Please help with Frame Data

That sounds like a good idea, I am for it!

 

My biggest recommendation is a re-vamp of the notes sections for moves.

We all know there are a lot of BS moves in VF, in which I mean moves which look like one thing but evade/beat moves that it looks like it wouldn't;you all know what I mean.

What I would love is for the notes section to let us know "such and such move will duck under/hop over moves" If the frames it did this at were also there that would be awesome too but now I'm just dreaming

you're right it is a cheat sheet, what's wrong with that though? That's like getting ready for an exam by not studying claiming all the time you spent in class should be enough preparation. Sure you could just rely on that, but why not go the lil extra mile and actually prepare for the exam with drawing up some notes to help consolidate that info.

Just my way of thinking anyway.

 

Didn't say there was anything wrong with it. For me though part of the fun
was that you had to figure it out on your own back in the day. Rarely in my neck of the woods did someone sit on a site with hundreds of other cats learning hitboxes/frames etc. In fact people used to keep shit on the hush. It made things
interesting.

The cookie, was actually finding how you did that move as much as it was
HOW you could use the move. I know, I'm a sentimental old fool but the past
arcade scene was badass.

People used to actually frown at people that brought faqs to the arcade, but
although they sought got an advantage. It wasn't THAT big because you couldn't
practice it at home. You'd have to learn it while playing other people...anyway....
I digress.

 

Oh yeah man I remember when everything was hush. If you figured something out before your friends did and they asked how you beat em you'd respond "i'm not telling"

Oh the hubris of youth

 

Out of curiosity, what do JP players use as a source for frame data? I know the scene is bigger over there, is it just a known topic within the arcades?

 

They have their own sites too. Shit there's even a version of youtube for them, explains why it's harder for us to come by their videos as easily as I'd like it to be.

 

Afaik all frame data comes from Japanese site called 1/60 or something, they test things out with programmable controllers. One can only imagine how much work it is..

 

So where can you get the Black Book? More importantly whats the story behind that. I am aware of the authors, or most at least since they are listed, but is it a published guide, like the one you can purchase for xbox to date?

 

I hope the book for R is Red /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

there is still considerable stuff not posted yet from the blackbook, like eileen stratagy, only her vs stuff.

I'm sure I've discovered most of it already but who knows there's always the chance for a gem.


edit: not trying to bitch about it, just stating a fact

 

Thanks for the reply, was beginning to think the "Black Book" was just at term given to data from the best of the best. Oh and you don't have to sell the site to me, I think VFDC has already got me hooked heh /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

Myke - my suggestion for updating the Frames Guide would be similar to what was posted above. Basically an "entry point" into the whole concept of frames.

For me, the entire notion of Frames is very overwhelming, and it's very difficult to figure out "where do I even begin using this?". Some advice for the best way to start applying the knowledge of frame rates to your game would be very helpful to beginners like myself. As it currently stands, I reviewed the frames and then thought "Sweet Zondors! There's no way I'll ever be able to hold this information in my head", and just moved from there to playing the game and using intuition rather than strict math (I'm not making the claim that this is better; I'd rather have the complete understanding of the game mechanics that come from understanding frames).

 

Have you read this?

http://virtuafighter.com/wiki/doku.php?id=vf5:system_part_2#strategy

 

Yup, and I think it's well written. What I'm talking about though is basically something saying "Okay, that's a good intro to the _mechanics_ of frames, but here's the very first place to start applying them to your actual game plan", and then go on to explain that..

Eg,

"Brad's fastest mid is his 6P elbow at 14f. With this information, we can determine that most high-punches will knock him on block, but, etc."

I guess to me it's similar to the whole notion of good effective movement in a game. The FAQ and details do a good job of explaining how to do a box-step. However, I don't really understand the _why_ behind this. Why would I want to know how to do this technique? How do I actually _apply_ this movement to my game plan when I'm actually playing.

Does that make sense?

 

I think the very first place to start applying them to your actual game plan is already written in there:

"look at your character's command list. Sort by clicking on grd. Find moves that are -5 on grd. Go to dojo, set ai to guard, mid or throw. Do one of your -5 moves . . . . "

I.E. your move was just blocked, train yourself to be able to fuzzy guard. Ditto for throw escape in guaranteed throw situations( I've added notes for those to the wiki page ).

It sounds like you may be more interested in applying frames on offense. Aside from basic near-universal stuff (you just blocked opponents move, so you can do an elbow), this is kind of character-specific. There's a fair amount of this already written down for kage, jeff, and a few others; take a look at their wiki pages for an example. There's also basic, but solid, stuff in the brad wiki.

Most importantly, figure out situations on your own. Here's an example: If you do slipping left K, you will have at least +5 advantage even if your opponent blocks. If you are certain they are going to try to /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, what's the nastiest thing you can do to them? You should be able to try this out in the dojo, just set the AI to guard and low punch.

 

Yup, this is definitely good advice.

I'm not trying to debate the issue, just offer some feedback from the point of view of a beginner who has read through the Brad wiki, and who still found the notion a little bit overwhelming. You can feel free to ignore that feedback - my skin is thick .

--Adam