Petition for lagless live play

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I have about 4k ranked matches on live, and it really looks like a gray indicator only means it has no info on the connection. Play a bunch of grays and then play a bunch of 1-bars and see what's worse. Most games with grays are good for me, whereas most 1-bars are junk. Plus you can easily get a full green match with someone who has porn torrents going nuts on his PC and causing massive hiccups for the whole match. Those are the people who should be beaten with a rubber Lion.

 

Re: Petition to change the speed of light

Who exactly are you petitioning? Other players? Sega? ISPs? The ghost of einstein?
Speed of light is a fact of life, online play will always be laggy ( and / or have rollbacks ala fps games / ggpo ).

Broadband is generally ASYMMETRICAL. I don't know about finland, but in the U.S., even if average broadband download speeds are in the 2mbps ~ 4mbps range depending on who you ask, average UPLOAD speeds are less than 500kbps.

The bandwidth of your connection (mbps) has nothing to do with how much latency you have (ping). There can be an indirect relationship when ISPs provide better quality of service for more expensive accounts, but there is no way VF5 over xbox live is saturating a 2mbps connection.

In short:
There will always be lag.
Beyond a small base level, the amount of lag has nothing to do with the mbps of your connection.

 

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif True enough on the porn torrent aspect - you must be an idiot to be playing an online game while downloading shit Again, I think we've established that the box-thingy is ...well...just a box-thingy :l

 

Re: Petition to change the speed of light

KoD, those are all valid points, except for the fact that that "small baseline" is exactly what I'm talking about: there are tons of players out there playing with way below 1mbps connections, at which point the upload factor you mentioned comes into play. And I think we've already established that a kazillion different things can affect lag. The question is: what can YOU do about it.

 

Re: Petition to change the speed of light

Dude, lag is part of the Online experience. Just like Child Support is to a single parent, can't escape it.

 

Re: Petition to change the speed of light

lol

 

Re: Petition to change the speed of light

Except for the fact that you pulled that "2mbps" baseline number out of your ass . . . the original xbox xbl was designed for 64 or 128k upload minimums.

Unless and until you've actually measured the bandwith usage of VF5, I'm saying you're wrong, and that latency problems dominate bandwith. I'm dropping from a 6mbit connection to a 1.5 mbit connection and fully expect the lag on xbl to get better, not worse.

 

Re: Petition to change the speed of light

Despite all the intricacies of bandwidth and latency, the idea of removing the lame box indicator and giving us a simple ping number would be awesome. They need to stop slacking and DO IT.

 

Re: Petition to change the speed of light

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They need to stop slacking and DO IT. </div></div>

And no doubt this is something so easy to do. Resources? No problem! Those guys at Sega do nothing, I'm sure. And updating VF5 on XBL is definitely high on their priority list.

I have never understood the average player thinking that changing/updating a game of any kind is something easy and cheap to do. It would need to be:

1. Business cased and then proposed.
2. Business requirements would need to be created.
3. Coding design drafted and then approved.
4. Resources requested, approved, and then assigned.
5. Coding done, reviewed, and approved.
6. Testing protocol created, reviewed, and then approved.
7. Testing executed and summarized for approval.
8. Download package and installation designed and approved.
9. Moved to production and validated on live systems.
10. Final release.

Stop slacking? Are you 7?

I liked Srider's comment. If lag bothers you enough to start a petition, then perhaps you need to find some local competition and play offline.

 

Re: Petition to change the speed of light

Maybe i'm just lucky, but I don't pay much heed to the boxes (already stated they are about worthless) but i only run into laggy connections about once a blue moon, well less than 10% of the time. It doesn't seem to be a huge issue to me (tho it is really frustrating when it does happen.) But like the person above, I just pull before the fight is really under way. using Lei Fei, so I spam PPP PPP PPP, to make sure i get a lead in the round, than i'm out. Who can complain about someone dropping when they are beating you.

 

Re: Petition to change the speed of light

It was actually a more of a jest then a serious statement. But since you move to insulting rather then laughing I will throw some counters...

The fact is they are slacking. Releasing a game on a system and then leaving it with the bare minimum of updates it slacking. It's Sega, not some home brew company. Do I need to go into their history? They have the money and time to do whats needed. What it comes down to is not lack of money or lack of time but the fact that they see no real gross profit from the situation. I would go so far as to say that the release of VF on xbox was a just a way to profit from MS attempt to obtain a main stream fighter on their system. They obviously intend to destroy PS3 so having yet another "exclusive" ripped from Sony's hands is a plus. Sega most likely said sure why not and agreed to jump on the xbox for a quick buck.

So yeah they gave us ONE update, following with a great statement of nothing else in the future. But I am sure this is because of their lack of money, pshh.

Oh and implementing a ping scale is not hard. Its a system that has been built since what 95'? It has NOTHING to do with the game mechanics, its a simple update on the server side. SO yes they need to stop slacking and at least take the time to make minor fixes like that.

Like I said it was more a of a jest comment, I love Sega and VF even more. But if your going to flame me and act as if Sega works in the favor of the American shores, then I am sorry, you are wrong on many levels.

 

Re: Petition to change the speed of light

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Petition for lagless live play</div></div>
I lol'd

I also lol'd at anyone who said they had lagfree matches on Live.

 

Re: Petition to change the speed of light

I usually get the worst lag in full green bar matches than I do against grey ones. The reason -as stated before- are people over wireless connections and/or downloading shit on their PCs at the same time.

This game is as lag-free as technically possible. Sega have really done an amazing job here, I can't stress it enough. Anyone playing PES 2008 (or should I say POS 2008!) would know what I'm talking about! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif

 

Re: Petition to change the speed of light

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The fact is they are slacking. Releasing a game on a system and then leaving it with the bare minimum of updates it slacking.</div></div>

Based on? What are you using to benchmark their 'slacking'?


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do I need to go into their history? They have the money and time to do whats needed.</div></div>

And you know this for a fact because you are currently reviewing their annual report? Sega was in the red for many years, and this was well publicized. But to think that either you or I have any knowledge of the money that Sega has to invest in upgrading already released games would be ridiculous.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What it comes down to is not lack of money or lack of time but the fact that they see no real gross profit from the situation. </div></div>

Regardless of the fact that we know nothing of their money situation or the resources that could be available to actually put an upgrade together over the next few months even, by simply stating that their analysis is likely indicating that there's NO PROFIT for such an upgrade is enough to end the debate.

No profit = no point. This is Sega, as you say, not some Home Brew. So why, if there's no profit, would they EVER consider doing this? To appease the complaints of players? Yeah, the mail bag is really heavy and can barely fit through the door.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would go so far as to say that the release of VF on xbox was a just a way to profit from MS attempt to obtain a main stream fighter on their system. They obviously intend to destroy PS3 so having yet another "exclusive" ripped from Sony's hands is a plus. Sega most likely said sure why not and agreed to jump on the xbox for a quick buck.</div></div>

You would go this far, to produce a statement that is based on absolutely no knowledge of their business mindset, whatsoever. You sir, fail at Business 101. LOL. "Obviously intend to destroy PS3..." Wow.

 

Re: Petition to change the speed of light

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Based on? What are you using to benchmark their 'slacking'?</div></div>

I answered that, but to be more precise, look at any other major game on Xbox. They constantly receive updates and even interaction with the devs.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And you know this for a fact because you are currently reviewing their annual report? Sega was in the red for many years, and this was well publicized. But to think that either you or I have any knowledge of the money that Sega has to invest in upgrading already released games would be ridiculous.</div></div>

Sega was in the red nearly 10 years ago only on their hardware size. The production of all their hardware was a failure however the software side has always been top tier. Now more so then ever. They are a HUGE corporation. Their annual report is of no concern in this topic anyhow, its one game. Its also not a game update as I stated. Its a server side update that has no relevance to game play mechanics. To spell that out since it was not understood before, ITS CHEAP.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Regardless of the fact that we know nothing of their money situation or the resources that could be available to actually put an upgrade together over the next few months even, by simply stating that their analysis is likely indicating that there's NO PROFIT for such an upgrade is enough to end the debate.


No profit = no point. This is Sega, as you say, not some Home Brew. So why, if there's no profit, would they EVER consider doing this? To appease the complaints of players? Yeah, the mail bag is really heavy and can barely fit through the door. </div></div>

Why, because its a game that people care about. Its Sega, a software company that depends on its customers. You can stand for that sort of attitude, "fuck the little guy", all you want. I believe in the customer base and that to me is successful business.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would go so far as to say that the release of VF on xbox was a just a way to profit from MS attempt to obtain a main stream fighter on their system. They obviously intend to destroy PS3 so having yet another "exclusive" ripped from Sony's hands is a plus. Sega most likely said sure why not and agreed to jump on the xbox for a quick buck.</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You would go this far, to produce a statement that is based on absolutely no knowledge of their business mindset, whatsoever. You sir, fail at Business 101. LOL. "Obviously intend to destroy PS3..." Wow. </div></div>

Its called going outside of the box. There is a reason Sega made the move to xbox live after making the strong statement of there never being online for VF5. At least I can come up with some sort of reason. Obviously Sega will not release the real reasoning, but jeez fuck me for thinking of WHY. Please show me where in business 101 it says to eliminate peripheral thought. The comment about the PS3 was regarding its market. Apparently this is a wow worthy comment.


The argument is getting off topic anyhow. Your being a complete ass. Almost as if you ARE Sega and find it offensive that we propose a small fix. The solution to any problem is not to ignore it. Its not some secret that if we wanted to ignore online lag we just don't play. I see Japan getting these version updates and cool item sets well before we ever see them. So how is it out of line to just talk about a possible fix. Shit not even a fix! simple feature that enables the users to make a better choice on who they play! The topic was about lag, not the lack of all the awesome features that the east get, which cost money and time and I understand that and agree with you on that side. However, Its nowhere out of the line to bring up possible fixes to a problem that everyone experiences at least once. Apparently its blasphemes to speak against Sega and uneducated to speak of a fix to a common annoyance. Forgive me.

 

Re: Petition to change the speed of light

I never learn. I knew posting a topic that all gamers should seemingly agree upon would still bring the douches and besserwisser's (for the illiterate: know-it-alls) out of the woodwork, and I did it anyway. If you take the word "petition" seriously in such a context, then you're an idiot and you deserve to die. What? I'm going to collect names for lag free gameplay at the local supermarket? I mean, this isn't nuclear physics I'm talking here. It's in instances such as this that I lose yet another bit of faith I still have in humanity, a little bit like when I meet people who watched Joe Millionaire, like Shakira, and listen to Christian Rock, because it's cool. There are ways of arguing that black is white, after all.

I told myself I was going to remain diplomatic about this despite a strong inclination to do just the opposite, and the latter sentiment has now taken hold of me. Seriously, arguing for something that's as plain as day and making it an issue of delicate intricacies makes my head hurt. At least there were a few good and civil comments in this thread before the douches sat in. Let me point this out to you (and yes, I realize the irony of stooping down to "your" level here, you dipshits): you don't have to agree with what is being said, but you don't have to be a jerk about it either. I don't know who raises mannerless douches such as these, but they shouldn't be allowed to be parents in the first place.

I hereby resign myself from this thread. I need to do something less painful than read these idiotic replies (barring those from Auvii and a few others), like stick my dick in a cheese grater.

 

Re: Petition to change the speed of light

Auvii - here's the whole crux of the issue. People seem to believe that because they bought the game and pay for their XBL account, that Sega owes them something. That the upgrades and fixes and tweaks and toodles the fanbase comes up with are somehow endowed to the players. Quite frankly, not unlike a massive portion of the WoW players in the world, this way of thinking is out to lunch.

We could ramble on and on about what we do and don't like about the game. And we could curse that the timely manner in which we see changes to the game is lacking. But the bottom line is that it's just not in the cards.

Personally, having a ping indicator, albeit a useful tool, is not going to make me want to play more than I do now, nor will it convince my casual VF friends to get an XBL account and start playing more seriously. Item Packs that reflect the Version D/E arcade experience is something that I would argue would.

Sega America is arguably one of the worst supporters for any of the games they license from Sega of Japan. Why? To be honest, I have no clue. I can only speculate that it's because they are a glorified sales force and licensee of software that's developed by SoA and the communication between the two is minimal at best.

 

Re: Petition to change the speed of light

Funny, it makes my head hurt when people post up blatant misinformation. If you're looking for a bunch of "wow, that's so true" replies, next time post something that gamers actually do seemingly agree upon. When you post demands based on ideas that have already been discredited (namely, more bandwidth == less lag && grey bar == laggy connection), you're going to get called out, and rightfully so. . .

 

Re: Petition to change the speed of light

OH FUCK YEAH MAN!

You convinced me! You are right!!!!!

They need to FUCKING CHANGE THE BOXES TO NUMBERSSS!!!

I learned it my CS class, numbers is faster than drawing boxes. That way the lag will be GONE!

They need to stop slacking and DO IT! shit... Where do I sign this petition...

 

Re: Petition to change the speed of light

So now we've moved on to outright lying... hurray! I think I own about 10 games on discs, and about 10 arcade games right now... and I've had to download an update for a grand total of 2 of them. The first was VF5 (hey look, they're already ahead of the curve), and the second was the "major" game SmashTV (Big Money, Big Prizes!!! I love it!!!) (<== I literally bought the game just for that sound effect;.

Llanfair and KoD have this thread on lockdown, ditto to everything they've said.

Oh, and to everyone asking for a ping counter... remember that all the matchmaking and whatnot is done on Microsoft's servers, because it's an XBL game. I don't know what the standards are... but it really wouldn't surprise me if XBL enforced use of a simpler system like the connection bar icons. It's actually non-obvious to understand how ping effects your connection. I have no idea how much lag is "acceptable" in VFs netcode, and I'm sure none of you do either... I'm much happier having them try to estimate "good" or "bad" for me, even if they seem to suck at it, then for me to need to play 50 games and judge the lag myself before I have any idea what the numbers mean.