Politics

I no rite!

kotaku suxxorz

 

Yikes, I have come a long way from these shit takes.

Having now worked over 2 decades in two different countries, your cynicism is dumb and that edge-lord stance is just a plagiarized Maddox post. Serving people and the community is awesome and should be the primary drive of us as a communal species. You should complain about how much you're being compensated for your labor, start a union instead, and radicalize your coworkers.

Eh, your attempts at "humor" are stupid and attempt at getting a rise out of anyone fell flat. Actually state what you believe in a way you can defend it or don't say shit like this.

Nice analysis, dumbass. If only the right-wing was correct and US schools actually taught subjects from a Marxist lens. The major problems aren't people having "too many kids" by any stretch of the imagination.

We can already. The problem isn't "overpopulation," is misappropriation of resources, we already to have the capacity to produce 1.4X the food necessary to feed the entire world's population, the issue lies with markets. We have the capacity to educate, house, and give health care as well as socially necessary work for every person as well.

While the numbers we different back when I posted that, as it stands now, the level of wealth inequality is fucking bonkers.

But this stance that I had is the combination of some weird ass combination of anarchist/anprim nonsense mixed in with mainstream neoliberal ideology that either doesn't understand the poisonous effects of competition/marketization or sees it as natural and positive.

Way to miss the big picture.

If you get your ideas from watching comedians instead of reading theory and following world events... uh, stop? And do those two other things.

Okay, some correct points: Ron Paul is more than just a little loony and Bernie Sanders should run for president (nice call back in 2011). Granted, Bernie would be the furthest to the right candidate you'd ever support with a troubling foreign policy record.

 

I legit forgot we had this thread.

 

@Sebo are you okay, do you need a hug? that some AA step 4 level shit right up there.

 

Since when did this thread exist.
And I respect the self-reflection @Sebo

 

Just correcting shit that was wrong.

Though, I'd really would like to know if Unsafe_Dan is still a climate denier and a libertarian. lol

Also, I miss Tony and Happy_friend's posts.

Also relevant (sans the anarcho bit):

 

I didn't even know this topic existed, until someone found it and bumped it up. But that kool aid talk though.

 

Lol cool aide indickates cult

 

Kool Aid cult?! Aaahhhh! Run!!

 

content-free bump! lol

 

Your biden might not be the stormlord you need, but atleast you got rid of 10kyu trump!
WTG from Sweden! ^^

 

It's accurate, so yes.

 

This is correct, especially in a country as propagandized as the United States. People who recoil at just the mere mention of "socialism," "communism," "anarchism" either 1. don't understand anything about these ideas and/or 2. are part of a privileged class who view bringing about equality is an attack on their status (put a pin on point #2, it will be relevant later). If the people in group #1 actually knew what common ownership of the means of production would entail, expansion of the commons, and replacing bourgeoisie individualism/consumption with community and mutual aid and their class position isn't threatened (#2), they wouldn't have such antipathy (citation: the people who flourished under socialistic [nominally or otherwise] governments/societies like my family and other people I know).

However, that above quote was in context to the recent election and how the democrats lost footing in the House of Representatives and failed to win a majority in the Senate. The reason for this is that (Libertine will bristle at this "incorrect" usage of the word he wants to claim to be the keeper of the true definition of) conservatives in the Democratic Party don't want to upset their meal card from corporations and actually fight for policies that would benefit the working class. But that's the thing: the candidates that supported Medicare for All won their races, those that ran as "Republican-lite" lost. And the only thing that can guarantee a victory for the Dems is if they push for and announce their policies (and they're progressive), that's how Biden could lose Florida, but they still voted for a minimum wage increase of $15. That was in his platform (and definitely not in the Republican party's), but the Dems ran on a "orange man bad" like 2016 instead of centering how they want to help people and it's why PoC numbers this election were the highest for Repbulicans since before the Civil Rights Act.

One, that's a false assumption that I "don't ever" engage, and I did try to engage with your ideas (as I am now):

From this thread: https://virtuafighter.com/threads/should-president-trump-be-impeached-and-removed.21334/page-4

You never responded. And all I can glean from your special brand of "conservatism" is contextual: you don't Like Trump, "forgiveness weighs in much on my(your) conservatism," you don't understand how people got upset about the Moynihan Report and his thesis about how interruption(s) in the nuclear family caused persistent poverty among American blacks (which is another can of worms), you maybe like free trade (?), you like to quote monger the American Constitution, like every white conservative I've discussed white supremacy with recoiled into a text-wall, and you're wed to the word "conservatism" so bad that you want to rehabilitate so it means something you haven't defined.

Depending on what tradition of we're talking about conservatism, it can mean conserving the status quo, "state's rights" in the context of allowing for slavery, repression of unions for the benefit for the bosses, forcing religious beliefs on others, a reaction to social progress and wanting to return to the good old days of X group of people, supposed supporting of markets and a society that only exist on a white supremacist system of colonialism/neo-colonism (though I'd call this a trait of economic liberalism), etc.

I'm only engaging with the conservatism I know, and it overlaps with hardcore bigots, social austerity programs/neo-liberalism, siding with oppressive coup governments, waged genocides on entire peoples, enforcing slavery, and are made up of the propertied classes. I asked for your definition before and I'm engaging now: what is conservatism to you? And from an optics stand point: why would you want to refer to yourself with such considering the heavy baggage that is associated with the word?

You can list the number of fallacies that I'm partaking in, or frame an argument by comparing me to Trump, but I've tried to engage in good faith, and I still want to understand what the hell is this forbidden brand of "conservatism" is.

No you're making an assumption, I totally can. Studying contemporary American political ideologies and historical socialist states are one of my hobbies (again, it's incumbent on you to define your terms). The issue is you're trying to put Trump into some amorphous blob to the side as if he should be the main focus and not a representative of your yet to be defined "conservatism." Trump isn't the disease: he's the result of decades of conservative talk radio, white rage/anxieties, and conservative policies that have been pulling the Overton Window so far to the right that most Democrats are rhetorically and practically at Ronald Reagan levels.

Also I think I'm detecting some Jordan Peterson, clean your room bucko! (could be wrong)

But for conservatism that is separate from Trump (a small minority at this rate), what distinguishes their policies from modern Republicans? Who would you state is a paragon of this vaunted brand of conservatism? You can say I "can't separate ideology from party" but it bears repeating: that's for you to do.

And also this is problematic: because trying to separate Trump from "Conservatives" is what the Democrats are doing, and it's gonna prevent any meaningful change for the working class.

Wut? We're totally agree that Trump sucks. That's just the topic you want to discuss, and we're working off different ontologies.

But on being "divisive," and? We've already tried the idealistic ideologies of feudalism/conservatism/liberalism/etc. what it got us was settler-colonialism, anti-blackness, markets over people, and a rapidly heating atmosphere that will doom civilization as we know it. I can come to agreement on the 1mm low bar of Trump being a piece of shit who needs to rot in prison, but I won't agree to "finding balance" between two right-wing parties or ideologies that are antithetical to humans and the ecosystem thriving.

Just like I might suffer from only understanding the colloquial definition of "conservatism" you show that you suffer the same for the term "fascism," which has always been birthed out of reaction, partnered with conservatism/the national bourgeoisie, with nationalism, racism, and conservatism (religious/gender roles).

My avatars in order were/are: Thomas Sankara, Ho Chi Minh, and currently Fidel Castro. All of whom were anti-colonial fighters, beloved by their own people and others around the world, and known for their stances against racism and for international solidarity. And under the government they were figureheads of brought increased literacy rates, treated women as equals, elimination of houselessness, universal healthcare, and ended the exploitation foisted upon them by colonizers and their markets. Not perfect/without flaws, but great examples of leadership and integrity whose examples are seen as models in the de-colonial movements from history and millions of people now. And of course this all goes beyond the liberal "great man theory" because with those leaders (like all) relied on the power of the masses that supported them.

To go more on Fidel specifically and the slanders against him: that's the view you get from former plantation owners who had their land expropriated and their property take out of bondage (i.e. the black Cubans). It's fair to say that most Cubans (here's that pin from early) in Florida are descendants of propertied class in Cuban that benefited from exploitation and white supremacy and it was Fidel and the people of Cuba who desegregated their country and this made those Gusanos mad. And I don't know about you, but I don't shed a tear for slave owners complaining how they used to run the show, or for that matter the corrupt police/torturers of the Batista Regime, fuck them. And all whose entire way of life is based on exploitation.

And those Gusanos don't give a shit about Cuba, that why most of them support the inhumane embargo that keeps them in poverty (yet their healthcare system, life expectancy is higher, infant mortality is lower, zero homeless children, and higher literacy rates than the US just to name a few accomplishments). Also how they send doctors around the world during natural disasters and troops to Angola during their anti-colonial conflict... top tier good shit.

Spoiler: Whole context for those who want to waste time:

Wednesday at 4:35 PM -Libertine:
Tonight is stressful for me; I don't like either of these guys running for election.

Wednesday at 4:36 PM -Libertine:
I only know who I want to win less.

Wednesday at 8:54 AM - Jason Elbow:
Likewise Lib. Although its not as stressful as it is interesting. But I definitely don't want Biden to win. Trump is the devil we know. Aint no telling wat Biden has in store for America...

Wednesday at 10:30 AM - Griever:
I agree that both of them are far from ideal. I can't possibly tolerate someone who supports a person so openly horrible as Trump. JFC, the devil we know? Disgusting.

Thursday at 6:00 PM - Libertine:
Hi Myke.

Thursday at 6:09 PM - Libertine:
It might be tomorrow until we know who won.

Thursday at 6:13 PM - Jason Elbow:
I never said I'm for Trump. Move your feelings out of the way long enough to actually read what I typed. Griever..

Thursday at 6:14 PM -Libertine:
Yeah, and I'm on the side of Biden winning, though I would never vote for him.

Thursday at 6:15 PM -Jason Elbow:
I just mentioned Trump is the devil we know.. that it. If you actually did homework on Biden and Harris and you would realize they hate blacks more than even Trump probably does.

Thursday at 6:19 PM -Jason Elbow:
I actually took my own advice and read what you typed. That is a real good question.

Thursday at 6:20 PM - Libertine:
Anyway, I thought that this was a nice article from a conservative: https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/american-racism-weve-got-so-very

Thursday at 6:22 PM -Jason Elbow:
Racism will never stop. But the effects can be diminish through a more even playing field.

Thursday at 6:23 PM -Jason Elbow:
For it to fully die out, the old money and influence will have to die out.

Thursday at 6:24 PM - Jason Elbow:
which means it will happen with our children's children.

Thursday at 6:24 PM -Libertine:
Poverty is one of the biggest factors; those who are poor tend to raise a poor generation.

Thursday at 6:25 PM - Jason Elbow:
Poverty is the main factor.

Thursday at 6:25 PM -Libertine:
It has its roots in slavery.

Thursday at 6:25 PM - Jason Elbow:
soo many hurdles stems from poverty.

Thursday at 6:26 PM -Libertine:
I don't know why some people get offended over the Moynihan Report. From what I've read about it, it seems reasonable.

Thursday at 6:26 PM -Jason Elbow:
Yes. And its like we are still swinging from the trees..

Thursday at 6:26 PM - Jason Elbow:
what is that?

Thursday at 6:27 PM -Libertine:
You could probably find it through a search engine. It goes back to the Johnson Administration.

Thursday at 6:27 PM - Libertine:
It's a report by a sociologist named Patrick Moynihan who said that an interruption in the nuclear family caused persistent poverty among American blacks.

Thursday at 6:28 PM -Jason Elbow:
Thats not offensive. Thats truth.

Thursday at 6:29 PM -Libertine:
Guys like Al Sharpton said that it was "blaming the victim."

Thursday at 6:29 PM -Libertine:
I didn't think that it was blaming anyone; I thought that it was descriptive. The lingering effects of slavery are to blame, if anything.

Thursday at 6:31 PM - Jason Elbow:
now Im hearing that Trump got a huge amount of the Cuban vote because he managed to attached socialism with the democratic party, playing on their fears of What Fidel Castro wrought..

Thursday at 6:32 PM -Libertine:
I read that he got the most non-white votes for a Republican since 1960.

Thursday at 6:33 PM -Jason Elbow:
you can't take anything that snake ass finessing ass guy say. He is a horrible example from the Black community.

Thursday at 6:33 PM -Libertine:
Like Don King?

Thursday at 6:33 PM - Jason Elbow:
Worse then Don.

Thursday at 6:34 PM -Jason Elbow:
he make Don look like a saint..

Thursday at 6:34 PM -Libertine:
I heard that King got only 10 years in prison or something like that for murdering someone who owned him $600.

Thursday at 6:35 PM - Jason Elbow:
Sharpton was a pimp and he sold drugs. Was a FBI informant and had dealings with the Italian Mafia.

Thursday at 6:36 PM -Jason Elbow:
Sharpton hates the Jews. Lol. He hates the amount of money they get and their connections.

Thursday at 6:37 PM - Jason Elbow:
Yeah King did kill someone and did 10.

Thursday at 6:37 PM - Libertine:
As far as this election goes, I read that Republicans are winning a lot of House seats, so if Biden wins, then we might have some balance in the government.

Thursday at 6:38 PM - Jason Elbow:
I learn more about Sharpton and Jessie Jackson when I got older. Both of them are frauds.

Thursday at 6:40 PM -Jason Elbow:
You mean how Don fucked him with no lube or a rubber? Lol

Thursday at 6:40 PM - Libertine:
I think Don took 80 million dollars or something from him.

Thursday at 6:41 PM - Jason Elbow:
That Rape was a bitch Crying Wolf and his wife was fucking dudes behind his back and was a gold digger. It was unfortunate but warranted.

Thursday at 6:41 PM -Jason Elbow:
Mike caught a young Brad Pitt piping down his wife. This was before he really became famous of course. Lol

Thursday at 6:44 PM -Jason Elbow:
Mike ain't nothing to slouch tho

Thursday at 6:48 PM - Jason Elbow:
I thought I heard Roy backed down tho?

Thursday at 7:36 PM -Ellis:
Presidents are a bad idea. biden is safer for your usa then trump by a longshot. errything is chaos. democrachy is important. Be kind, be safe. Ur all welcome ˆˆ

Thursday at 7:39 PM -Ellis:
I wish you 4 years without more abare and lag-switching against the people <3

Thursday at 7:40 PM - Ellis:
Black Lives Matter. Healthcare Matters.

Thursday at 7:44 PM -Libertine:
I'm a conservative, and I find nothing conservative about Trump.

Thursday at 7:45 PM - Libertine:
At least Biden would probably work towards fixing the economy after Trump's tarriffs.

Thursday at 7:46 PM -Libertine:
Free trade has been a conservative stance, at least in America. I can't think of any reason for why Trump got out of the TPP other than "Obama did it."

Thursday at 7:47 PM - Ellis:
I don't lean conservative, but i also agree that trump doesn't really stand for your ground stances yeah.

Thursday at 7:48 PM -Ellis:
But then again, the nomra"right" in sweden

Thursday at 7:48 PM - Ellis:
*The "normal right" in sweden is closer to the USA democrats.

Thursday at 7:49 PM - Libertine:
American conservatives were never conservatives; they're progressives, their history dating back to the Whigs.

Friday at 4:45 PM - Libertine:
It's hard to know who will win, but Republicans gained in the House.

Friday at 4:46 PM - Libertine:
The lesson: Never say "Socialism".

Sunday at 10:10 AM - Sebo:
"American conservatives were never conservatives; they're progressives, their history dating back to the Whigs." Wut?

Sunday at 10:12 AM - Sebo:
" I'm a conservative, and I find nothing conservative about Trump." I mean, maintaining white supremacy is pretty conservative, as is denying women autonomy over their bodies, or legislating who people can legally be in relationships with.

Yesterday at 7:21 PM -Libertine:
Straw men, ad hominem, poisoning the well, appeals to ridicule, reductionism, and general ignorance is pretty typical of you.

Yesterday at 7:23 PM -Libertine:
Why don't you ever try engaging people with different ideas instead of berating them? You're just like Trump, but instead of trying to "own the libs", you want to "own the conservatives".

Yesterday at 7:24 PM - Libertine:
I mean, we can't even come together when we both agree on something like Trump being an incompetent leader? You're intentionally nasty and divisive... just like Trump.

Yesterday at 7:32 PM - Libertine:
By the way, since you went through my comments, did you even read the article I posted in the Shout Box earlier by David French, a conservative, regarding racism? https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/american-racism-weve-got-so-very


Yesterday at 7:34 PM -Libertine:
Who wants to maintain white supremacy? Keep making straw men to burn and to feel proud of yourself; those who already agree with you are the only people whom you will ever convince.

Yesterday at 12:17 AM -MadeManG74:
https://virtuafighter.com/threads/politics.12727/page-38


Yesterday at 12:18 AM -[ MadeManG74:
Let's track this political debate for future generations, lads

2:35 PM -Sebo:
Ah yes, the "my conservatism that exists only in theory" yet always historically gets "co-opted" be literal fascists. Keep changing definitions all you like, markets will be the end of a sustainable ecosystem.

2:41 PM -Sebo:
And no, leak crocodile tears all you want about me "being like Trump" despite your ideology empowers the propertied classes, and cite all the obscure blogs you like of single voices calling out rascism that's foundational to America: who was it that was against interracical marriages?

4:27 PM - Libertine:
You are unable to separate ideology from party. There was, and is, a movement within American conservatism to separate themselves from Trump, just as there's a movement from within liberalism to separate themselves from postmodernism.

4:28 PM -Libertine:
Who says that I have changed definitions? There are no left-wing fascists? Really? Why don't you check your avatars?

4:30 PM - Libertine:
Also, I have no control over what gets "co-opted", so this is a red herring.

4:32 PM - Libertine:
How do you even know how I feel about the relationship between markets and our ecosystem? You make assumptions as far as my "ideology", all according to your gut feelings.

4:33 PM -Libertine:
Also, you might want to look into miscegenation laws. They were never established at common law, and not all "conservative" slave states wanted them (e.g., New Mexico, with a repeal prior to Loving).

4:35 PM -Libertine:
Miscegenation laws stemmed from the slave trade, which I think originated in the Spanish Empire in the 15th century. You don't think that conservatism existed before then?

4:37 PM Libertine
How would even know what an "obscure blog" is? Are you telling me that you actually seek out conservative sites and read what their opinions are instead of making straw men?

5:55 PM - Libertine:
One last thing before I go: my miscegenation point was irrelevant, but rather than to delete it, I thought that it would be better to keep it and to admit to it. The only thing that matters is whether or not any label - liberal, conservative, etc. - is defined by the people who call themselves by them or if there's a standard that exists outside of them. For example, there are Christians...

5:57 PM - Libertine:
...and then there are people who call themselves Christians and then who lower their standards on fornication and adultery in order to justify their association with Trump. I don't think that slavery, anti-miscegenation, etc. has anything to do with being a liberal or a conservative, but that's a discussion that is too long in which to engage here (even for me).

 

Sebo:
"he'll be gone soon," But will Trumpism go away, or the conditions that made him possible change? If anything we're entering a more dangerous era.
Sebo:
7:04 AM - whitegrass:
why you guys call Trump racist ?
7:06 AM - whitegrass:
media feed their "opinions" to people, those not all are facts.
7:22 AM - whitegrass:
who's watching the Former Deputy FBI Director Andrew McCabe testifies before Senate on youtube ?
7:24 AM - whitegrass:
Andrew McCabe seems like a liar
Sebo:
I think with all the evidence that's available, it's incumbent of you to prove how he (Trump) isn't racist.
Sebo:
Also anyone who would be appointed to the FBI would be liar: they're cops. It's their job to lie.
7:39 AM - whitegrass:
How many people here old enough to know Trump's friendship with Michael Jackson?
Sebo:
How is that even relevant? The wealthy belong to a different class and they all go to similar functions. If anything, Trump and Jackson being friends might have more to do with the allegations of them being child rapists.
Sebo:
Besides, the "how can he be racist? he's got a black for a friend" defense is so trite.
Sebo:
Explain why he went after the Central Park 5.
Also, did the media make up that Stephen Miller is in his cabinet?
Sebo:
I copied pasted this for the politics thread, so i think the discussion would be better served there.
whitegrass:
Don't listen too much story , after FBI invesgations , FBI found no evidence and he's never been to Jail?
Sebo:
Um... what?
whitegrass:
www.facebook.com/597069817104140/posts/2162870530524053/
Sebo:
Okay... I think need you more of an argument than a Tik Tok that we can't even verify the accuracy of. You still haven't responded: I think with all the evidence that's available, it's incumbent of you to prove how he (Trump) isn't racist.
Sebo:
Also, what policies of his do you support and why?
Sebo:
Also, we should move this discussion here: https://virtuafighter.com/threads/politics.12727/page-38
/place holder for potential discussion

 

Lil bitch

 

If you think we are in the clear you are sadly mistaken. We just traded The Joker for The Penguin..

 

Agreed. However, following that analogy, who would you rather be fighting against? An opponent that in unpredictable or one whose plans that are telegraphed because we know more about his strategy?

As long as the social movements keep pushing and we keep the assholes away from brunch we can actually get shit done.