Politics

I agree with you here - especially the part in bold.

 

And now you are degrading every single christian into being a brainless blob of fear who cower at the idea that God might strike them with lighting should they allow gay marriage.
I'm not sure if I should take offense to that. Or if I should just laugh it off. Or that I should cry because most likely 90% of christians are just that...
Bah.

In any case, Gay relationships are not just immoral but are pretty unhealthy as well. Look at the huge number of HIV infections in the gay community. How many of them have sex parties in local parks. Hell, here in the netherlands its even in the news that a couple of em infected other gay people with HIV infected blood on purpose.
But what annoys me the most is that those faggots have to scream that they are being treated unfairly at every turn. Keep those huge gay festivals (in amsterdam) and are being in general obnoxious about their own sexuality.
Gay people: Stop that. I don't want to know! Keep it to yourself! I'm not screaming in the media at every possibility that presents itself that i'm hetero either now do I?

 

Yeah, that last post of mine could be interpreted as a blanket statement. My apologies. I don't think every religious person is like that.

Let me use your sentence now...

And now you are degrading every gay into being a publicly promiscuous orgy-monger who revel at the idea that people will see them and get all squeamish.

<span style='font-size: 8pt'>Not every gay person prances about in gay pride parades with the intent to annoy you.</span>


If you love a member of the opposite sex and your emotions just burn for them - please realize that people of the same sex can love and desire each other just as deeply. Is that really immoral? Proposition 8 (California, USA) seeks to prevent average people from getting married because they are the same sex. These weddings could be as private or public as any other marriage. They could be two people in love who go to work everyday, keep their heads down, don't draw unneeded attention, and just want to share the same bond as people born straight.

 

i don't ever really get into these arguements, but here goes. The bible was written by the hand of man, regardless its inspiration. I beleive that some things in the bible that seem irrational or like they make little sense may stem from this. I think homosexuality is a prime example. Why do i think this? I look at the attraction i have to women, the way their body affects me, the way i can look at a beautiful woman and desire to kiss her, to hold her, to be held by her, to share certain things with her. Here's where i am going with this. I did not choose to be heterosexual. These things were not conscience decisions and i could not simply choose to feel this way about other men! No matter how hard i tried, even if i wanted to, i could not draw these emotions from another man. No matter how wonderful and goodlooking a man is, i will never wish to be in his arms, or kissing his neck, etc. In fact, i find the thought of that revolting.
Therefore, when there are gay men and women who feel this way but in reverse. How can i judge them for that. Much less say it makes them somehow less than me. I don't believe it some conscience choice they make, or have any control over. If there is an all powerful god, how could that god judge those he created in this light?
Even giving the vague assumption religion is true and is a reality. I believe that parts of the bible that point to such indescrepencies and discrimination stem from man. I believe whoever wrote that book or that verse or whatever, decided to himself 'i do not like homosexuality' and then wrote it as part of the bible, and that that line, was never spoken or inspired by god, but by the pettiness of man.
Food for thought. If the bible was written in the 1940's and revered as the ironclad law of god 1000's of years from then, the bible would very likely, clearly state that "african americansare inferior to whites". And it word probably use the N-word to say this. And it would not be from the inspiration of god, but from the pettiness of man! All it would take would be for one man to write that one thought of his own, in the midst of all his divine inspiration.

 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If there is an all powerful god, how could that god judge those he created in this light? </div></div>
We all have our personal vices.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If the bible was written in the 1940's and revered as the ironclad law of god 1000's of years from then, the bible would very likely, clearly state that "african americansare inferior to whites".</div></div>
It probably wouldn't have. If you look at the status quo of the times and then look at the message of the divine revelations they actually challanged the status quo.

 

That did make me lol... But I would like to mention she is Jewish and they do not use the NKJV or anything from the New Testament at all. Nothing in the Old Testament is practiced anymore and its purposes are pretty much historical only. The Hebrew Bible contains quite a bit from the Old Testament and of course more. But they are not the same books at all.

I just wanted to point that out.

 

Awwwwwww. Auvii, what a buzzkill : ) Thanks Myke. That is the kind of biting sarcasm that i might just quote at somebody.

 

This is the argument against literal interpretation? What would the figurative interpretation be then? It looks more like an argument against relying on scripture in general.

Those laws are obviously literal in nature.

Anyways I don't believe in the authenticity of the old or new testament, but even so, people take scripture out of context and mock it while ignoring some of the nuances.

(and to my knowledge jews do believe in the validity of those laws in this day and time, but lack of proper leadership prevents them from implementing them.

 

yeah and I'm damn glad I live in a country where they don't have the leadership that lets them do so. I'm not about to get killed for working on the Sabbath fuck that shit.

Every-time I look at this thread I tell myself I'm not going to say anything because there isn't a point, but I keep getting too riled up by some of the what I consider blindness. With this many people from this many different countries and background there is bound to be some serious political disagreements. Religious zealots just always rub me the wrong way (not directing this at anyone in particular I just hate zealots)

 

No, that's what Cuz said, hence why you took the time to distinguish his suggestion from what you were suggesting: "Or you could do as cuz suggested and make marriage just the ceremony." BTW, I think you ought to look up the definition of your login name . . .

Happy friend makes a good point about the wedge issue, but naming conventions aren't just about "hurt feelings" (notice that any hurt feelings are on both sides of this issue); naming conventions have legal effect. Right now, "marriage" has more legal rights than "civil union". Effectively changing every instance of marriage to "or civil union" in both state and federal law is a lot more complicated than federally recognizing marriage regardless of gender.

Sp00n, the media _does_ spend a great deal of its time screaming about heterosexuality. Does that offend you too? Are you a prude, or just a homophobe?

 

I laughed my ass off until I realized you're probably serious, and that makes me scared. How the hell can you even write shit like this?

 

wow. just wow. educate much? did you know that heterosexuals (wow a hetero with HIV) also have used their tainted blood as a weapon of abuse? the hetero "community" has it's own massive number of HIV infections but faggots certainly are a much neater target aren't they?

also, YOU don't have to be all in our faces with your sexuality as pretty much every form of media is dedicated to it. Take a seat and relax, the heavy lifting is being done for you. Good thing, I don't think you've the strength to lift up your side of the argument.

 

real and serious question. If you don't believe in the authenticity of either testament what informs your faith?

GE

 

The Qur'an

 

ah, okay - that makes more sense now. I've barely touched this thread but jumped in after seeing it in IRC.
thanks.

 

Just to point out, I don't believe in authenticity of their current states. But believing in the messages that Moses and Jesus brought is an article of faith in Islam.

From your earlier post it seems you put some value in scripture and are somewhat religious. So would you have told Moses "fuck that shit" when he enforced this law?

Whether that rule was abrogated or not (I believe it was) it was still a Divine law revealed to Moses. I would think someone with faith would have some respect for such things.

 

Weren't we talking about politics?

Anyway, here's McCain interested in Obama's can.

http://www.reuters.com/news/pictures/searchpopup?picId=6401374

 

If god needs to kill someone he'll do it his own damn self, humans kill each other easily enough in gods infinite wisdom I doubt he'd tell us to kill his creations unless for food. If god wants the guy dead I'm sure he'll strike him with lightning or strike him down with some illness. He's quite capable of handling his own dirty work.

I don't believe in everything the scripture says because I think a lot of things were input by humans like rules that don't really make any real logical sense. I understand the whole argument of god working is mysterious ways but I also believe in his infinite wisdom he'd know how to break it down for us to understand. Like c'mon the guy can't dumb it down for us he did make us after-all and should know how to get through to us clearly. Hence why when I see contradicting or just plain nonsense rules I chalk that up to humans screwed up the scripture.

And yes if Moses was messing with the scripture (which he didn't write the book so some person he wrote it F'd with it and I'd cuss him out yes) I'd cus them out too

I believe all the stuff about fearing god and the devil and hell all that jazz was made just to control people. It just doesn't quite make sense for a loving ever forgiving god to damn people for all eternity that just doesn't seem to make sense given his other qualities. I believe that the most basic more or less universally said things across many religions is what god was trying to tell us folks and all that extra stuff that makes them different from each other was just human baggages messing up the good stuff. Because the overall basic message is very clear but things get muddy when humans mess around with it and bury the message of pretty much try your best to be a good person and don't try to F with other people's shitz.

I'm a baptist/congegationalist but I have some serious buddhist influences that I feel give me a better scope of things, but that's just my personal opinion.


P.S. I don't think god gets pissed when I curse, who the hell decided what words were curses anyway? Curse words offend people not god, why would he give them to us to say in the first place if it pissed him off so much.

I basically think God put things here for us to use and learn from. It isn't always used properly because humans fuck with it for their own means because we have free will. Free will is a bitch aint it. lol

 

It's not His dirty work when he prescribes laws and punishments for us to enforce.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't believe in everything the scripture says because I think a lot of things were input by humans like rules that don't really make any real logical sense. I understand the whole argument of god working is mysterious ways but I also believe in his infinite wisdom he'd know how to break it down for us to understand. Like c'mon the guy can't dumb it down for us he did make us after-all and should know how to get through to us clearly. Hence why when I see contradicting or just plain nonsense rules I chalk that up to humans screwed up the scripture.

And yes if Moses was messing with the scripture (which he didn't write the book so some person he wrote it F'd with it and I'd cuss him out yes) I'd cus them out too</div></div>You say you understand the argument that He works in mysterious ways but at the same time your criteria of false/authentic is simply a comparison to your own personal world view. Ants don't understand the laws of physics either, doesn't mean they don't abide by them.

People before us felt the same way, so He sent Prophets and Messengers to clear it up.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I believe all the stuff about fearing god and the devil and hell all that jazz was made just to control people. It just doesn't quite make sense for a loving ever forgiving god to damn people for all eternity that just doesn't seem to make sense given his other qualities. I believe that the most basic more or less universally said things across many religions is what god was trying to tell us folks and all that extra stuff that makes them different from each other was just human baggages messing up the good stuff. Because the overall basic message is very clear but things get muddy when humans mess around with it and bury the message of pretty much try your best to be a good person and don't try to F with other people's shitz.</div></div>He is more than being the Merciful. He is the King of Kings, the Creator. He holds authority over each and everything.

People will agree that people need to obey their mother, their father (what other human being loves you more and is more merciful to you than your mother and father), their boss, their army superior, their president etc, or face the consequences. But then deny that the One who created everything, your parents, boss, etc. holds an even greater authority over them?

that doesn't make sense to me.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm a baptist/congegationalist but I have some serious buddhist influences that I feel give me a better scope of things, but that's just my personal opinion. </div></div>
And you accused me of picking and choosing.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">P.S. I don't think god gets pissed when I curse, who the hell decided what words were curses anyway? Curse words offend people not god, why would he give them to us to say in the first place if it pissed him off so much.</div></div>It offends God because it is the tongue He created you're using for vulgarity. And because it offends people, offending people is not something that earns you cool points with God.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I basically think God put things here for us to use and learn from. It isn't always used properly because humans fuck with it for their own means because we have free will. Free will is a bitch aint it. lol </div></div>It'd be easier being like the angels, unable to transgress and thus always being safe. But alas, this is how we were created and the good and bad choices we make a difference when we will be held accountable for our actions.

If a mod wants to close this, split it off, delete my posts. Go 'head. The topic is called politics but I guess I hijacked it.