Play Wolf (and lose) the Destro way!

again sure it sounds great on paper, but what wolf player pokes with 6p,p no delay . . . . . . You can talk about frames all day, but the application is worthless. Wolf is a yomi character anyways, not a frames poker.

Yomi > Pencil VF

delayed giant swing for the win.

 

pencil VF > yomi
Yomi > pencil VF

pencil VF is what beats yomi
and Yomi is what outguesses pencil VF

the only thing which bridges the gap between guesses and
delays are exact frames~ but the only thing which beats
exact frames is to expect it.


P.S ~ stratergy isnt Yomi~ wolf has flow charts and many many many techniques to him. anybody who keeps saying that you just guess all day with wolf is probably getting owned and needs to study him better.

p.p.s ~ f+p on it's own is a 15 frame poke.

 

Yomi isnt guessing at all, its setting up your opponent. If you played wolf by hitting all your guarenteed frame damage, low frame pokes against a player you can EQTEG or QTEG at -8 on high level play, im sure you're not gonna win many games. You gotta yomi for that delayed throw. Frames might be more useful for other characters like pai, jacky, lau who can get signifigant damage in guarenteed situations, but wolf gets p,k or screw hook, lol. I dont think thats gonna win you anything. Frames are rules for the game, not a way to play it.

In high level play, everyone knows all the frames per character so it still breaks down into a yomi game. Itabashi and Fuudo won on pure yomi using low tier characters. I dont think i see anyone winning tournaments on frames other than the exception of Napoleon Jacky. But thats when the game was still new.

frames basically exist to kill noobs, admit it, we dont like playing vf because we like to crunch numbers in our head.

anyways about the 6pp no delay - i just find it silly that people are arguing and gloating about whose right for a move that practically no one uses in a real game situation.

 

i didnt say to base your game around either, i said what beats what~

yomi [is] guessing, infact it's exactly that~ "setting up your opponent" by doing something beyond the situation.

delay attacking is yomi if you guess that the opponent will ETEG~
but delayed attacking will be beaten by a jab~ because to delay you have subtracted frames from the situation which is initially locked by nitaku.

inwhich case exact frames will beat this situation.

its the same as a backdash mid,~ you are guessing that the opponent will do a LP or evade ~ you will be beaten if the opponent then attacks with a slow launcher or long range.

that long range will then be beaten by an exact frame jab.

it is guessing an exact situation, and then guessing the guess using frames. and no it's not character specific

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">but wolf gets p,k or screw hook, lol. I dont think thats gonna win you anything.</div></div>

p,k is my most used reverse nitaku because it sets up the screw hook / KS game / delay attack game.~

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">frames basically exist to kill noobs, admit it, we dont like playing vf because we like to crunch numbers in our head.</div></div>

exactly why frames are used to beat a situation beyond the frame boundries of nitaku~ that's what noobs do.


p.s ~ (pai is one of the least frame-based characters in the game rofl)

 

dont you need yomi to have frames own in certain situations anyways? If your yomi is poor you can even lose at +6 everytime.

like for example

"p,k is my most used reverse nitaku because it sets up the screw hook / KS game / delay attack game.~ "
reverse nitaku and delay attack is yomi . . ., like if i can yomi that as your options, i can evade to the right side and throw escape everytime, or ARE to evade catch throws also. Since wolf has no full circulars pre-vf5, pretty much screwed.

Tsuchikumo and Akuma pai shows me otherwise for frame happy pai play. King pai was quite something else though, and of course took him farther than either of them.

 

Yomi > Frames definitely.

You can't win with wolf playing frames, at least it's very very difficult.

 

i've just stated both work in your game hand in hand, but you need to know that frames beat yomi as well as yomi beats frames.

reverse nitaku is yomi~ which is why it will be beaten by an exact frame mid.


pai is relient on evasive move proporties, which means she negates the frame mark because her defensive game is based apon moves which duck elbows and other attack classes/

if wolf were to get screw hook nitaku, pai would beat it with with d,b+P instead of the usual system measures.

 

srider ~ flow charts are frames,

you need to poke back to gain advantage in an abare situation~

if you dont you will get abolished~

 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">reverse nitaku is yomi~ which is why it will be beaten by an exact frame mid.</div></div>

thats poor yomi if you know you're going to eat an exact frame mid, or the other player yomied your reverse nitaku. Either way we're talking yomi here not frames. Frames is just the rulebook, yomi is when you actually play VF. Frames is nothing more than groundwork. Its funny because everything you talk about is dependant on yomi situations. Frames only win in tekken 4 and doa 3 elbow spamming.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">pai is relient on evasive move proporties, which means she negates the frame mark because her defensive game is based apon moves which duck elbows and other attack classes </div></div>

Those options are just what makes pai a "stronger" character. If you played a pure frames game with pai vs other characters, Pai would come out top a majority of times. Im not suprised shes S rank in VF5.

 

Exactly!

Wolf's best pokes are P and LP. You are not going to poke with 1P, 3P, SS, 6P, 6K, or anything. You are going to P and LP against an abare opponent. Due to the now fixed screwhook, you can try using that as well if you can pull it off quick enough.

If wolf's opponent is a fast abare poker (like pai), you will have a hard time utilizing the majority of wolf's movelist.

You simply need good defense and patience, and above all, good yomi to go for PGS/LPC/Low throw.

 

I'm going to add another thing... maybe people are forgetting this...

As a wolf player, good defense it of the utmost importance. You are going to be fuzzy guarding... ALOT.

From crouching, you simply can't correctly buffer moves like 1P and 3P. You either get low p, or 2_3P. So those are not good pokes. I can see using 3P after high guarding something, but you would only do this for specific yomi reasons. You wouldn't do this after blocking low kick cause you get screwhook or stunner for free. 6P mC is not something you would use after blocking low kicks due to speed and damage. After evades, you wouldn't use 6P either due to speed and the fact that 4P and low throw exists. This is why I say that 6P is now more useful as a long range punisher cause you can do the P+K follow up for a knock down, although it's still better if you can do 4K due to the faster exe speed.

I'd like to use the full range of wolf's movelist more too, but it's simply not realistic if you are playing to win against decent players who know how to punish wolf's bigger moves.

 

RE Wolf and poking...he does have poking attacks, such as /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif BUT the question is why would you want to poke with Wolf? Wolf is built for high damage guessing games.

Also, the reason you don't see /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif used in counter situation is because stunner is usually a better choice, and if the 15 frames matter that much, I usually prefer screwhook anyway (to get some excellent okizeme games).

 

Ice, I agree completely.

 

If I use /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, it's because I want to stop the oppt right in front of me with a Mid that has better range than /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif. That's about it, really. I like using /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, but it's not for Damage, not for Punishing, it's to turn the flow of the match my way, by stopping the oppt, then playing a game; the kind of big damage game Jeff is talking about.

Wolf has a lot of moves like this: /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is similar, but pushes them away/staggers, which sets up different games. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df_.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif all set up nasty damage games as well. But, I find that it's REALLY important to not become predictable with these setups. If you can keep them guessing after gaining advantage with any of these, half the life bar can be yours shortly.

Kiwe: I think it's understandable that people might not know about /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif on mC, I'd also probably never use it like that. But, I'm the kind of Wolf player that likes to take my chances with Higher, non-guaranteed damage; IE trying to nail a low throw after a low attack is guarded, or using low /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif to stand them up, then going for Nitaku. I'd never go for /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif either when it was guaranteed.

that's just me though

 

6K+G is one of the most useful and often overlooked moves that wolf has. I love using it, and it's very very useful as a safe yomi device.

Akiralove: Yeah, 6P is very good to disrupt the opponent and changing the pace of the game, I use it to a similar fashion.

I kind of don't like the fact that 4K pushes them that far away, but that's only on counter hit. It's definitely still one of the best mid to long range safe mids that Wolf has to pressure and close in distance.

The best flow chart that wolf has though.... it's still the trusty blocked lp -> screwhook, which is better now compared to evo due to the fixed properties of screwhook.

 

thats poor yomi if you know you're going to eat an exact frame mid, or the other player yomied your reverse nitaku. Either way we're talking yomi here not frames. Frames is just the rulebook, yomi is when you actually play VF. Frames is nothing more than groundwork. Its funny because everything you talk about is dependant on yomi situations. Frames only win in tekken 4 and doa 3 elbow spamming.</div></div>

what's poor is that first you state that reverse nitaku is yomi, and then you say it's "poor yomi"

reverse nitaku is yomi against a throw attempt when they know the opponent has exact frames to make 2 choices.

you are guessing that the opponent will throw you, so you react with an attack (or if they backdash attack instead to try their own yomi)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">pai is relient on evasive move proporties, which means she negates the frame mark because her defensive game is based apon moves which duck elbows and other attack classes </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Those options are just what makes pai a "stronger" character. If you played a pure frames game with pai vs other characters, Pai would come out top a majority of times. Im not suprised shes S rank in VF5. </div></div>

she's not frame based because she has a distinct advantage priority~ she jabs out of +2 nitaku, she hops low Ps with a 13 frame mid (not that hopping lows has anything to do with 13 frames), she has bd+p, d,b+p, d,b+k which all go through elbows and d,b+p goes through low P, rising palms and b+k negate elbows on open stance, bokutai sweep ducks mids, she's the perfect beginner character for these reasons. ~ if you like japanese player quotes, then KING (pai) also said she's not a frame character.

 

if you use delayed PGS and low throw on an abare opponent you will get owned~ what's to make them freeze, or duck with block?

you dont win back advantage with P, ~ P is an agressive poke, not a defensive poke.

low P screw hook is good defense and there is more

- b+k exactly the same proporties as kage's df+k
- d, df+p ~ on normal hit you get +1 ~ you can do LPC / screw hook or another choice.
on block you get -4, you can ARE reverse lariat.
- f+p no brainer

what your initial idea about wolf is very unstable, and seems your knowlege is full of questions and flaws rather than solutions and examinations. the only way you'd find wolf hard to use if you dont study the important areas. o__o

 

Yeah I suck, sorry. No more wolf advice from me.

 

because high damage guessing games is also high risk, you cant base an entire game around this and toss away the other~

f+PP is only good to get the garanteed string when you've thrown an opponent with db+p+g and they didnt ringout.

f+p on it's own is a very good poke~ and usually a safe round finisher~

 

srider, u dont suck ~

u just need to stop questioning ur own character

orelse ur just telling ppl how to attack u