyeyes

    Emptyeyes Well-Known Member

    What i meant from the primitive times is that one of the historical parts of the society from America to the forging of early policing, was through slavery institution and to control minorities. So, I don't look at law enforcement in a good light, because it's kind of iffy to turn something into a positive, when it was originally for something negative. Especially considering how this year has been with BLM.

    I do support the concept of it and that all lives should be held as a high regard also, unless if that life is a threat to the lives of others. The deep rotted problems among my community, roughly 60% of us in the US of our crime rate should also be addressed, and be treated with the upmost care that, leaving a little optimism here, the issues should be corrected in due time through a better resource of guidance. It's rather a complex issue.

    A much darker era is from my pessimism on where the direction this world is going. It always seemed to be in our nature to stir up and escalate conflict that will ultimately lead to the final days of our suffering and demise, which I feel is from our predispositioned diversity and differences. I would like to be wrong about this, I fear what is in store for our future.
     
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  12. whitegrass

    whitegrass Active Member

  13. whitegrass

    whitegrass Active Member

    Jason Elbow likes this.
  14. Emptyeyes

    Emptyeyes Well-Known Member

    I'll keep this very limited. I've watched it and I still stand by what I've said about the hindrance of having a two party system. It's nothing what I haven't heard before. Not that it matters, but Trump had repeatedly said that he was racist in the past from the likes of CNN and the final presidential debate , but to a lesser extent compared to everyone else's racism. That's something that you shouldn't admit to.

    The one thing that Republicans brought on themselves is their religious liberty, by putting their faith in politics, which caught up with them over the years. Trump actually wanted employees to allow discrimination against lgbtq people, but that's to be expected. As someone who is bisexual, it's one of reasons why I think he deserves his loss, not that I'm comfortable with Biden either.

    So, I would admit my bias and state that this country should move away from religion and if that's one of the reasons why there is hate and bitterness against the GOP from the censorship of Republicans, then they've brought on themselves. Religion as a whole caused too much pain.

    True communism never existed, because you would need to make an good honest system to match the hearts of the good and selfless, which is what we're not. We merely try to be, which is the reason why it can't be properly implemented.

    The USA was never a free country, when it was built off of lies. Take that however you like.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2020
  15. whitegrass

    whitegrass Active Member

    thanks for watched the videos and leave comment. I like to learn different point of view from everyone.
    Discrimination against people( in any form) is bad for all society but exists in almost every country . Some( or many) bad luck people may experience discrimination since their early stage of life , from family or school.
    In fact , Discrimination exists everywhere in the world not because someone allow it, even you have death sentence to punish people acting discrimination still cannot vanish it. Laws and Rules can only limit someone's behavior but not able to modify their mind.
    If I aware my boss or workmate are bad person, I can CHOOSE to stay working with them or not. I feel lucky they expose their true nature to me without hiding.

    Mass Media change their opinion time to time

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=HA2DWMHgLnc conclusion of this "XiNN" video start at 6:05 ?

    people just ask for a fair election.

    It's a taboo for a politician show not enough mercy to refugee or illegal immigrant, media won't hesitate label you "racist". Kind person or leader need o have sympathy but also think logical. Avoid being label "racist" will restrict your logical judgment.

    Is this real situation of Sweden ? and Trumps want to avoid it happen in future
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...es-migrant-mafia-gangs-terrorise-country.html
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2020
  16. whitegrass

    whitegrass Active Member

    Last edited: Nov 18, 2020
  17. whitegrass

    whitegrass Active Member

    Hope you guys will share your comment again after finish watching this interview video with
    "BLM supporter also supports Trump"

    BLM支持者もトランプ大統領支持!?凄い経歴の持ち主の子に話を聞いてみました。
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gngg2Lf4Ujk

     
  18. Sebo

    Sebo Well-Known Member Content Manager Taka Content Manager Jeffry

    PSN:
    Sebopants
    @whitegrass What polices of Trumps do you support? What kind of world do you want to live in? Just give me a handful of examples how you could get there.

    And beside the dog whistles in the post featuring Sweden, you're too caught up in the mainstream political discourse. If you find yourself aligning with either corporate funded party, you're wasting your time. I can understand that in fucked up times some people need some kind of comfort, but Trump ain't it.

    And you can spam random interviews of random people here or in the shoutbox, it doesn't do anything other than show how depoliticized/ignorant people are.
     

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  19. whitegrass

    whitegrass Active Member

    I never said I support Trumps , I just see I large group of people hating someone without reasonable argument. I would say Trumps do foolish decision on the China virus outbreak, really bad. All other allegations? don't tell me like this https://edition.cnn.com/2017/05/11/politics/trump-time-magazine-ice-cream/index.html

    What policies of Trumps you don't support? Reason is the most important.
    Have you even finished watching at least one video from I post ?
    the video do mention why people supporting Trumps and this one I totally agree with www.youtube.com/watch?v=R42NFIv3ntw

    You can disagree with it without a reason or call it fake. just Dislike it.
    I understand I should not post it shoutout box, I will not post anything in future at this website.

    I do feel sad the election expose America losing it's freedom of speech and the horrible media manipulation.

    I do hope everyone have better future and thanks for enduring my posts and let me share / express the message I hope people to understand, it's fine if I am wrong, everyone can be my teacher.

    Bye
     
  20. Sebo

    Sebo Well-Known Member Content Manager Taka Content Manager Jeffry

    PSN:
    Sebopants
    "Oh no, these people are talking shit on this mass murderer, time to post videos of idiot supporters whose ignorance is leaking through my computer screen."

    And no, don't backpedal with that nonsense. You say people don't have a reasonable argument, but you've dodged so many questions I've asked of you here and in the shoutbox.

    The covid should be a damning enough of a reason not to carry water for the prick.


    I made an incomplete list back in February, which definitely could use a update to include more from this shit-show of a year.




    I've watched several minutes into each one. What am I supposed to learn from watching it? That the average American doesn't know shit from a candy bar?

    They're not fake, I've been aware of the sheer ignorance of my fellow countrymen for decades.

    Bruh, you haven't been paying attention much. America has never been free, and "freedom of speech" has been reduced to a hollow buzzword by the right-wing. And media manipulation? That's not new either at all. Maybe we can agree to break up the media conglomerates?

    What?
     
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